I never hated it. I still enjoyed it, but there were certain parts (not including the ending) that disappointed me.
There were several things they could've done better, and the game would've been amazing. Throughout most of the game, it seemed rushed.
I didn't hate all of Mass Effect 3 - a large chunk of the first two acts were very well done. What I did (and still do, to a lesser extent) have an issue with is the ending. When I first got to the 'final choice', it was such a jarring change of pace and theme, and especially after being told the premise for it all, I felt utterly numb, bereft of any variety of emotion, and into that void came anger - especially after all the marketting hype.
The Extended Cut helped a little bit, but it was rather like polishing a turd. You can make it shine, but it's still a turd - or to use another analogy - you can't make a silk purse out of a cow's ear.
(The company's press reaction in the immediate aftermath didn't help, either.)
I wasn't referring to the breath scene in particular. But yes, I do know what that scene means, as do you.
To be honest I don't, or at least I am viewing it from a different viewpoint.
Corpses have been known to take a breath. So the scene doesn't necessarily indicate life.
Shepard was messed up before heading to the Citadel, walking toward an exploding tube isn't likely to help matters, not to mention that possibly getting thrown back to Earth would make thing worse.
If somehow that was Shepard alive at the end. The injuries received both in the beam run and later on would mean it would likely be the last breath of a victorious soldier.
The overall down beat of the endings would seem to favour death rather than life.
To be honest I don't, or at least I am viewing it from a different viewpoint.
Corpses have been known to take a breath. So the scene doesn't necessarily indicate life.
Shepard was messed up before heading to the Citadel, walking toward an exploding tube isn't likely to help matters, not to mention that possibly getting thrown back to Earth would make thing worse.
If somehow that was Shepard alive at the end. The injuries received both in the beam run and later on would mean it would likely be the last breath of a victorious soldier.
The overall down beat of the endings would seem to favour death rather than life.
And that demonstrates my point exactly.
The scene was intended to indicate Shepard lives. But the entire tone of the ending, as well as Shepard's apparent condition in the scene, simply does not bring that across. To people like me, it's simply an indication of despair and futility.
And sadly, all to often pro-ending fans condescend to people who feel this. Accusing them of wanting a Disney ending, of "not getting it" of exaggerating things. When really, the developers are the ones who didn't get it. They were so hellbent on a "bittersweet" outcome they simply didn't care what the players thought.
Personally, my dissatisfaction with the breath scene may have had more to do with the fact that my last conversations with certain favorite characters ended on a bleak or generally unsatisfactory note, creating more of a need for some positive reinforcement at the ending to provide relief from forlornness.
The Citadel DLC provided a potential balm for that sting, but you kind of have to pretend your last farewells happened there and not on Priority: Earth.
It's strange. Normally, I completely despise tragedy, but in the Control ending, I get a bittersweet ending that really, almost perfectly fits with my Shepard. So I don't hate it, no.
It's strange. Normally, I completely despise tragedy, but in the Control ending, I get a bittersweet ending that really, almost perfectly fits with my Shepard. So I don't hate it, no.
And you get to enforce your brutal dictatorship with collectors and indoctrination and mind control
YAY
Not if he doesn't want to.
She, but don't worry; it's not actually my intent.
And you get to enforce your brutal dictatorship with collectors and indoctrination and mind control
YAY
I liked it pre-EC when I imagined that Shepard would just order the Reapers to march into the sun or self-destruct. Then AI Shepard would spend the rest of his days chatting to people on the Citadel.
Hate is such a strong word..........
Dislike maybe? Sure, I can run with that.
And that demonstrates my point exactly.
The scene was intended to indicate Shepard lives. But the entire tone of the ending, as well as Shepard's apparent condition in the scene, simply does not bring that across. To people like me, it's simply an indication of despair and futility.
And sadly, all to often pro-ending fans condescend to people who feel this. Accusing them of wanting a Disney ending, of "not getting it" of exaggerating things. When really, the developers are the ones who didn't get it. They were so hellbent on a "bittersweet" outcome they simply didn't care what the players thought.
