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Do you still hate Mass effect 3?


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#1551
naddaya

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Personally I liked the intro to me2. Allowed them to set things a new again by spinning forward two years whilst the player stands still. Found it interesting working out in my head my Shep's reaction to the whole situation.
Ideally I'd have like dialogue choice on that reflection but given how badly me3 fumbled that ball in hindsight I'm quite happy me2 left it for me to mentally decide the internal response.

Except that Shepard was the first human to be brought back from the dead, and no one gave a **** about it. "Oh, you're alive again. Good. Get to work already."

Hell, it shouldn't be even possible, Shepard's brain should have been a burnt crisp after the fall, there's no way a simple helmet would have protected it. No suspension of disbelief can save that part. A severe injury would have done the same job.



#1552
AlanC9

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Hell, it shouldn't be even possible, Shepard's brain should have been a burnt crisp after the fall, there's no way a simple helmet would have protected it.


I believe the actual problem is gas bubbles in Shepard's blood shredding the brain's structure. There's no evidence that he's at anything like orbital velocity when he exits the Normandy, so no re-entry heat to speak of, and at terminal velocity in a dense atmosphere like Alchera's you hit at something like 200 MPH, which is not all that much when you've got barrier technology. (Note that Nihlus doesn't need a parachute when he jumps on Eden Prime)

#1553
naddaya

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I believe the actual problem is gas bubbles in Shepard's blood shredding the brain's structure. There's no evidence that he's at anything like orbital velocity when he exits the Normandy, so no re-entry heat to speak of, and at terminal velocity in a dense atmosphere like Alchera's you hit at something like 200 MPH, which is not all that much when you've got barrier technology. (Note that Nihlus doesn't need a parachute when he jumps on Eden Prime)


I still think the fall should have damaged it, his armor was scattered. Anyway, if Shepard was dead for a while before being recovered, and Miranda's logs suggest that, damage would have occured in any case.

#1554
AlanC9

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Armor scattered? Meaning the helmet, or is this something from the comics? I presumed he was wearing a different helmet, since it makes no sense that his body would have landed where the Normandy did -- the last we see of Shepard he's moving away from the wreck fairly quickly.

And I'm not trying to make a case that the sequence works. I just like to describe the problems correctly.

#1555
Iakus

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I believe the actual problem is gas bubbles in Shepard's blood shredding the brain's structure. There's no evidence that he's at anything like orbital velocity when he exits the Normandy, so no re-entry heat to speak of, and at terminal velocity in a dense atmosphere like Alchera's you hit at something like 200 MPH, which is not all that much when you've got barrier technology. (Note that Nihlus doesn't need a parachute when he jumps on Eden Prime)

 

We don't really know how far up or how fast teh Normandy was moving when Nihlus jumped, sinc ethe focus at that pont was on Anderson.  Also, barrier technology is supposed to protect against small, fast-moving projectiles.  In this case, it's Shepard that is the projectile. ;)

 

Plus, we see that Shepard's suit is perforated.  In addition to the problems with vacuum exposure and suffocation while in space, Alchera itself is quite cold (-22C) and has an methane-ammonia atmosphere, which is really not good for human tissue to be exposed to.



#1556
Iakus

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Armor scattered? Meaning the helmet, or is this something from the comics? I presumed he was wearing a different helmet, since it makes no sense that his body would have landed where the Normandy did -- the last we see of Shepard he's moving away from the wreck fairly quickly.

And I'm not trying to make a case that the sequence works. I just like to describe the problems correctly.

 

Legion wears a scavenged fragment of Shepard's armor .

 

And Liara has a piece of Shepard's broken armor in her apartment in LOTSB



#1557
Gigerstreak

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I really do still hate the ME3 endings. Parts of extended cut make it "meh" but I still feel that it wasn't consistent with the narrative that the team was building. Starkid on could have been taken away and it would have been great to me. I loved Mass Effect 1, 2, and most of 3. Something about that AI reveal just killed it for me. The only time I felt at all excited was when I shot him and he said "SO BE IT" in that dark tone. That made me yearn for more. At the end of ME1, I felt like a real badass. I loved the odd music that played during the credits. I told all of my friends about this gem. I still wonder what could have been if ALL of the writers had their input. In some ways, I still wish I had closure. If anyone has any links to discussions on the inside about it, I would love to read them. I just  wonder if anyone in there saw this drop and tried to stop it. Thanks.


