Choosing destroy,control or synthesis is sadistic? I would like to know how choosing refuse is better than destroy, control or synthesis.
Simple. It isn't.
I wonder why the Catalyst even say "Wake up. There's a much more appropriate greeting:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=SH8wDkqA_50
'it' didn't give you any choices. The ancient super-weapon constructed by the allied races of the galaxy did. What'd you expect, to save the galaxy by 'yelling'? Good luck with that. You were dealt your hand, you didn't like it....and if you didn't play it, well, that's your own stubborn and selfish fault. Like I said, you wanted to destroy the Reapers your way or you were never going to be happy.
I didn't have to clear anything up, Iakus. You're blatantly obvious. Your sig as well as basically every post you make when it comes to all aspects of the ending 'clears it up' for anyone who hasn't been on the BSN in the last 2 years.
The ancient superweapon didn't give any choices either. It was all Bioware. They dealt the hand. They stacked the deck. And they got puzzled when people called didn't like playing a rigged game.
And I hardly call it selfish to call them on it
Yes. so... the ending sucked for most players.
But, it's over. Finito. no muy bueno. el fin. Hasta luego and adios.
Some like it. Some tolerated it. Some hated it. ... None of us (here @ BSN) can change what was done.
Why bicker? It's not anyone here's fault. Everyone has a right to "feel" however they want about the ending AND everyone has the right to come on BSN and express their ire or euphoria over the game. Within Bioware forum guidlines of course.
Not use it to troll the already angry audience, I'll tell you that much.
Kinda hard to do when a large group of the audience takes offense to getting anything different than what they ask for.
And having been part of the unhappy (wouldn't go as far as "angry," though) audience pre-EC myself, I can't say I found any of its content offensive to my general feelings toward the first endings. It actually felt like a pretty gracious gesture by them, especially with the post-Stargazer message. To that end, being "angry" already kind of precludes you from being in any rational state-of-mind.
Who do you think would pick refuse but those who already hated the endings to begin with? the ones who spend Maker-knows how long shooting the Catalyst rather than make that sadistic decision?
EC not allowing you to shoot the Catalyst without consequence makes a hell of a lot more sense.
Do you expect the thing not to take offense to a clear message of violence/hostility you're sending it?
Just seems like more expectations not in-touch with (in-game) reality, like anything other than total defeat from consciously refusing.
Yes. so... the ending sucked for most players.
But, it's over. Finito. no muy bueno. el fin. Hasta luego and adios.
Some like it. Some tolerated it. Some hated it. ... None of us (here @ BSN) can change what was done.
Why bicker? It's not anyone here's fault. Everyone has a right to "feel" however they want about the ending AND everyone has the right to come on BSN and express their ire or euphoria over the game. Within Bioware forum guidlines of course.
For me, it's a matter of MENext. What's Bioware going to do to bring back everyone they alienated? Why should I get invested in the Mass Effect universe again when they've made it clear they can do whatever the frak they want to my character?
Hmmm... Hate is a strong word. What I feel is that they took an easy path out of the story in an attempt to wrap up everything. However, they were going for something significant and always were, I just don't think they were prepared for what their decision would entail... Let me explain what I think...
I think they certainly achieved the significant ending, as is evidenced by the fact that it is still hotly discussed even now. On a personal level I dislike the ending, but I accept it for one reason... The folks at Bioware have spent 6-7 years telling the story of Shepard and their universe is so much bigger than one hero. Yes your compatriots in the game are heroes too but the unifying force was Shepard.
In order for the game to grow it really does have to escape the confines of the exploration of a single character, no matter how painful letting go can be. For those of us who knew Shepard from the start in 2007 I think there was a lack of appreciation in Bioware for just how important Shepard is to us. It seems obvious to me (and I can only speak for me) that they wrote a game with decisions that invest us, a story that invests us, relationships that invest us in a universe that captures our imaginations along with our hearts. We grew up with Shepard, the stories told are ours, so in the final moment when Shepard has no way out and you know the only option ahead is an end, there is going to be a degree of grief associated with that one moment. I think there has been a lack of appreciation for this, for the people who grew up with Shepard, with the Normandy and the heroes on-board. To know that this is an end, that there is no going back that she is gone, that those blue babies will never know their father, that the home on Rannoch will never have a Shepard living there, that Garrus will not know the warm touch of Shepard's hand beyond that point is tragic in a game (ME3) that is one very long goodbye.