I think some of these pro-ending fans forget that the scene must work not only at an intellectual level, (yes we can understand that it is invitation to “feel free to headcanon your ending were Shepard lives, if you want”), but must also work at an emotional level, and that the requirements for each intellectual and emotional levels to work are different. Without the later, what we get is an incomplete game, one that offers no closure.
Just because it worked for these players at an emotional level, it was not because “they got it” at an intellectual level, but because they likely are of the “glass is half-full” kind of people in the first place, (and that is great), and also perhaps because they likely had less issues with the catalyst dialogue to affect their emotional predisposition.
Imo, the breath scene fails because it offers too little emotionaly, and it offers too little because the main goal of the scene was not to convey the idea that Shepard survives. Rather, the main goal was precisely to make sure that the scene, while opening the possibility of survival, doesn’t significantly diminishes the possibility of Shepard’s death, opening only the most faint of possibilities of a timely rescue. Otherwise, why cloud the only option at survival in (unnecessary) layers of ambiguity and unresolved problems that stand in the way of survival, when in the other endings Shepard’s death is either excruciatingly explicit or very clearly implied?
Note: edited for clarity
Personally, my dissatisfaction with the breath scene may have had more to do with the fact that my last conversations with certain favorite characters ended on a bleak or generally unsatisfactory note, creating more of a need for some positive reinforcement at the ending to provide relief from forlornness.
The Citadel DLC provided a potential balm for that sting, but you kind of have to pretend your last farewells happened there and not on Priority: Earth.
Indeed, imo citadel was a great opportunity lost; instead of making the story as something that supposedly happens before the ending, they could have made it also as an epilogue possibility; if Shepard survived and the player so wanted to play it that way.
Only a few lines would have to be changed for the DLC to accomplish this, but while small, this is the kind of changes that, I believe, would have a strong positive impact with the fans; a pity really.
I won't speak for other pro-ending posters -- even assuming I count as one -- but if someone only talks about the presentation of the ending I don't get involved. Though I suppose saying "Shepard is dying in rubble!" sounds better than "I found the ending emotionally unsatisfying!"I think some of these pro-ending fans forget that the scene must work not only at an intellectual level, (yes we can understand that it is invitation to “feel free to headcanon your ending were Shepard lives, if you want”), but must also work at an emotional level, and that the requirements for each intellectual and emotional levels to work are different. Without the later, what we get is an incomplete game, one that offers no closure.
I never really hated ME3. I was just highly disappointed by it. Many of the missions made me feel like my choices didn't matter all that much-- if I lost Legion, I got a VI. If I lost Wrex, I got some other Krogan. If I exterminated the Rachni Queen... they just found another one. It just felt lazy. I will admit, I hated the ending and part of me still does. It's soured me on buying ME4, that's for sure.
I won't speak for other pro-ending posters -- even assuming I count as one -- but if someone only talks about the presentation of the ending I don't get involved. Though I suppose saying "Shepard is dying in rubble!" sounds better than "I found the ending emotionally unsatisfying!"
I found the ending emotionally unsatisfying" is too clinical and unemotional. It doesn't get the point across why the ending was unsatisfying.
"Shepard is dying in the rubble" tells you why the ending is unsatisfying, even if the phrase should proberly be "It feels like Shepard is dying in the rubble". Dying in the rubble is not what the scene is meant to be, but that is the impression it leaves the player with. That's the emotional punch we get just when we are supposed to feel hope and triumph.
It doesn't get the point across why the ending was unsatisfying.
Oh, I think it takes pages of text to explain why the ending was unsatisfying.
Anyway, this is a ME3 hate thread, not an ending hate thread, isn't it? That means the ending is just part of what is to hate =P
I found the ending emotionally unsatisfying" is too clinical and unemotional. It doesn't get the point across why the ending was unsatisfying.