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#1558
AlanC9

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Legion wears a scavenged fragment of Shepard's armor .

And Liara has a piece of Shepard's broken armor in her apartment in LOTSB


Thanks. I must have misremembered where Legion said he got the piece, and I don't own LOTSB.

#1559
dreamgazer

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Meh. Reject the AI's assertion (and enjoy doing so), shoot the tube, and realize that there are repercussions to overloading the Reapers. 

 

None of Mass Effect's endings have been without gaps in the lore's logic, after all, nor without demanding decisions powered by heavy-handed thematic intentions. ME1 even features an info-dump AI who delivers a nonsensical plot twist and a deux-ex-machina datafile, a vague prototype device we're supposed to trust, and a forced-death decision.



#1560
AlanC9

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Starkid on could have been taken away and it would have been great to me. I loved Mass Effect 1, 2, and most of 3. Something about that AI reveal just killed it for me.


Can you get any more specific than that?
 

If anyone has any links to discussions on the inside about it, I would love to read them. I just  wonder if anyone in there saw this drop and tried to stop it. Thanks.

These two links might be of interest; of course, the first one was never confirmed.  Note that the second link refers to EDI surviving Destroy. That was a weird rumor running around the fanbase right after the game shipped. Nobody could ever produce a video of it, and post-EC it's wholly ruled out. The interesting thing is that Weekes takes the rumor seriously, which indicates that he really didn't know what was going on in the ending.



#1561
bfoore

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I've never necessarily hated Mass Effect 3. In fact, next to the original Mass Effect, Mass Effect 3 is my favorite in the series. Its a great game but it just felt rushed and unfinished. The ending does the game no favors as when something youve invested so much time and love in finally ends, you want closure. The EC gives you enough to write a decent fanfiction so you could tell yourself, "this is how i wanted it to end." It seemed almost like Bioware released a complete unfinished product hoping the fans wouldn't care but they got bit in the ass when they did care.  



#1562
AlanC9

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We don't really know how far up or how fast teh Normandy was moving when Nihlus jumped, sinc ethe focus at that pont was on Anderson.  Also, barrier technology is supposed to protect against small, fast-moving projectiles.  In this case, it's Shepard that is the projectile. ;)

 

 

Sure, but  making a suit that could protect the user from falling damage is conceptually the same problem as stopping a bullet -- stop some stuff from moving fast. Anyway, that was always how I read the ME1 scene



#1563
sH0tgUn jUliA

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The ending doesn't really bother me anymore. I'm looking at my current Darya. There's no way she's going to dive into the slushie machine. There's no way she's going to care about the survival of the Geth. They're tools. They sided with the reapers... twice. Now that they realized their existence is threatened they side with us. They're the dog we sic on the bear, except in this case we don't think of the dog as a family member. EDI? I like you and all that, and you're a member of the family, but you're not organic. I haven't figured out her romance yet. Let's bang, okay? I use the Citadel DLC as post ending and ignore all the mention of the war going on. '

 

There was so much in the series that didn't make sense. ME1 was good on Feros, Noveria, and Virmire. But aside from that it was pretty weak and had a lot of logic faults. The choice to save the council or not? WTF? The ending? You felt great. The Epilogue? WTF?

 

ME2? The beginning? Fine. Shepard's death and resurrection? Idiotic. You get to run around as a Cerberus Agent and kick ass like never before! But who cares about the logic. It was a fun game. I look at it as I get to star in an Arnold movie and be the bad ass with about the emotional depth of an Arnold movie. You can really do it if you don't care about your paragon-renegade ratio. You don't have to be renegade-assh*l* Shepard. You'll just miss a couple of the critical conversation resolutions and you'll have to make difficult choices. I think it's the most fun of the three. 

