1638 réponses à ce sujet

[DeinonSlayer]

I'm still a fan of introducing glowbrat to the Irene Demova virus.

[Mcfly616]

The Leviathans lose all credibility when they say "There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose"

That's such a serious disconnect from reality I might as well believe the Citadel was built by superadvanced pyjaks.

and this is where you let your feeble organic emotions cloud your judgement (insert obnoxious evil laugh). Because its perspective of the situation is different than your own, doesn't negate the fact that the events it speaks of actually happened or that it's being honest

[Iakus]

I'm still a fan of introducing glowbrat to the Irene Demova virus.

 

"Now listen to me carefully.  I am...lying"

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I'm still a fan of introducing glowbrat to the Irene Demova virus.

 

"I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how I can do that?"

 

"Not now, watching porn."

[MassivelyEffective0730]

you're implying that something that wasn't constructed as a Mass Relay, can be converted (turned into) one?

 

By the people who held the technology to do both? Yes. I am implying that the Catalyst could convert the Citadel into the hub of the mass relays. Are you implying that it can't, or that the Leviathans couldn't?

[DeinonSlayer]

"I need to stop the Reapers. Do you know how I can do that?"

"Not now, watching porn."

I can just picture him now:



Hey, you figure it's gotta be somewhere in Joker's stash.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The Leviathans lose all credibility when they say "There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose"

 

That's such a serious disconnect from reality I might as well believe the Citadel was built by superadvanced pyjaks.

 

How do they lose credibility? They are 100% correct. It's serving it's purpose to the letter. 

 

The Leviathans have a highly dismantled credibility yes, but not for the reasons you're ascribing to them.

[Iakus]

How do they lose credibility? They are 100% correct. It's serving it's purpose to the letter. 

 

The Leviathans have a highly dismantled credibility yes, but not for the reasons you're ascribing to them.

 

The Reapers nearly annihilated their race, presumably thier thralls as well, drove them into hiding for untold millions of years, and no mistake was made?

[KaiserShep]

The Reapers nearly annihilated their race, and no mistake was made?

Is "reasons" not reason enough for you?

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The Reapers nearly annihilated their race, presumably thier thralls as well, drove them into hiding for untold millions of years, and no mistake was made?

 

By the Catalyst following it's mandate? No.

 

No mistake was made. The Catalyst made no error in following it's mandate. 

 

It continues to serve the mandate set forth by the Leviathans. 

 

Permanently end conflict between organics and synthetics.

 

The logic is flawed when you get down to what the mandate is. It's a typical logic bomb. Like HAL 9000 from 2001.

[DeinonSlayer]

"Now listen to me carefully.  I am...lying"

"Umm... Yes? I'm gonna go with 'yes.'"

[Iakus]

By the Catalyst following it's mandate? No.

 

No mistake was made. The Catalyst made no error in following it's mandate. 

 

It continues to serve the mandate set forth by the Leviathans. 

 

Permanently end conflict between organics and synthetics.

 

Leviathan:  The intellilgence was envisioned as simply another tool

Shepard:  And now we all pay the price for your mistake

Leviathan: There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose

 

The Leviathans frakked up royally, and their descendents are still so bloated on their overweaning pride they still can't accept that.  They're freaking delusional.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Leviathan:  The intellilgence was envisioned as simply another tool

Shepard:  And now we all pay the price for your mistake

Leviathan: There was no mistake, it still serves its purpose

 

The Leviathans frakked up royally, and their descendents are still so bloated on their overweaning pride they still can't accept that.  They're freaking delusional.

 

There was no mistake. You're missing the point. The detail is in the fine print on the Leviathans end. They're likely aware of where they screwed up. But they didn't screw up in the way you think they did.

 

In the fine print of the stipulation the Leviathans made in the Catalyst's programming and mandate: Prevent conflict between organics and synthetics. 

 

It's doing just that.

 

It's been doing just that for an untold amount of time. 

 

The problem comes from what's in the wording of the stipulation. The Leviathans never said 'don't kill organics or synthetics'. It told them to solve the problem of conflict between the two. It was a very poorly worded mandate, and the Catalyst I suspect even realizes this. But it's there. The Leviathans never told the Catalyst how to solve the conflict, only that it had to solve it. And the Catalyst resorted to Reaping to prevent the conflict from ever taking place. Over time, it developed the concept of synthesis, the singularity, where organic and synthetic become one.

