1638 réponses à ce sujet

[MassivelyEffective0730]

The Leviathan's are pretty awful at programming.

 

Yes, yes they are.

 

Logic Bomb people

[AlanC9]

Im not actuallly attacking the game here. From the point of view of someine IN that universe, would you believe what you were being told - with no former or previous information, clues, hints etc. I'd be a tad sceptical faced with a load of info that was completely from leftfield and didn't fit with anything I already knew? It might be a Wag-The-Dog-Scenario?

A Wag-the-Dog scenario? To what end?

More importantly, it doesn't matter if you believe him or not. If the choices aren't real, it doesn't matter what Shepard does anyway; he's already failed.

[Aimi]

Apologies - Cobblers is a coloquial British slang term for "a load of rubbish". I'm sure google could fill you in ;-)

It's entirely sausage to me.

[KaiserShep]

Apologies - Cobblers is a coloquial British slang term for "a load of rubbish". I'm sure google could fill you in ;-)

I prefer the sort that's made with apples or peaches.

[AlanC9]

Apologies - Cobblers is a coloquial British slang term for "a load of rubbish". I'm sure google could fill you in ;-)

It does clear this up if you ask about slang. The Wikipedia disambiguation page doesn't get to this usage of "cobblers", though it does mention Northampton Town F.C.

[Iakus]

 

The problem comes from what's in the wording of the stipulation. The Leviathans never said 'don't kill organics or synthetics'. It told them to solve the problem of conflict between the two. It was a very poorly worded mandate, and the Catalyst I suspect even realizes this. But it's there. The Leviathans never told the Catalyst how to solve the conflict, only that it had to solve it. And the Catalyst resorted to Reaping to prevent the conflict from ever taking place. Over time, it developed the concept of synthesis, the singularity, where organic and synthetic become one.

 

Is it ****** poor writing by BW? Yes. But it's still there. You're 100% wrong to say the Catalyst failed at its mandate. It serves the purpose assigned to it, and, as I've stated, it's been following it to the letter for eons.

 

 

I never said the mistake was on the Catalyst's part.  GIGO, after all.

 

The quote I posted pretty clearly shows that it was the Leviathans made the mistake.  Shepard expressly says to a Leviathan "And now we all pay the price for your mistake"

 

The Catalyst is operating on a flawed assumption with unclear parameters to solve a problem who's very existence is in doubt.  Frankly it doesn't matter if it makes a mistake or not.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I never said the mistake was on the Catalyst's part.  GIGO, after all.

 

The quote I posted pretty clearly shows that it was the Leviathans made the mistake.  Shepard expressly says to a Leviathan "And now we all pay the price for your mistake"

 

The Catalyst is operating on a flawed assumption with unclear parameters to solve a problem who's very existence is in doubt.  Frankly it doesn't matter if it makes a mistake or not.

 

Except the Leviathans dont believe they made a mistake because the Catalyst is following its mandate as they presented it.

[Iakus]

Except the Leviathans dont believe they made a mistake because the Catalyst is following its mandate as they presented it.

Which makes them delusional, imo

[AlanC9]

Except the Leviathans dont believe they made a mistake because the Catalyst is following its mandate as they presented it.

Well, they just might believe that the mandate ought to have had a couple of limitations put on it.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Which makes them delusional, imo

Agreed.

 

Well, they just might believe that the mandate ought to have had a couple of limitations put on it.

Well you'd think that someone that claims to be part of the Apex Race in the galaxy would be smart enough to figure that out for themselves, but...

[Iakus]

There's always a bigger fish.

Anyone who denies that doesn't understand the scale, majesty, beauty and complexity of the universe we know about (let alone the unknown universe - which is even more exciting). 

 

Creating your own bigger fish, beating the beauty and complexity of the universe to the punch, though is generally considered a mistake 

[SwobyJ]

*Calls itself apex species

 

*Only lived in one galaxy, let alone multiple or the whole universe

 

Just another 'organic' doing organic stuff.

 

They were arrogant. They will learn.

 

/Reaperface

[SwobyJ]

Creating your own bigger fish, beating the beauty and complexity of the universe to the punch, though is generally considered a mistake 

 

That's the point.

 

It wasn't a mistake to the Leviathans by their parameters. It wasn't a mistake by the Reapers' parameters. It was a mistake by Shepard's parameters. It is eventually an agreed (though they'd never say it) mistake by the Leviathans, and at the end, by the Catalyst.

 

Shepard's role is the guy that slaps some sense into others. Renegade does it rudely. Paragon does it nicely. People complain about Shepard yelling a lot at others, but jeez, that's what he's supposed to do. That's who he is.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

That's the point.