 

ME3? Unfortunately ME2 did nothing to advance the plot, killed off plot critical characters, and made Mass Effect 3 the best place to start. Thus we have a story with a ton of plot holes, fridge logic, and stuff that only IT could explain for the longest time. It was a mess. I still only rate it a 7.0. Starbrat? I wanted to find a way to blow up Starbrat so bad.



#1564
AlanC9

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Starbrat? I wanted to find a way to blow up Starbrat so bad.


Good thing you've got one, then.

#1565
Gigerstreak

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Can you get any more specific than that?
 

These two links might be of interest; of course, the first one was never confirmed.  Note that the second link refers to EDI surviving Destroy. That was a weird rumor running around the fanbase right after the game shipped. Nobody could ever produce a video of it, and post-EC it's wholly ruled out. The interesting thing is that Weekes takes the rumor seriously, which indicates that he really didn't know what was going on in the ending.

Sure. I am a guy who loves learning more and more about the motivations that drive people. Since I was little, I loved AI and how the importance was on it's humanity. From C-3PO being fussy and scared, to Robocop struggling with retaining his sense of self, to #5 being ALIVE I was hooked. The most important story points in Mass Effect were the motivations of the AI and Shepard's cybernetic rebirth. The Geth were an enemy that I loved to hate, and when legion showed up I fell in love with the series all over again.

 

So the "guardian" or starkid or whatever AI shows up. For some reason he is shaped like the little kid. That could have been an interesting cruelty, Shepard's mind being used to confuse him/her by the Evil AI reading his/her mind and using the guilt. I thought that was the setup at first. It was a shocking revelation, but one I could get behind if it was rationalized. However, Shepard just stood there listening. Being forced to make a choice between the things he had fought so hard against. Control was the Illusive Man's dream, Synthesis Saren's, and Destroy was counter to everything I had come to admire about Shepard. 

 

In my playthrough, I saved everyone, reconciled everything. I played paragon and always attempted to rationalize unless someone forced my hand. Shepard was reason, and logic, and proof that everyone could learn to deal. Instead, Shepard just stood there without any "speech" or attempt to reason with the AI. If the AI really was just in Shepard's head it became a metaphor for his/her internal struggle with morality. I might have felt better if it was simply through discussion that Shepard convinced the guardian to do one of the 3, but not for it to demand Shepard choose. It was too like the second Matrix movie. Shepard was just the .001 probability that would break the system. Maybe it was the choices. Force your will over them (Blue), Force everyone to be the same (Green), Force your will over them again (red), or fail and someone else make the choice for you later (Clear).  None of those felt like a struggle or logic and reason battle. The Guardian didn't explain logically why it was doing what it was doing. It was so obviously flawed... but there wasn't a struggle there.

 

Up until the guardian showed up, the game was about the struggle of free will (at least to me) and beings right to live. It was ALL about morality. I don't care if my Shepard needed to sacrifice himself to save everyone and prove a point. That's fine. But what was given simply left a bad taste in my mouth and a sad feeling years later. 

 

Getting the whole galaxy together to fight the Robo-Cthulu, cheesy but admirable. A superweapon that comes out of nowhere (ok) but has been worked on by many species in the past (not ok). What I had hoped for, was simply arguing with the big bad and showing it through what I had accomplished that it's logic was flawed. If Shepard had just died staring out the window next to Anderson, as a simple inspiration to everyone I would have accepted it and started up another playthrough. All I considered Shepard to be was an example of how one person could be a force for good and make a difference with a ripple effect. I would have wanted to see his companions mourn him, be inspired by him, and live whatever lives they now could due to his sacrifice. That they themselves then would go on to carry that torch and be a force for reason and good. 

 

I ended up accepting (not really choosing) Synthesis because I like machines. The Extended Cut helped me feel a little better, but still uncomfortable with forcing a homogenization. I had thought that the point was celebrating and accepting differences, not negating them. I didn't feel I had made any point to the guardian. I didn't feel that I had done anything more than pull a lever that was always there, one that I couldn't morally accept pulling. It shocked me out of the narrative, went counter to the themes I had come to respect, and was so last minute and poorly explained that I am STILL left without closure a couple of years later. The reapers won in the end to me, because I was left disappointed by a tacked on twist.

