33 réponses à ce sujet

[M920CAIN]

 I have just recently (as in 2 hours ago) finished quite possibly my last ever playthrough of the Mass Effect trilogy I went through all 3 games, all DLC, everything, played the game with the MEHEM 04 mod installed and the extended Anderson dialogue mod and the Citadel DLC after Reapers are destroyed mod. Basicaly I got my custom ending in which everything ended pretty much exactly as I ever wanted it to be. Thank you devs and modders for this. That said, I am very satisfied with my gaming experience of this trilogy and I will remember it for years to come. 

Now that I got that out of the way, here is my suggestion for you developers out there if you are listening: don't make Mass Effect 4 a shooter experience. Please make it an exploration experience. I mean Mass Effect until now has been about military bravado and exploration, but now after we have defeated the greatest threat we have ever known, I think the future shouldn't be about war and more military stories, Shepard has fullfiled all our needs in that regard, it should be about exploring the galaxy in a post Reaper Wars environment. Whatever ending we got (be it red or blue or green) the galaxy still exists and it has moved on in a newer direction, there should be peace now among all major forces and the next game should concentrate on rebuilding, discovering new areas of our galaxy, small run-ins between mercenary forces as in business as usual now, corporation going back to testing new tech or Reaper left over tech, developing new constructs (possibly even a plot about corporations creating abhorent things), and such. I think the endless possibilities for smaller yet very significant plots is there. Besides the exploration factor which should be the key term here, we have our next protagonist. He/she should not be a soldier, no relation to Alliance. He should not be working for a shaddy organization either, he should be your average joe schmoe getting in trouble while trying to make a living in the glorious world that is Mass Effect. His first experience with a gun should be of unfamiliarity and gun battles should not happen on every mission in order to reach the next objective (think of missions like Samara's loyalty quest or Thane's loyalty quest or general exploration in places like the Citadel, Illium, Omega). I think as fans of Mass Effect we have seen the face of war, we have passed that and we are ready for a new era in that galaxy.

Tl;dr - more exploration, less shooting, playable character that isn't a fan of guns (in addition, I think stealth elements would be very welcome also the possibility of stunning generic mooks and not killing everything in your way)

Thank you for reading. 

Modifié par M920CAIN, 11 février 2014 - 07:28 .

[Slurms McKenzie]

M920CAIN wrote...

He/she should not be a soldier, no relation to Alliance. He should not be working for a shaddy organization either, he should be your average joe schmoe getting in trouble while trying to make a living in the glorious world that is Mass Effect. His first experience with a gun should be of unfamiliarity and gun battles should not happen on every mission in order to reach the next objective

Tl;dr - more exploration, less shooting, playable character that isn't a fan of guns (in addition, I think stealth elements would be very welcome also the possibility of stunning generic mooks and not killing everything in your way)

so.... like what then? Teenage boy/girl stowaway on a mercantile ship, coming-of-age story in the ME universe?

[SwobyJ]

I don't think they'll be downgrading the shooter experience.

Only make it more optional and open. Instead of being attached to the gun, it'll be more a tool to be on hand when needed.

I don't agree they should be a newbie. I also think there should almost always be an option to run and gun, but that they also significantly elaborate and progress on both stealth and persuasion mechanics.
No soldier. No relation to Alliance. Agreed.

[Slurms McKenzie]

The Han Solo edition then?

[M920CAIN]

Slurms McKenzie wrote...

M920CAIN wrote...

He/she should not be a soldier, no relation to Alliance. He should not be working for a shaddy organization either, he should be your average joe schmoe getting in trouble while trying to make a living in the glorious world that is Mass Effect. His first experience with a gun should be of unfamiliarity and gun battles should not happen on every mission in order to reach the next objective

Tl;dr - more exploration, less shooting, playable character that isn't a fan of guns (in addition, I think stealth elements would be very welcome also the possibility of stunning generic mooks and not killing everything in your way)

so.... like what then? Teenage boy/girl stowaway on a mercantile ship, coming-of-age story in the ME universe?

Not necessarily a teenager, but it could be some freelancer that has his own ship or someone living a normal / boring life getting in over his head and then trying to survive his situation (think of Tali in ME1 before she meets Shepard, kinda like that). Ordinary person finds some critical information and next you know goes from nobody to well known space pirate or something... discovering new characters that will help you, discovering love along the way, living the life... you know. What I would like to see now is this a 180 on the main character. For example:
- Shepard was self sufficient in most situations, invulnerable most of the times, but needed to recruit the best of the best to fight impossible odds. Shepard was a killer from the very first time we met him, he knew what death was (remember those 3 backgrounds). Killing has always been casual.

well now:

- Main protagonist has no experience in what he/she's up against, learns along the way (RPG elements), is vulnerable and stumbbles (does not actively recruit, but stumbles) upon people / aliens that will help him/her and become friends in the process (lovers because of the bioware model). This character has never killed, by the end of the game he can either become a killer or not (hence we have a paragon / renegade aspect ). This time killing should not be casual.