As tragic as it is I actually agree with the drivers behind it, though the execution was about as graceful as slamming an asteroid into a Mass Relay. But the game would stagnate otherwise, trapped like Halo is trapped re-telling the one single story of the Master Chief, Cortana and whatever other threat that has to be addressed again, and again, and again, and again, and again. It's time for a fresh perspective, for a fresh outlook with fresh technology and while I still absolutely love playing the Mass Effect trilogy (that I have come to think of as The tragedy of Shepard) and every minute I spend in that universe is a very welcome and enjoyable one, I can't wait to see what comes next.
This time the technology available is superior, the capability to tell a sprawling epic is improved, the limitations on numbers of character models and texture space are not as significant; the future looks incredibly bright for the series. I can't wait to step back into that universe, with fresh textures, characters, locations and story. So raise the kinetic barriers, plot your course on the galaxy map and set for a new heading because ME4 is coming irrespective of that working title and I am genuinely excited.
I don't hate it at all, I think they did a lot of things well. Gameplay wise, it was the best of the trilogy.
Hmmm... Hate is a strong word. What I feel is that they took an easy path out of the story in an attempt to wrap up everything. However, they were going for something significant and always were, I just don't think they were prepared for what their decision would entail... Let me explain what I think...
I think they certainly achieved the significant ending, as is evidenced by the fact that it is still hotly discussed even now. On a personal level I dislike the ending, but I accept it for one reason... The folks at Bioware have spent 6-7 years telling the story of Shepard and their universe is so much bigger than one hero. Yes your compatriots in the game are heroes too but the unifying force was Shepard.
In order for the game to grow it really does have to escape the confines of the exploration of a single character, no matter how painful letting go can be. For those of us who knew Shepard from the start in 2007 I think there was a lack of appreciation in Bioware for just how important Shepard is to us. It seems obvious to me (and I can only speak for me) that they wrote a game with decisions that invest us, a story that invests us, relationships that invest us in a universe that captures our imaginations along with our hearts. We grew up with Shepard, the stories told are ours, so in the final moment when Shepard has no way out and you know the only option ahead is an end, there is going to be a degree of grief associated with that one moment. I think there has been a lack of appreciation for this, for the people who grew up with Shepard, with the Normandy and the heroes on-board. To know that this is an end, that there is no going back that she is gone, that those blue babies will never know their father, that the home on Rannoch will never have a Shepard living there, that Garrus will not know the warm touch of Shepard's hand beyond that point is tragic in a game (ME3) that is one very long goodbye.
As tragic as it is I actually agree with the drivers behind it, though the execution was about as graceful as slamming an asteroid into a Mass Relay. But the game would stagnate otherwise, trapped like Halo is trapped re-telling the one single story of the Master Chief, Cortana and whatever other threat that has to be addressed again, and again, and again, and again, and again. It's time for a fresh perspective, for a fresh outlook with fresh technology and while I still absolutely love playing the Mass Effect trilogy (that I have come to think of as The tragedy of Shepard) and every minute I spend in that universe is a very welcome and enjoyable one, I can't wait to see what comes next.
This time the technology available is superior, the capability to tell a sprawling epic is improved, the limitations on numbers of character models and texture space are not as significant; the future looks incredibly bright for the series. I can't wait to step back into that universe, with fresh textures, characters, locations and story. So raise the kinetic barriers, plot your course on the galaxy map and set for a new heading because ME4 is coming irrespective of that working title and I am genuinely excited.