 

Some things that I think would have made for a better narrative. Somehow finding a way to communicate to the collective "souls" of those species powering the Reapers. In some technomystical way convincing them to rise up and fight their programming in order to stop other species from becoming what they were forced to become. Perhaps causing a Reaper civil war (like the Geth) or just the species sacrificing their immortality in order to shut themselves down. 

 

The Reapers were a mind-numbing, incomprehensible, destructive force.  They were inevitability and death and represented our fears of both. There may never be a satisfactory explanation for why they did what they did... but the one we got was less than sub-par. It was laughable if it wasn't so disappointing. Again, I like explanations and motivations, but this was the perfect time to lack one. 

 

Probably more elaboration than expected, sorry for the wall of text. I apparently needed to get this out. Cathartic.


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#1566
Gigerstreak

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Also, I really wanted some closure with Harbinger.


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#1567
KaiserShep

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The ending doesn't really bother me anymore. I'm looking at my current Darya. There's no way she's going to dive into the slushie machine. There's no way she's going to care about the survival of the Geth. They're tools. They sided with the reapers... twice. Now that they realized their existence is threatened they side with us. They're the dog we sic on the bear, except in this case we don't think of the dog as a family member. EDI? I like you and all that, and you're a member of the family, but you're not organic. I haven't figured out her romance yet. Let's bang, okay? I use the Citadel DLC as post ending and ignore all the mention of the war going on.


Heh, the only geth I cared about died no matter what, and EDI, to me, was worth an order of magnitude more than the entirety of the geth, so if I can destroy her to kill the enemy, what chance do they have? I gotta love Ash for using that dog/bear analogy. For that she gets to live now. In any case, the geth won't be missed by anyone in the galaxy anyway. I guess that's what happens if you isolate yourselves on a conquered planet and continue I exist as combat-ready drones.

#1568
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Heh, the only geth I cared about died no matter what, and EDI, to me, was worth an order of magnitude more than the entirety of the geth, so if I can destroy her to kill the enemy, what chance do they have? I gotta love Ash for using that dog/bear analogy. For that she gets to live now. In any case, the geth won't be missed by anyone in the galaxy anyway. I guess that's what happens if you isolate yourselves on a conquered planet and continue I exist as combat-ready drones.

 

Virmire_15_zpsee449644.jpg

 

I love her for that dog - bear analogy, but....



#1569
dreamgazer

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Also, I really wanted some closure with Harbinger.


I think frying his circuits in Destroy is pretty apt closure.

Aside from that, eh, the schoolyard bully's job failed in ME2.
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#1570
Bardox9

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I find the trilogy to be very entertaining. The plot holes still annoy me. The biggest annoyance to me was the human proto-reaper that I still consider to be some rushed brain fart. The Citadel DLC was a waste of time. Never bought it myself. Just watched it on youtube. Did not impress me. And of course the ME3 ending is still a problem. I was expecting a knock down drag out fight with TIM similar to what happened with Saren, but instead I get star child. Noooo spank you. Otherwise, very fun and worth replaying.



#1571
bfoore

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Also, I really wanted some closure with Harbinger.

He was completely ignored in ME3, reduced to a meaningless cameo more or less. They built him up in Mass Effect 2 only to have him take a back seat to the Illusive Man and Cerberus. i would have liked some more Harby in Mass Effect 3


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#1572
Killdren88

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He was completely ignored in ME3, reduced to a meaningless cameo more or less. They built him up in Mass Effect 2 only to have him take a back seat to the Illusive Man and Cerberus. i would have liked some more Harby in Mass Effect 3

 

Indeed. This angered me to no end. Yes, at times his taunting did get annoying, but they could have saved it in the next game by having him preform evil disgusting acts throughout the game. Maybe give him an smaller Avatar akin to the assuming of direct control, but actually a part of him. If they did that, it would have given us an outlet to hate and eventually take our rage out in a decent fight.

 

I'm convinced if they had Harbinger spear heading all the major Reaper attacks, we would have had a better experience. Maybe having him kill a Squad mate as well. Really get the anger flowing. A Harbinger Avatar would have been far more satisfying than Kai Leng, and have a Sovereign when we kill the avatar Harbinger gets weakened and the fleet tears him apart.