"Shepard is dying in the rubble" tells you why the ending is unsatisfying, even if the phrase should proberly be "It feels like Shepard is dying in the rubble". Dying in the rubble is not what the scene is meant to be, but that is the impression it leaves the player with. That's the emotional punch we get just when we are supposed to feel hope and triumph.
I agree and that's why I don't see the ending as artistic at all. To me, art is a work that's designed to bring a certain feeling to the people experiencing it. The fact that the ME3 ending really did feel unemotional is its biggest failure. Whether it's a happy ending, sad ending or bittersweet ending--- all three of those endings, if done well, bring about different emotions. Triumph and joy, depression and sadness... and they are all very artistically viable. ME3's ending felt more like it was trying to force itself to be artistic and in the end failed to really bring out any emotion except disappointment-- not because of the game's story, but of how the story was handled.
I found the ending emotionally unsatisfying" is too clinical and unemotional. It doesn't get the point across why the ending was unsatisfying.
"Shepard is dying in the rubble" tells you why the ending is unsatisfying, even if the phrase should proberly be "It feels like Shepard is dying in the rubble". Dying in the rubble is not what the scene is meant to be, but that is the impression it leaves the player with. That's the emotional punch we get just when we are supposed to feel hope and triumph.
Indeed, imo citadel was a great opportunity lost; instead of making the story as something that supposedly happens before the ending, they could have made it also as an epilogue possibility; if Shepard survived and the player so wanted to play it that way.
Only a few lines would have to be changed for the DLC to accomplish this, but while small, this is the kind of changes that, I believe, would have a strong positive impact with the fans; a pity really.
Fans would have raged that it rewards Destroy too much.
I suppose it would also have been a bit awkward to go chasing after your clone after the Reapers were defeated.
Fans would have raged that it rewards Destroy too much.
I suppose it would also have been a bit awkward to go chasing after your clone after the Reapers were defeated.
I think that's an inherent problem with the fan base and gamers in general. For some reason, people feel slighted if one end seems happier than another because they feel forced to take that choice, like it's the only way they can truly "win". Which, of course, isn't true and negates the whole point of playing a role and instead shows they're focused more on winning. You see it in a LOT of games where people say the happiest ending is the "best ending", which may be true if that's what you're shooting for as a Paragon Shep. But if you're playing a power hungry Shep who likes the idea of becoming an all-powerful god, then Control would be the best ending as there's really no drawbacks. It's also why I felt the whole "EDI and the Geth must die" in the Destroy ending felt like a needlessly tacked on consequence that was designed to give some false sense of having a hard decision. The only people that would have been bothered by it were the people looking to save the Geth. Those who already killed them or didn't care or just wanted power already had their "best endings", with no consequences. The only people being punished for their decisions are the people who wanted a happier outcome and actually worked hard to make peace.
I found the ending emotionally unsatisfying" is too clinical and unemotional. It doesn't get the point across why the ending was unsatisfying.
"Shepard is dying in the rubble" tells you why the ending is unsatisfying, even if the phrase should proberly be "It feels like Shepard is dying in the rubble". Dying in the rubble is not what the scene is meant to be, but that is the impression it leaves the player with. That's the emotional punch we get just when we are supposed to feel hope and triumph.
Does that actually work with anyone who doesn't already feel the way you do, though? It tells me that you feel something, I guess, but it doesn't explain why. And the "why" is the important part, isn't it?
The why is important. And while I can't make you understand on an emotional level why the breath scene makes me think of death more than life, it at least pinpoints where the problem lays, rather than a vague "it's unsatisfying" description. It lets you at least look at the ending again, try to see what the player is describing.
The why is important. And while I can't make you understand on an emotional level why the breath scene makes me think of death more than life, it at least pinpoints where the problem lays, rather than a vague "it's unsatisfying" description. It lets you at least look at the ending again, try to see what the player is describing.
Try looking at the breath scene as a reward for beating indoctrination, and it feels pretty damn magnificent. 
I understand this is not everyone's cup of tea though.
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