1638 réponses à ce sujet

[Bob from Accounting]

First of all, you have to assume the Catalyst is physically close by in the first place. Which you can't. Secondly, you have to assume the Catalyst would be destroyed or even fazed by the ships in question. Which you can't. Thirdly, you have to assume destroying him would accomplish anything. Which you can't.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

But that Shepard must use their own methods in order to"win" is.

 

Technically, it's not dumb, but no amount of methods are going to win the fight short of the Crucible. It's not a question of morals or ethics of actions. It's about the feasibility and capability of doing them. You don't have an 'I win' bomb for the Reapers. All you have is the Crucible. If you want to beat them, you're constrained you using what you have. What's more important? Stopping the Reapers at a cost, or keeping your integrity and dying? 

[voteDC]

What would it accomplish? You'd shoot the Crucible and kill Shepard while damaging the Citadel. You just screwed the 3 things you need to win the war.

As I said before. If you are willing to trust the Catalyst that it created and controls the Reapers and that the three choices aren't just a way for it to get its jollies by watching you kill yourself, then why is it beyond the realms of possibility that destroying the Catalyst will disable the Reapers?

Either way you know you are going to your death, why not pick a fourth way that isn't just sitting back and watching the world burn.
 

 

First of all, you have to assume the Catalyst is physically close by in the first place. Which you can't. Secondly, you have to assume the Catalyst would be destroyed or even fazed by the ships in question. Which you can't. Thirdly, you have to assume destroying him would accomplish anything. Which you can't.

 

Nor can you assume that it isn't there. Not can you assume that it wouldn't be fazed or destroyed by the ships firing on it. Nor can you assume that it would not have accomplished anything.

You or I have no idea if targeting the Catalyst would have had an effect. Would it be wrong to have had the option to try though? Even if like Refuse it ended in this cycle ending.

Surely it is as equally as valid a choice as believing your enemy that killing yourself will stop it.

[AlanC9]

Given that Shepard's communicator clearly still worked, why didn't Shepard tell Hackett to target his/her location and blow the hell out of the Catalyst.

That could have amusing consequences. Without the Catalyst maybe the Reapers realize that the cycles are worthless. No more Mr. Nice Guy from them. Instead, they conquer the galaxy and rule it forever. Even Liara's beacons won't help because there isn't going to be a next cycle.

Works for me. The PC should have an option to fail.

[DeinonSlayer]

What would it accomplish? You'd shoot the Crucible and kill Shepard while damaging the Citadel. You just screwed the 3 things you need to win the war.

I guess that's the "This is how we fix problems on Russian space station!" school of thought. Rarely works as well in practice.

...and I still need to get back to you on the other thread.

[Iakus]

What would it accomplish? You'd shoot the Crucible and kill Shepard while damaging the Citadel. You just screwed the 3 things you need to win the war.

 

Destroy the Citadel and you destroy the guiding intelligence of the Reapers:

 

Best case scenerio, you just killed all the Reapers

 

Worst case scenerio, you decapitated their leadership.

[AlanC9]

The entire situation was very dumb and should never have existed

If even you aren't taking your argument seriously, why should anyone else?

[Iakus]

Technically, it's not dumb, but no amount of methods are going to win the fight short of the Crucible. It's not a question of morals or ethics of actions. It's about the feasibility and capability of doing them. You don't have an 'I win' bomb for the Reapers. All you have is the Crucible. If you want to beat them, you're constrained you using what you have. What's more important? Stopping the Reapers at a cost, or keeping your integrity and dying? 

 

If this was the real world, and I did find myself in such a ridiculous situation, yeah, I'd probably end up shooting the pipe.

 

And hoping I didn't survive. 

 

Because I've become a monster as surely as the Reapers are monsters.

 

That's not how I want to play a game meant for entertainment

[Iakus]

If even you aren't taking your argument seriously, why should anyone else?

 

In the end, does anyone take the decision room seriously?

[von uber]

Destroying the citadel would've been an interesting choice, although given it is a relay shouldn't it go 'boom'?

[Iakus]

Destroying the citadel would've been an interesting choice, although given it is a relay shouldn't it go 'boom'?

