29 réponses à ce sujet

[-Conspirator]

 Alright. I'm planning on doing a warrior who is a tank and an archer. So I'll go with lots of dexterity. Now I heard different things about the strength/dexterity modifiers for bows. Which bows are affected by which modifiers?

Thanks.

[-Conspirator]

This one can't be difficult. I'd fancy a quick answer.

[Akimb0]

-Conspirator wrote...

This one can't be difficult. I'd fancy a quick answer.

There.

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Longbows

http://dragonage.wik.../wiki/Shortbows

Really, you could have found this by searching the forums or google. No need to be rude with "I'd fancy a quick answer."

Modifié par Akimb0, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:39 .

[-Conspirator]

My bad. I actually did look in the wiki, but I didn't find this site. Thanks.

[lessthanjake9]

-Conspirator wrote...

 Alright. I'm planning on doing a warrior who is a tank and an archer. So I'll go with lots of dexterity. Now I heard different things about the strength/dexterity modifiers for bows. Which bows are affected by which modifiers?

Thanks.

Depends on which version of the game you have.

If you have the xbox, then this is the answer as far as I've heard: Strength increases damage, while both strength and dexterity increase attack.

If you have the PC, then the same is true unless you get the dex hotfix or some other mod that actually fixes the modifiers so that they are what they were meant to be. In this case, it will depend on the bow. With longbows, strength and dexterity increase damage and attack. With shortbows and crossbows, dexterity increases damage, while I believe strength and dexterity increase attack.

If you have the xbox, or an unmodded PC, then I suggest not really trying to be an archer. From what I understand (never really played around with a archer builds until I modded my PC), they only get a damage modifier from strength, but it is a 0.5 modifier since it was meant to be modified by dexterity as well. As such, archery will always do badly in damage.

The only thing I can say to you is this. You seem to want a warrior tank/archer. If you have the PC version, get the "combat tweaks" mod that makes dex be the only modifier for shortbow damage. Roll a dex-heavy shortbow character. It will be a great tank and do heavy damage. If you DONT have the PC version, then go the sword/shield route to be a tank. Invest 4 talent points into the line that culminates with arrow of slaying. Use Arrow of Slaying on the most powerful enemy at the start of a battle, and then switch to your normal weapon. That way you've got a tank who gets a lot of value from a bow.

[-Conspirator]

Thank you! Now that was helpful!

[Akimb0]

lessthanjake9 wrote...

-Conspirator wrote...

 Alright. I'm planning on doing a warrior who is a tank and an archer. So I'll go with lots of dexterity. Now I heard different things about the strength/dexterity modifiers for bows. Which bows are affected by which modifiers?

Thanks.

Depends on which version of the game you have.

If you have the xbox, then this is the answer as far as I've heard: Strength increases damage, while both strength and dexterity increase attack.

If you have the PC, then the same is true unless you get the dex hotfix or some other mod that actually fixes the modifiers so that they are what they were meant to be. In this case, it will depend on the bow. With longbows, strength and dexterity increase damage and attack. With shortbows and crossbows, dexterity increases damage, while I believe strength and dexterity increase attack.

If you have the xbox, or an unmodded PC, then I suggest not really trying to be an archer. From what I understand (never really played around with a archer builds until I modded my PC), they only get a damage modifier from strength, but it is a 0.5 modifier since it was meant to be modified by dexterity as well. As such, archery will always do badly in damage.

The only thing I can say to you is this. You seem to want a warrior tank/archer. If you have the PC version, get the "combat tweaks" mod that makes dex be the only modifier for shortbow damage. Roll a dex-heavy shortbow character. It will be a great tank and do heavy damage. If you DONT have the PC version, then go the sword/shield route to be a tank. Invest 4 talent points into the line that culminates with arrow of slaying. Use Arrow of Slaying on the most powerful enemy at the start of a battle, and then switch to your normal weapon. That way you've got a tank who gets a lot of value from a bow.