EDIT: Someone made a remark about Han Solo. I think this is a good example and why not? 

Modifié par M920CAIN, 11 février 2014 - 07:50 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

I think it would be cool if the new protagonist was some sort of archeologist, like Indiana Jones in space, or maybe a salvager. Either one can provide a reason to travel around the galaxy, own and captain a ship, make love to crew mates, and uncover some plot that needs solving.

[IoCaster]

M920CAIN wrote...

-snip-

Who or what is the target audience for this game? Do you imagine that they could sell more copies with this type of game than the shooter model that they've already established with ME1-3?

[SwobyJ]

Slurms McKenzie wrote...

The Han Solo edition then?

To compare more in-universe, the general ideas of:

-Kasumi (the virtual and stealth part)
-Liara (the softer option)
-EDI (the synthetic aspects)
-Kai Leng (the better parts of...)
-Arrival (the stealth part)
-Citadel (the infiltration of casino)

In Mass Effect Trilogy, the majority of characters who join are more focused fighters, soldiers, mercs, tough guys, etc. This isn't as much in ME1, but ME2-ME3 really advances that feel, where the majority of squadmates could be termed as 'killers', and the rest still are focused around the idea of Destroying the enemy, the Reapers.

I'd think that the next game(s) would flip that around more, and have the majority (even a slim one) be more about indirect fighters, agents, hunters, smart asses, softies, newbies given a chance, etc.

And while ME3 only began to introduce the idea of squadmate characters being outright 'peaceful' (Green stuff, with Mordin/Padok, somewhat Wrex and Eve, Thane, Legion and somewhat Tali, and somewhat EDI - a lot of these except Legion, Thane, and Mordin depending on choices). I'd think the next game(s) would establish these kinds of characters more intimately instead of remotely.

Now transplant this squadmate tone to the rest of things, from storyline to gameplay mechanics.

We may be more about containing or dealing with a volatile chaos (Mass Effect: Inquisition, really really) with established factions, than briefly uniting factions to resist a corrupt order.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 11 février 2014 - 08:02 .

[M920CAIN]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...

I think it would be cool if the new protagonist was some sort of archeologist, like Indiana Jones in space, or maybe a salvager. Either one can provide a reason to travel around the galaxy, own and captain a ship, make love to crew mates, and uncover some plot that needs solving.

I very much would like to play this type of character. Spot on! Regarding owning your own ship, there could be a mission in which you actually purchase it legally or steal it giving you the option to become an outlaw or not.

[SwobyJ]

We'll ride a Reaper.

LOL but really I don't know. I just have ideas that lead me to believe we may be taking a nicer Reaper around (is that even possible? a nicer Reaper? Well EDI...).

[M920CAIN]

IoCaster wrote...

M920CAIN wrote...

-snip-

Who or what is the target audience for this game? Do you imagine that they could sell more copies with this type of game than the shooter model that they've already established with ME1-3?

Well I understand your concern and I cannot give you a definitive answer because I know only my preferences. I mostly play games that have a TPS feel to them but I always enjoy RPG elements in the games I play. I'm not saying to outlaw shooting. If someone wants to play the game as a shooter sure his decision, but make killing less casual / more avoidable (I want to mention that I am not a sensitive person and I've done a lot of killing in the games I play so it's not that I want to avoid gore, I LIKE GORE, but in a game like Mass Effect I enjoy the story and characters and the dialogue more than I enjoy the adrenaline of killing hostile npcs). For example in Mass Effect you almost always have to shoot everyone in the room in order to get to the next room. Well, this time we should have options:
1 - talk your way out of a fight (Shepard did this in ME1 a few times: when he avoided killing a few of Fist's men, on Noveria he persuaded a few guards to leave Synthetic Insights building, he persuaded biotics to let him speak to their leader without a fight - I loved that in ME1, ME2 and ME3 didn't really have any of this, but in ME3 it's understandable given the opposition)
2 - stealth - the game should offer at least basic stealth mechanics - preferably they should work hand in hand with combat mechanics - think Hitman Absolution where if you hide in cover and move around the enemy doesn't know where you are going to pop out from next and shoot them - much more realistic then current systems in which it doesn't matter how much you move in cover because the enemy AI will always know where you are because they have X-ray vision (of course Mass Effect has radar/scanner mods and such that makes it easy to explain why your enemy always knows where you are) - but back to stealth: proper knock down mechanics should be an option (to avoid a kill that is not necessary)
3 - shooting your way out of a jam - I would argue for the possibility of adding non lethal weapons to the game but that's just me (I guess Deus Ex is a good example of this)

Based on the wall of text I guess the target audience is:
mature person, average 18+ who likes action/adventure games with RPG elements, shooter mechanics and stealth system.