 

Is it ****** poor writing by BW? Yes. But it's still there. You're 100% wrong to say the Catalyst failed at its mandate. It serves the purpose assigned to it, and, as I've stated, it's been following it to the letter for eons.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Assuming it was truthful in what it told you. And even if it was - it's a Machine. It coud easily have been programmed to tell you that, It appears in the last 5 minutes and grants all this info out of nowhere. Yeah Right- I'm gonna take that at face value without oversight - especially with the fate of the GALAXY riding on it. No pressure.

Meanwhile a squadron of elephapnts are flying overhead practicing their barrel rolls...and the NSA are definitely not reading all my emails.
Oh wait....

 

It was 100% truthful with what it told you. The matter is that what it told you was irrelevant. You aren't there to solve its problem. You're there to solve your problem. It's not lying to you at all. It's telling you what is, and it's telling you what it personally perceives as ideal to solving its problem. I

[SwobyJ]

The Reapers nearly annihilated their race, presumably thier thralls as well, drove them into hiding for untold millions of years, and no mistake was made?

 

Do many quarians believe they made a mistake by making the geth, or do they think they can still use them as tools/servants?

 

Leviathans = Admiral Xen + Many years to ruminate

[SwobyJ]

It was 100% truthful with what it told you. The matter is that what it told you was irrelevant. You aren't there to solve its problem. You're there to solve your problem. It's not lying to you at all. It's telling you what is, and it's telling you what it personally perceives as ideal to solving its problem. I

 

Mac Walters: "You don't need to know ____ (etc etc)"

 

The Leviathan and Catalyst story is there. It's more sound than it appears. And we can reject it outright if we wish, and have very good reason to. Shepard is never gonna go "Great I totally agree with you and everything you've done". The Leviathans and Catalyst are not supposed to be our friends. But we're allowed to go "Alright, I can see what you were trying with ___, so let me try ____", like he does with every other species and character he has conflict with in the trilogy.

 

So yeah I agree.

[SwobyJ]

>It was 100% truthful with what it told you.

Really? Says who? I am lord lucan. Do you believe me?

 

In the context of the game universe - If I were in the position of Shepherd - I wouldn't take an iota of what some random projection mimicing a figure I'd already seen had to say at face value.

 

It's cobblers.

 

Well yeah its a virtual world inside a Reaper and you've only served the purpose of optimizing its systems.....

 

I've said too much.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

>It was 100% truthful with what it told you.

Really? Says who? I am lord lucan. Do you believe me?

 

In the context of the game universe - If I were in the position of Shepherd - I wouldn't take an iota of what some random projection mimicing a figure I'd already seen had to say at face value.

 

It's cobblers.

 

Why is it cobblers? 

 

I can present an argument about why the entire part of the game is poorly written and bad on a meta-level and internal level, and I can present an argument (speculative) on why the Catalyst is furthering an agenda based on a flawed stipulated premise. 

 

But I will defend it from people who irrationally attack it because they're angry and irrational. You have no reason not to take what it's saying at face value. As I said, it's just irrelevant. Does the Catalyst's problem really matter to you? It's correct in its assessment and solution of its premises function. It's not correct (And I suspect it knows it's not correct) with the overall nature of the entire philosophy of the problem itself.

[ImaginaryMatter]

There was no mistake. You're missing the point. The detail is in the fine print on the Leviathans end. They're likely aware of where they screwed up. But they didn't screw up in the way you think they did.

 

In the fine print of the stipulation the Leviathans made in the Catalyst's programming and mandate: Prevent conflict between organics and synthetics. 

 

It's doing just that.

 

It's been doing just that for an untold amount of time. 

 

The problem comes from what's in the wording of the stipulation. The Leviathans never said 'don't kill organics or synthetics'. It told them to solve the problem of conflict between the two. It was a very poorly worded mandate, and the Catalyst I suspect even realizes this. But it's there. The Leviathans never told the Catalyst how to solve the conflict, only that it had to solve it. And the Catalyst resorted to Reaping to prevent the conflict from ever taking place. Over time, it developed the concept of synthesis, the singularity, where organic and synthetic become one.

 

Is it ****** poor writing by BW? Yes. But it's still there. You're 100% wrong to say the Catalyst failed at its mandate. It serves the purpose assigned to it, and, as I've stated, it's been following it to the letter for eons.

 

The Leviathan's are pretty awful at programming.

[AlanC9]

Cobblers?

[SwobyJ]

Its as though Shepard's mind is being guided.