Didn't they fix the "dex bug" for bows on the PC already? I'm reasonably sure they did.

[BlackVader]

There never WAS a dex-bug for bws on ANY platform. The infamous dex-bug ONLY affected dagger-damage, NOT bows. Ceck the 1.02 patchlog and you'll find onlythe dagger-fix because bows never needed any bug-fixing.

Both, short- and longbows get the exactly equal amount of +attack and +damage per point in EITHER Dex OR Str.

Oh, and don't use crossbows. Those are in fact bugged and get no damage-bonus from ANY attribut.

[SuperMedbh]

Is there any reason to use a shortbow, then? Their damage seems lower on the average than the longbows. I'm on the PC.



I know this topic has been done to death, but there's a bit of conflicting information out there. BlackVader's answer seems to be the latest, but there's also a number of threads and guides that recommend the shortbow because (said info claims) it only uses dex to figure damage.

[Zan Hakudou]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Is there any reason to use a shortbow, then? Their damage seems lower on the average than the longbows. I'm on the PC.

I know this topic has been done to death, but there's a bit of conflicting information out there. BlackVader's answer seems to be the latest, but there's also a number of threads and guides that recommend the shortbow because (said info claims) it only uses dex to figure damage.

I've never seen anything that implies that shortbows work any different from longbows. The only advantage they have is a slightly faster attack rate.

[BlackVader]

Despite the slighly faster attack speed, there's no reason to use a shortbow. Also, there's not a single shortbow with the rapid aim ability and a longbow with rapid aim is actually quite a bit faster than any shortbow.

The "short-bows are dex-only" rumor comes from the dex-hotfix. Many seem to think it was offical and part of Patch 1.02. Well, it was neither official NOR part of any official patch. Only dagger-damage was fixed, while longbows, shortbows and even the bugged crossbows were not changed at all.

In fact, the hotfix is totally outdated since 1.02 was released and can not even be downloaded from the missing manual anymore. Even if you still have it somewhere, I'd highly recommend to NOT use it as it breaks all of Shale's crystals, making her a very weak character. It's totally possible that the hotfix might also break future DLC (or maybe even expansion) items.

[JosieJ]

Scout's bows are shortbows, and they have the Rapid Aim ability. However, I'd concur that there's really no need to go with a shortbow over a longbow, especially since "named," shortbows are rare--and underwhelming compared with "named" longbows like Falon Din's Reach, Far Song, and Marjolaine's Recurve.

[JPCamden]

Dex is bugged. I tested it. My archer did 14 or 15 damage, I saved up 2 levels, then I put 7 points into DEX and my damage didn't go up at all. I was killing the same things too.

[BlackVader]

7 points of dex are lik +2,1 to bow damage. Seeing how armor AND damage are randomized for each attack, I think a signicantly higher amlount of points would be neede for actual testing. I'll grab a respec-vial and try it myself.

Modifié par BlackVader, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:09 .

[Lekwid]

BlackVader wrote...

7 points of dex are lik +2,1 to bow damage. Seeing how armor AND damage are randomized for each attack, I think a signicantly higher amlount of points would be neede for actual testing. I'll grab a respec-vial and try it myself.

Wouldn't a damage increase be shown in the character's inventory screen?  Even with only 7 pts, there should be some difference in the dmg displayed.  Unless there's a display bug too.

[Akimb0]

Finally got some direct answers here when I made a thread:

http://social.biowar...66/index/689330

Modifié par Akimb0, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:20 .

[sethroskull79]

I swear 1 point of either str dex or cun (lethality) = 0.3 damage. So if you put the last 7 points into dex, you will get 2.1 more damage, if you put 3 in dex and 4 in cun you will get 2.1 damage. Might as well put it in dex cause you get 7 attack. Until DEX is fixed Archers will be not as good as they could be.

[BlackVader]

Lekwid wrote...