Dragon Age has no problem having new protagonists in each game without railroading them into a particular fate though
I do agree with you with respect to Dragon Age. But the focus is different in that game. Mass Effect tells the story of Shepard, events unfold around him/her, characters are brought together by him/her which means that to suddenly drop the character or shuffle them off somewhere for the duration of a portion of the game would be just about as impactful as killing her off.
However it's an interesting point, I wonder how the story will be structured in the upcoming game whether it will be heavily focused on a primary character around which the events unfold or will there be increased flexibility. How will this work with the prospect of playable species? Of course we wont know for a little while longer, but its exciting.
I do agree with you with respect to Dragon Age. But the focus is different in that game. Mass Effect tells the story of Shepard, events unfold around him/her, characters are brought together by him/her which means that to suddenly drop the character or shuffle them off somewhere for the duration of a portion of the game would be just about as impactful as killing her off.
However it's an interesting point, I wonder how the story will be structured in the upcoming game whether it will be heavily focused on a primary character around which the events unfold or will there be increased flexibility. How will this work with the prospect of playable species? Of course we wont know for a little while longer, but its exciting.
Well, Baldur's Gate allowed multiple races, classes, and literately hundreds of hours over two games and two expansions.
Also ultimately allowed the Bhaalspawn to retire peacefully if you so desired.
My issues with ME3 that don't relate to the ending
-The atrocious amount of auto-dialogue that is out of character for many Shepards
-The inordinate amount of attention on Cerberus being bad guys, if they have to be antagonists fine, but they should not be a threat on par with the Reapers
-Lackluster missions in general, with the exception of Tuchunka and Priority Earth, none of the missions are that memorable, and those two are memorable for very different reasons
-The reduction in the amount of choices in the game, there is only one really big "morality" choice in ME3, the genophage cure
-The sidelining of ME2 characters
-Liara's content being so all encompassing that you start feeling like you are supposed to romance her and no one else
-The lack of impact from important choices prior in the series, Rachni and Collector Base particularly
I can go on but I'll leave it there for now
I hated it, never finished it but there wer countless other games that this hapened and it never got me to a red hot boiling fury.
I think it was the fact that from the very first moment Bioware acted like the fans that hated it were dumb, spoiled, etc... Then enough of us made a noise that they had to give us EC to shut us up. And still the Mass Effect poobahs acted like there is something wrong with people that disliked it.
Bottom line, if I buy a soap bar that is supposed to smell good, and when I get it I hate the smell, I don't want the soap making company telling me that I have a poor sense of smell. If tey do that I say *** you and never buy the soap again, end of story. I don't want fans of the smell calling me names because I can't appreciate that while in the past the soap had a lavender scent, the new citrus scent is the thing it should be and I'm an ignoramus for not liking it.
Fine, you like it you buy ME4,5 ..10 but I'm out. I'm still every bit a customer for the previous games as you and you don't have the right to try and mute me when I say they disappointed me. I moved over from the game and haven't played it since last year. So the bad ending is not annoying me anymore. What still annoys me and makes it very hard for me to even see a youtube of any Mass Effect content is the absurd way loyal customers of 3 games were treated by Bioware and some fanbois. THAT is what still makes me angry. The Me3 game ? dead and buried. My rights as a customer ? Trampled for over a year, non stop. Grrrr
But meh.. Nowadays I manage to filter out all ME3 just as I filtered out all the Iraq War cheering during the Bush years. And nowadays the people who rabidly told me GW Bush was perfect are hiding themselves from me.. We'll see what happens to the rabid ME3 fanbois 
It's a shame that BW showed such disrespect to the Mass Effect universe with the final game. They actually killed my excitement for ME3 when the demo came out and I witnessed the terrible autodialoge and poor writhing that took my Shepard and RP away from me. Everything went downhill from there. And the lore inconsistencies and the ending just finally killed it. I haven't played any ME game since 2012. And before that I had atleast 4 full playthroughs of ME1 and ME2 per year.
To sum it up - yes, I still hate ME3 in the guts. It took my favorite franchise of all time and buried it under a pile of s**t.
Nope, I used to once but not anymore.