 

It wasn't a mistake to the Leviathans by their parameters. It wasn't a mistake by the Reapers' parameters. It was a mistake by Shepard's parameters. It is eventually an agreed (though they'd never say it) mistake by the Leviathans, and at the end, by the Catalyst.

 

Shepard's role is the guy that slaps some sense into others. Renegade does it rudely. Paragon does it nicely. People complain about Shepard yelling a lot at others, but jeez, that's what he's supposed to do. That's who he is.

 

Nonono. R!Shep is as blunt as a Brogue Kick to the teeth.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I never said the mistake was on the Catalyst's part.  GIGO, after all.

 

The quote I posted pretty clearly shows that it was the Leviathans made the mistake.  Shepard expressly says to a Leviathan "And now we all pay the price for your mistake"

 

The Catalyst is operating on a flawed assumption with unclear parameters to solve a problem who's very existence is in doubt.  Frankly it doesn't matter if it makes a mistake or not.

 

The problem is indeed 100% in existence. Look at any conflict among organics and synthetics, and that is your proof. It's neither a flawed assumption nor does it have an unclear parameter. It does have an etymological wording failure. The goal is simple to define, the motive is simple to define, and the outcome is simple to define. But the wording makes the method and execution problematic. Technically, the Leviathans messed up because of a programming error. Their mistake wasn't akin to some moral or ethical or philosophically repugnant ideal. It was because they didn't word their statement right. 

 

Poor Communication Kills.

[SwobyJ]

The problem is indeed 100% in existence. Look at any conflict among organics and synthetics, and that is your proof. It's neither a flawed assumption nor does it have an unclear parameter. It does have an etymological wording failure. The goal is simple to define, the motive is simple to define, and the outcome is simple to define. But the wording makes the method and execution problematic. Technically, the Leviathans messed up because of a programming error. Their mistake wasn't akin to some moral or ethical or philosophically repugnant ideal. It was because they didn't word their statement right. 

 

Poor Communication Kills.

 

Erm, you might have defined a lot of the trilogy's messages with those last three words.

[Iakus]

The problem is indeed 100% in existence. Look at any conflict among organics and synthetics, and that is your proof. It's neither a flawed assumption nor does it have an unclear parameter. It does have an etymological wording failure. The goal is simple to define, the motive is simple to define, and the outcome is simple to define. But the wording makes the method and execution problematic. Technically, the Leviathans messed up because of a programming error. Their mistake wasn't akin to some moral or ethical or philosophically repugnant ideal. It was because they didn't word their statement right. 

 

Poor Communication Kills.

 

 

I fail to see how this is not a mistake.

 

I find RGB to be morally and ethically repugnant.  And I find the need to solve the so-called "problem" the Catalyst was supposed to fix to be a dubious claim (organic vs synthetic conflict being inevitable is like saying organic vs organic conflict is inevitable).  But all that was beside the point in setting the parameters the Intelligence could work within.  And everything that followed.

 

That is what caused the cycles of destruction the galaxy has been forced to endure for untold eons.  That was the mistake.  Or if it wasn't a mistake, it was the greatest act of mass murder in existence.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

I fail to see how this is not a mistake.

 

I find RGB to be morally and ethically repugnant.  And I find the need to solve the so-called "problem" the Catalyst was supposed to fix to be a dubious claim (organic vs synthetic conflict being inevitable is like saying organic vs organic conflict is inevitable).  But all that was beside the point in setting the parameters the Intelligence could work within.  And everything that followed.

 

That is what caused the cycles of destruction the galaxy has been forced to endure for untold eons.  That was the mistake.  Or if it wasn't a mistake, it was the greatest act of mass murder in existence.

 

Because the Catalyst is working perfectly within its mandate as set by the Leviathans at creation. It doesnt matter if its means to that end are not what the Leviathans intended because they can not put fault on the Catalyst for working as they designed it to.

[AlanC9]

Depends on the alternatives. In the latter case, what happens if humans aren't exterminated?

[CronoDragoon]

Which makes them delusional, imo

 

They were delusional ever since they thought they could program an AI to solve synthetic wars. Probably before.

 

Agreed.

 

Well you'd think that someone that claims to be part of the Apex Race in the galaxy would be smart enough to figure that out for themselves, but...

 

There's not much evidence to suggest the Leviathans are intelligent/wise/clever at all. They rose to power and maintained it because they were able to control the minds of others, not due to intelligence or competence in any other aspect.