Wouldn't a damage increase be shown in the character's inventory screen?  Even with only 7 pts, there should be some difference in the dmg displayed.  Unless there's a display bug too.

Yes, and it is the fastest and easiest way to check any damage increase. However actual testing should give better results.

So anyway, I did my testing. I used my level 10 rogue. My first spec was bard (which shouldn't affect any testing) and I used a mundane Longbow tier 3 with a base damage of 7,20. My target was the bounty hunter mage outside of Orzammar. I chose a mage because she probably has no armor my 7+ points of armor penetration can't counter so her armor wouldn't affect my testing. I play PC 1.02 with no mods (despite some cosmetical changes)

Note that I had NO talents picked besides stealth2 to get into save shooting postion. This especially means NO LEATHALITY. I deactivated stealth before the first attack to avoid auto-crit. Also, I did not have any party buffs, or sustained abilities active. For each spec, I reloaded at least 4 times and needed about 4-5 shots to kill the mage. So the damage numbers are based on roughly 18 attacks.

I'll list the stats in the following order:

STR + DEX = TOTAL
DAMAGE according to character screen
DAMAGE done to mage: mindamage - maxdamage  -> average damage

Ok, before respeccing, my stats looked like this:
24 + 39 = 63
24,4
21 - 27 -> 24

Then I respecced and pumped EVERYTING into dex resulting in
14 + 74 = 88
32,3
28 - 37 -> 32,5

After that, I did the same with strength. EVERYTHING went to it. Results:
70 + 18 = 88
32,3
28 - 36 -> 32

And while I was at it, I respecced once more, and this time devided my points between str und dex.
44 + 44 = 88
32,3
27 - 38 -> 32,5

Funny side note: The avarage of the 3 last tests' avarage damage is 32,3. Excactly what is written on the character screen! So I guess we can say the character screen is correct.

So, there you go. It doesn't matter at all whether you raise STR (CUN with leathality) or DEX if you are an archer. A total of X points always results in Y damage per shot on average.

Bottom line, bows are NOT broken* by any means. Well, longbows at least. Didn't test shortbows, I have to admit.
But then again I DID test that the character screen shows higher damage for shortbows if you increase either DEX or STR (+0.3 damage per point, just like longbows). And since I now know for sre that the character screen is correct, I'll just say longbows and shortbows BOTH get +damage from STR AND DEX.

Think of it what you will. I'm done testing. Back to playing an amazing game called Dragon Age: Origins


*By "broken" I mean "bugged". They might still be "broken" as in "too strong" or "too weak" but in any way at the moment they do pretty much wha they are intended to do by the developers.

Modifié par BlackVader, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:01 .

[Mr_Raider]

Did you test the attack bonus?

[Akimb0]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Did you test the attack bonus?

Check the link I added a few posts back, which stat gives attack bonus is in that thread. However attack bonus is irrelevant in this case, his tests were to discover which stats affected damage and by how much. Now iirc attack bonus is based on dex. So since all the stats give the same damage, then it makes sense that Dex is the stat to go with. Cunning seems to be a viable alternative (as a rogue ofc), if you can find other sources to boost your attack rating. (Bard song etc.)

Modifié par Akimb0, 21 janvier 2010 - 10:47 .

[BlackVader]

Mr_Raider wrote...

Did you test the attack bonus?

Attack bonus was always 99 for the last 3 tests. I didn't give the number because unlike damage my attack score was influenced by items and skills. But still, just like damage, the attack score is always the same whether you increase dex, str, or both.

[lessthanjake9]

BlackVader wrote...

Lekwid wrote...

Wouldn't a damage increase be shown in the character's inventory screen?  Even with only 7 pts, there should be some difference in the dmg displayed.  Unless there's a display bug too.

Yes, and it is the fastest and easiest way to check any damage increase. However actual testing should give better results.