I think the endings as it was never was what Bioware wanted. They made a brilliant game series and when they hit ME3 I just think they just couldn't come up with a good ending, hence they grabbed a deus Ex ending.
I've seen alot of rage but no one ever came up with a good ending. There were also so much variables. I just think they realised they could not pull it of.
So, I'm not mad at ya, BW.
Though autodialoge and all mission except Tuchanka and the Ghet-Quarian conflict felt rushed. Especially Priority Earth could be a whole lot more. I just wanted to see my assets in action. Jack, Wrex and so on charging in.
After playing one of the best game experiences ever, the complete lack of vision shown by the "endings" pretty much soured the taste of the whole series and made it feel like the creators were up against a deadline, and just picked random endings off a board.
To answer the original poster's question, I didn't hate the game, I was just terribly disappointed by the final 30 minutes.
They should have went with something along the lines of this:
Changes to Mass Effect 3 ending to make it more validating.
Upon arriving at the final dias in the Citadel, if you saved the Quarians and the Geth, Admiral Koris also makes it to the final room, she is also very damaged, and has a ripped suit. In the final room, you have Admiral Anderson, The Illusive Man, and Admiral Koris. The Illusive Man is not indoctrinated (That was such a cop out for his character), he had entirely too much will to be indoctrinated. The Leviathan VI shows up here rather than at the top, and the little kid VI explains the three choices.
The Illusive Man pushes for taking control of the Reapers, but using them to protect Humans, as it is the only way to ensure Humanity's survival. Admiral Anderson pushes for destroying the reapers, as it is the only way to ensure everyone's survival. Admiral Koris pushes for integration, after seeing the selflessness of Legion's sacrifice and her people's horrible treatment of the Geth, she feels solving the eternal struggle between synthetics and organics is the only way to ensure everyone's survival.
At this point Shepard is the deciding vote, and you have to choose which path to follow. Once you decide the path, you have to decide whether to do it yourself (Someone else might not get it right...), or allow the other advocate to Sacrifice themself.
After deciding, Shepard radios the Normandy for an evac, and the 3 not chosen characters return to the Normandy and escape through the relay just like the current ending.
If Shepard chooses to sacrifice himself/herself, you have a touching scene with your love interest, before the Normandy flies away.
If you let the Illusive Man take control of the reapers, he uses them to take control of the universe for Humans, and the reign is not very nice, and Humans become the overlords of the galaxy. If you don't choose him, he is taken into custody on the Normandy. If Shepard takes control of the reapers, they are used based on your paragon or rogue rating to help some or all races, and the universe prospers, but Shepard dies.
If you let Anderson destroy the reapers, he dies in the explosion, the reapers die, the Geth die, EVI dies, and everyone has to rebuild without synthetic assistance. If Shepard destroys the reapers, he/she survives, but the rest is the same as letting Anderson kill the reapers.
If you let Admiral Koris perform integration, everyone survives, Reapers become sentient and help rebuild the galaxy, but Admiral Koris dies. If Shepard performs integration he/she dies and all the rest is the same.
This allows for Shepard's adventures to continue in Mass Effect 4, and makes your choices throughout the game to actually matter.
Tbh, I hated ME3 at first, because of all the venom being spewed on multiple forums/reviews. I jumped on the hate bandwagon like an angry sheeple, had even written off BioWare entirely at one point. Eventually, I got tired of all the hate and replayed it (with extended cut, ofc). Without all the *mostly* senseless hate in my mind, I found I actually loved the game. Even the endings! *flameshield* It did have flaws, like every game, but I feel like some (some, not all!) people just hate it "Because the forums said it's bad grr!".
Though, like a lot of people, the autodialogue did irk me quite a bit. It was OOC for my Sheppy, especially forced concern for people she didn't care for. And lack of concern for those she did.
And, Ashley's redesign.... *grumbles* 
So, no, I do not hate it anymore.
Before someone eats my face off for being a BioWare/Mass Effect 3 fangirl because they only read half my post, I'll say it again: lotsa people did have valid concerns for disliking ME3. Though, personally I felt like it was a lot of bandwagon...ing. Which I was guilty of, as I mentioned.