 

Depnds on how it's destroyed.  If it ruptured like the Alpha Relay, sure.  But if it's just irepparably damaged, maybe not.

[Mcfly616]

As if you could be sure destroying the Citadel would do anything at all....


The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. It can exist without it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Destroy the Citadel and you destroy the guiding intelligence of the Reapers:

 

Best case scenerio, you just killed all the Reapers

 

Worst case scenerio, you decapitated their leadership.

 

Most likely scenario, you shot yourself in the foot and the Reapers continue the harvest unabated.

 

It's headcanon. 

 

As if you could be sure destroying the Citadel would do anything at all....


The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. It can exist without it.

 

That's purely speculative headcanon as well.

[von uber]

Incidentally was it ever determined who built the three options and the decision chamber? If it was the crucible team, why didn't they inform shep? Or investigate what they actually did? Or create a big 'fire' button?
And if it was the catalyst, then.. That's a whole can of worms..

[Mcfly616]

You just accepted the Kobyoshi-maru scenario - the assumtion that what was presented were the only options and (no win) outcomes. Well - frankly - good luck. Because if you adopt that view to your everyday life then you're not going to have a good time.

it's a videogame. So I'm not sure why he would directly adopt that view to his life based on the game. However, no win situations happen all the time in real life. Even more often than that, we don't have any control over the grand scheme of things. Most of the time we either play the cards we're dealt or we fold.


If you don't undestand or can't accept that fact of life, then you're going to have a rough time.

[Iakus]

As if you could be sure destroying the Citadel would do anything at all....


The Catalyst existed before the Citadel. It can exist without it.

 

Can we be sure the Crucible would do anything at all?

[Iakus]

Incidentally was it ever determined who built the three options and the decision chamber? If it was the crucible team, why didn't they inform shep? Or investigate what they actually did? Or create a big 'fire' button?
And if it was the catalyst, then.. That's a whole can of worms..

 

AS I said, can anyone take the decision chamber seriously?

[Mcfly616]

 

 
That's purely speculative headcanon as well.

nope. Leviathan DLC.

[Iakus]

it's a videogame. So I'm not sure why he would directly adopt that view to his life based on the game. However, no win situations happen all the time in real life. Even more often than that, we don't have any control over the grand scheme of things. Most of the time we either play the cards we're dealt or we fold.


If you don't undestand or can't accept that fact of life, then you're going to have a rough time.

 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

If this was the real world, and I did find myself in such a ridiculous situation, yeah, I'd probably end up shooting the pipe.

 

And hoping I didn't survive. 

 

Because I've become a monster as surely as the Reapers are monsters.

 

That's not how I want to play a game meant for entertainment

 

Why do you care that you're a monster? Why do you feel like you're a monster for using the methods of one to do what you have to do? The universe doesn't care what you are. Why does it matter what you be for the sake of a mission? Why not live for the ones who didn't? Why not take their deaths and live your life to the fullest in honor of theirs if you so choose? People die. It's a part of war. Sometimes, that includes having to be the one to technically kill them yourself. As I said, the universe doesn't care.

 

Not all games are meant for entertainment. In fact, I don't think they should be. That same kind of logic goes into making a book, or a tv show, or a movie, or any other piece of art or media by your definition. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

nope. Leviathan DLC.

 

Once again... That's purely speculative headcanon.

[Mcfly616]

Can we be sure the Crucible would do anything at all?

No. But you can be sure that doing nothing wouldn't.

[Iakus]

Why do you care that you're a monster? Why do you feel like you're a monster for using the methods of one to do what you have to do? The universe doesn't care what you are. Why does it matter what you be for the sake of a mission? 

 

 

I doubt it's something you can understand.

 

 

Not all games are meant for entertainment. In fact, I don't think they should be. That same kind of logic goes into making a book, or a tv show, or a movie, or any other piece of art or media by your definition.

 

Please don't bring "art" into this.

[Mcfly616]

what? You don't comprehend the fact that he was unnecessarily correlating the guys view of the game into his everyday life? And then you don't understand that I was indulging him with the correlation if that were the case?


o_O