So anyway, I did my testing. I used my level 10 rogue. My first spec was bard (which shouldn't affect any testing) and I used a mundane Longbow tier 3 with a base damage of 7,20. My target was the bounty hunter mage outside of Orzammar. I chose a mage because she probably has no armor my 7+ points of armor penetration can't counter so her armor wouldn't affect my testing. I play PC 1.02 with no mods (despite some cosmetical changes)

Note that I had NO talents picked besides stealth2 to get into save shooting postion. This especially means NO LEATHALITY. I deactivated stealth before the first attack to avoid auto-crit. Also, I did not have any party buffs, or sustained abilities active. For each spec, I reloaded at least 4 times and needed about 4-5 shots to kill the mage. So the damage numbers are based on roughly 18 attacks.

I'll list the stats in the following order:

STR + DEX = TOTAL
DAMAGE according to character screen
DAMAGE done to mage: mindamage - maxdamage  -> average damage

Ok, before respeccing, my stats looked like this:
24 + 39 = 63
24,4
21 - 27 -> 24

Then I respecced and pumped EVERYTING into dex resulting in
14 + 74 = 88
32,3
28 - 37 -> 32,5

After that, I did the same with strength. EVERYTHING went to it. Results:
70 + 18 = 88
32,3
28 - 36 -> 32

And while I was at it, I respecced once more, and this time devided my points between str und dex.
44 + 44 = 88
32,3
27 - 38 -> 32,5

Funny side note: The avarage of the 3 last tests' avarage damage is 32,3. Excactly what is written on the character screen! So I guess we can say the character screen is correct.

So, there you go. It doesn't matter at all whether you raise STR (CUN with leathality) or DEX if you are an archer. A total of X points always results in Y damage per shot on average.

Bottom line, bows are NOT broken* by any means. Well, longbows at least. Didn't test shortbows, I have to admit.
But then again I DID test that the character screen shows higher damage for shortbows if you increase either DEX or STR (+0.3 damage per point, just like longbows). And since I now know for sre that the character screen is correct, I'll just say longbows and shortbows BOTH get +damage from STR AND DEX.

Think of it what you will. I'm done testing. Back to playing an amazing game called Dragon Age: Origins


*By "broken" I mean "bugged". They might still be "broken" as in "too strong" or "too weak" but in any way at the moment they do pretty much wha they are intended to do by the developers.

Interesting. I was trusting someone else's testimony when I said that dexterity doesnt increase bow damage in an unmodded PC or console version. I thought it DID increase damage, but I had never tested it thoroughly so I went with someone who had said they DID test it and found no effect from dexterity.


In that case, the advice to the OP is this:

If you have the xbox or an unmodded PC, and you want a tank/archer, pump up dexterity as much as possible. Get strength up to 20 for equipment, but put everything else into dexterity. Use longbows. You will do okay damage, but your defense will be absurdly high, especially with Defensive Fire on. Since you want to be a warrior, go Champion for Rally/Warcry which help as a tank. Then you have a few options. You could go Berserker for the extra health, and turn on Berskerk with a melee weapon and then switch to a bow to allow the damage bonus to affect bows. I think thats sort of exploiting the game, so I would probably go Templar instead. This will allow you to access certain items with HUGE spell resistance, which will help a great deal as a tank. 

If you find that that does not do enough damage for you, then you could alternatively do what I said before and make a sword/shield tank that has Arrow of Slaying.

If you have a PC that is modded with either the dex hotfix or one of the other mods that makes shortbows/crossbows be entirely dex-based, then basically do what I said above except use a shortbow, since it will do more damage due to having a 1.0 damage modifier from dexterity.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 22 janvier 2010 - 08:22 .

[mosspit]

To BlackVader: Can your findings be applied to console versions?

[Akimb0]

mosspit wrote...

To BlackVader: Can your findings be applied to console versions?

Yes, bows in the console versions work the same at the moment.

[mosspit]

Did console get patched in a similar manner to PC patch1.02a?