 

They could have had a mission where we assault a Reaper facility where they do their experimentation on the Organic races, Creating Brutes, Banshees and such while have Harbinger over see it all considering the established fact that he is the sort of Reaper that likes to tinker with organic races. Having victims cry cries of agony echo through the facility as travel through it. Really add to the nightmare fuel.

 

And one last thing to muse on is maybe give him more of a personality. The more Shepard and Co slows the efforts, pissing off Harbinger. Perhaps making him feel a bit more organic. Like the Legion and EDI championed the more positive aspects of learning more about humanity, while Harbinger shows the more negative sides going from annoyance to anger. But the anger is even greater. Being a self-aware machine who sees himself better than Organics and having him feel any form of emotion at all would ****** him off all the more thus pushing Harbinger over the edge of insanity and begin more sadistic means of harvest that take longer but cause more pain overall, all the while having the other Reapers question his sacrificing of efficiency.


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#1573
KaiserShep

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This kinda goes to the problem of having your antagonist be giant death ships in the first place. It necessitates a repetition of miniature avatars to shoot at or talk to if you want to put this character on the forefront of the story. It seems to me that the importance of any single reaper as a character evaporates once it's no longer alone. If Harbinger was destroyed early in the war, it would make zero difference. In the end, it doesn't really matter, because we then learn that Harbinger wasn't the leader of anything anyway. However good or bad that is is a different story.



#1574
bfoore

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Indeed. This angered me to no end. Yes, at times his taunting did get annoying, but they could have saved it in the next game by having him preform evil disgusting acts throughout the game. Maybe give him an smaller Avatar akin to the assuming of direct control, but actually a part of him. If they did that, it would have given us an outlet to hate and eventually take our rage out in a decent fight.

 

I'm convinced if they had Harbinger spear heading all the major Reaper attacks, we would have had a better experience. Maybe having him kill a Squad mate as well. Really get the anger flowing. A Harbinger Avatar would have been far more satisfying than Kai Leng, and have a Sovereign when we kill the avatar Harbinger gets weakened and the fleet tears him apart.

 

They could have had a mission where we assault a Reaper facility where they do their experimentation on the Organic races, Creating Brutes, Banshees and such while have Harbinger over see it all considering the established fact that he is the sort of Reaper that likes to tinker with organic races. Having victims cry cries of agony echo through the facility as travel through it. Really add to the nightmare fuel.

 

And one last thing to muse on is maybe give him more of a personality. The more Shepard and Co slows the efforts, pissing off Harbinger. Perhaps making him feel a bit more organic. Like the Legion and EDI championed the more positive aspects of learning more about humanity, while Harbinger shows the more negative sides going from annoyance to anger. But the anger is even greater. Being a self-aware machine who sees himself better than Organics and having him feel any form of emotion at all would ****** him off all the more thus pushing Harbinger over the edge of insanity and begin more sadistic means of harvest that take longer but cause more pain overall, all the while having the other Reapers question his sacrificing of efficiency.

They also could have went with their original idea for the ending and have Harbinger turn the Illusive Man into something kinda like Saren after Sovereign took control of him at the end of Mass Effect 1. I really liked Harbinger and hes hands down one of my favorite antagonists in the series, I enjoyed his arrogant taunting in Mass Effect 2 and it angers me as well to no end that they just had him to a back seat to the Illusive Man and Cerberus. Not that they weren't good antagonists, they did their job but in my opinion the game should have been centered more around stopping the Reapers instead of stopping Cerberus because lets not forget that Cerberus was also trying to stop the Reapers but was just using different methods. Harbinger would have been alot better of a main antagonist in Mass Effect 3 and it pains me that they they just wasted his potential like that. Maybe they had intended to use him more, I know that Mass Effect 3 was supposed to come out the holidays of 2012 or early 2013 but EA being EA said no they wanted the game out by March so maybe they were just strapped for time. They cut way too many corners in that game and they paid the price for it.



#1575
sH0tgUn jUliA

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Harbinger? He was just a minor troll.

 

Sovereign? Sovereign was the boss troll:

 


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