*slowly backs out of thread*
My issues with ME3 that don't relate to the ending
-The atrocious amount of auto-dialogue that is out of character for many Shepards
-The inordinate amount of attention on Cerberus being bad guys, if they have to be antagonists fine, but they should not be a threat on par with the Reapers
-Lackluster missions in general, with the exception of Tuchunka and Priority Earth, none of the missions are that memorable, and those two are memorable for very different reasons
-The reduction in the amount of choices in the game, there is only one really big "morality" choice in ME3, the genophage cure
-The sidelining of ME2 characters
-Liara's content being so all encompassing that you start feeling like you are supposed to romance her and no one else
-The lack of impact from important choices prior in the series, Rachni and Collector Base particularly
I can go on but I'll leave it there for now
I was about to respond but this did it for me. Bravo.
I never really hated Mass Effect I actually loved the game till the last Earth mission. I think it was more because I was expecting a Mass effect 2 ending with all the choices and for the obvious reasons. I still do not like the ending but it will never change. Its sad they had to go that was with it because of one mistake.
Mass Effect 3 as a whole was actually a pretty great game. I remember when i first got it and started playing it how into the game i was, and as soon as i got to the ending and finished the game i remember literally sitting there watching the end credits and verbally saying, "That's it? THATS how Bioware ends Shephard's trilogy." i mean i wasn't pissed but definitely disappointed. Now as i replay the whole series with all the DLCs and everything, i can understand why Bioware made the ending how they did. I may not agree with it still but im definitely not as upset about it as i was.
Since when is acknowledging a mistake "grovelling"?
Since their already repeated acknowledgements of fan discontent and taken exceptional expense to address what they can while sticking to their design intent doesn't count as acknowledgement enough.
You aren't looking for them to admit they didn't make you happy with content you didn't like: you're expecting them to treat you with deferential respect or fear in a way that shows weakness in order to be forgiven or to regain approval or favor.
Which is pretty much the definition of grovelling. It isn't enough that they didn't make you happy: they must seek your forgiveness for a slight you've held for years.
And yes, making a product a buyer actually likes does a lot for goodwill.
Plenty of people did like it. You didn't. Making a product tailor made for you does nothing for a lot of goodwill because your goodwill isn't much.
But then, why am I talking to you?
My guess is that it says something about you and your obsessive tendencies on this topic.
Tbh, I hated ME3 at first, because of all the venom being spewed on multiple forums/reviews. I jumped on the hate bandwagon like an angry sheeple, had even written off BioWare entirely at one point. Eventually, I got tired of all the hate and replayed it (with extended cut, ofc). Without all the *mostly* senseless hate in my mind, I found I actually loved the game. Even the endings! *flameshield* It did have flaws, like every game, but I feel like some (some, not all!) people just hate it "Because the forums said it's bad grr!".
Though, like a lot of people, the autodialogue did irk me quite a bit. It was OOC for my Sheppy, especially forced concern for people she didn't care for. And lack of concern for those she did.
And, Ashley's redesign.... *grumbles*
So, no, I do not hate it anymore.
Before someone eats my face off for being a BioWare/Mass Effect 3 fangirl because they only read half my post, I'll say it again: lotsa people did have valid concerns for disliking ME3. Though, personally I felt like it was a lot of bandwagon...ing. Which I was guilty of, as I mentioned.
*slowly backs out of thread*
I'm embarrassed to admit that I was guilty of it too pre-EC. I'm fine with EC, honestly, and I appreciate that BW took the time and resources to release it. EC also made me rethink the endings- Control's Shepalyst monologue was pretty cool. There is a lot through the trilogy and MEU that I love, and I still enjoy going back to my favorite parts and trying new things.
Since their already repeated acknowledgements of fan discontent and taken exceptional expense to address what they can while sticking to their design intent doesn't count as acknowledgement enough.
You aren't looking for them to admit they didn't make you happy with content you didn't like: you're expecting them to treat you with deferential respect or fear in a way that shows weakness in order to be forgiven or to regain approval or favor.
Which is pretty much the definition of grovelling. It isn't enough that they didn't make you happy: they must seek your forgiveness for a slight you've held for years.
Plenty of people did like it. You didn't. Making a product tailor made for you does nothing for a lot of goodwill because your goodwill isn't much.
My guess is that it says something about you and your obsessive tendencies on this topic.
Plenty of people did indeed like it. But making a product that goes out of it's way to alienate a certain amount of the fanbase is not exactly a sign of goodwill. They explicitly wanted to make strife and diversion among their fans, and they did so in the final installment of their half-decade long trilogy.
Say what you will, but I think that was a stupid thing to do. Especially for long time fans, who (perhaps unfairly) had certain expectations for a BioWare product.
Also, don't be an ass.
Plenty of people did indeed like it. But making a product that goes out of it's way to alienate a certain amount of the fanbase is not exactly a sign of goodwill. They explicitly wanted to make strife and diversion among their fans, and they did so in the final installment of their half-decade long trilogy.
Say what you will, but I think that was a stupid thing to do. Especially for long time fans, who (perhaps unfairly) had certain expectations for a BioWare product.
The connotation of your post is that the alienation was intentional, which it wasn't. The "strife" wasn't either insofar as they just wanted fans to debate about the ending choice and speculate about what happens after. The nature of the debate caught them completely off-guard. That's not a reason to change what you wanted to accomplish with the endings, though. If fans want them to admit they made a mistake with the nature of the endings then I think they are barking up the wrong tree, and I say that as someone who thinks the endings are at best mediocre.
Stupid or not they certainly misjudged their fanbase, but then again they've admitted that multiple times since the game came out.
Plenty of people did indeed like it. But making a product that goes out of it's way to alienate a certain amount of the fanbase is not exactly a sign of goodwill. They explicitly wanted to make strife and diversion among their fans, and they did so in the final installment of their half-decade long trilogy.
Say what you will, but I think that was a stupid thing to do. Especially for long time fans, who (perhaps unfairly) had certain expectations for a BioWare product.
They didn't go out of their way to alienate a certain amount of the fanbase: that fanbase alienated itself by losing composure and making their approval dependent on things that weren't going to be given. Some of that fanbase insisted on taking offense where none was intended, persisted in seeing spite and persecution when none was given, and repeatedly distorted or outright twisted any attempts at communication to justify their vendetta and then wondered why developers stopped attempting to communicate with them, chalking it up to spite and persecution again. Hence why, even a year later, people were still slinging around 'artistic integrity' in sarcasm as if it had ever been used as a defense. We can go on about the nature of unreasonable expectations: expecting a total change of endings when the developers say they won't, and then complaining that they addressed nothing because they didn't do what they said they wouldn't, is a failure on the "fan", not the developer.
People who routinely lie about what was done and nurse a grudge for the sake of feeling victimized aren't victims, and certainly aren't a portion of a fanbase that needs to be catered to.
Also, don't be an ass.
Iakus had a sardonic reply. I returned with one a bit drier.
The connotation of your post is that the alienation was intentional, which it wasn't. The "strife" wasn't either insofar as they just wanted fans to debate about the ending choice and speculate about what happens after. The nature of the debate caught them completely off-guard. That's not a reason to change what you wanted to accomplish with the endings, though. If fans want them to admit they made a mistake with the nature of the endings then I think they are barking up the wrong tree, and I say that as someone who thinks the endings are at best mediocre.
Stupid or not they certainly misjudged their fanbase, but then again they've admitted that multiple times since the game came out.
Prior to EC, I could have believed this. But not after EC. That was their opportunity to show what they learned from the fans. But doubling down on these endings show they were either willfully ignoring what people found wrong with the endings (barring a few cosmetic changes) or they simply didn't understand what the big deal was.
And I think calling these endings mediocre is giving them too much credit. DA2's ending was mediocre. ME3 is a whole new level of bad.
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