I think the protagonist of the game should be a "newbie" as people call it to enforce the RPG leveling up system. The first game yes he's a newb so what? but if it's going to follow the trilogy model, in the 2nd game he'll be a veteran so a newb protagonist offers us the chance to grow along with our character and be immersed more because we are newly experiencing the game as much as the protagonist is.

No offense, but Shepard leveling up in ME1 is somewhat explainable because he was transitioning from soldier to spectre, in ME2 it was explainable because he was recovering his strength after the Lazarus gig and in ME3 they handled it logically by keeping the level at 30 and extending it back to 60 (basically Shepard regaining full strength again as he was at the end of ME1). That said it was pretty weird in ME1 that a soldier couldn't shoot straight at the begining of the game, but now the character will have a reason for being a bad shot.

Modifié par M920CAIN, 11 février 2014 - 08:32 .

[SwobyJ]

Good stuff CAIN.

[IoCaster]

M920CAIN wrote...

Based on the wall of text I guess the target audience is:
mature person, average 18+ who likes action/adventure games with RPG elements, shooter mechanics and stealth system.

That's fine but games like Deus Ex sell considerably less than Mass Effect. Don't misunderstand because I'd actually enjoy playing a game that's similar to what you've outlined, but EA isn't likely to let ME transition away from a formula that's been so successful for them. The best bet would be to hope that some other dev (perhaps CD Projekt RED with Cyberpunk 2077) creates the type of game you're looking for. *shrug*

[SwobyJ]

IoCaster, whynotboth.jpg?

Why can't they introduce more RPG and stealth mechanics, while keeping most of the stuff from co-op and SP shooter mechanics (and even evolving them)?

I doubt they'd go 100% Deus Ex. Like that's not gonna happen imo.

[IoCaster]

SwobyJ wrote...

IoCaster, whynotboth.jpg?

Why can't they introduce more RPG and stealth mechanics, while keeping most of the stuff from co-op and SP shooter mechanics (and even evolving them)?

I doubt they'd go 100% Deus Ex. Like that's not gonna happen imo.

Given enough resources they could conceivably do whatever they want. I just think that it's unlikely that a relatively new studio would get the autonomy to make any kind of drastic changes to an existing formula that's been so successful.  

Modifié par IoCaster, 11 février 2014 - 11:39 .

[SwobyJ]

I don't think it'd be drastic.

1)They'll take cues from Dragon Age: Inquisition throughout (so expect less outright corridor shooter than ever)
2)Montreal devs are more highly influenced by what Eidos Montreal has done, from what I've noticed.

I think we're keeping a 3rd person shooter. Just that more options could be available now, making it closer to, but not quite Deus Ex in some aspects. If Kai Leng wasn't enough of a clue ... (I'm kidding, but man, that's like... it shouldn't be in ME3 but instead Deus Ex).


That said, I also see the game being very 'Battlefield Effect' in other ways. More open areas, bigger element of crowd control and larger player and enemy groups, some element of destructible environments (even if in a simpler way). Biotics bubbles and Flare/Lash in Omega were kinda a clue to me of what's to come.

I guess key word here is variety and evolution of choices. Next game isn't going to be a STEALTH game, but it may involve more significant mechanics related to it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Another idea I had for the game play and level design is to make the missions sandboxes. As usual the objective will generally be to get from point A to point B but in between those points there are a variety of corridors that can be taken, certain doors can only be opened if some one in your party has the necessary tech experience, certain mobs can be skipped through minor stealth mechanics, environmental objects that can be hacked or used to ambush enemies, etc.

Sure it'll take longer to develop but a Mass Effect game is sure to make the money back, right? One can hope.

Modifié par ImaginaryMatter, 12 février 2014 - 03:11 .

[Sumthing]

Slurms McKenzie wrote...

M920CAIN wrote...

He/she should not be a soldier, no relation to Alliance. He should not be working for a shaddy organization either, he should be your average joe schmoe getting in trouble while trying to make a living in the glorious world that is Mass Effect. His first experience with a gun should be of unfamiliarity and gun battles should not happen on every mission in order to reach the next objective

Tl;dr - more exploration, less shooting, playable character that isn't a fan of guns (in addition, I think stealth elements would be very welcome also the possibility of stunning generic mooks and not killing everything in your way)

so.... like what then? Teenage boy/girl stowaway on a mercantile ship, coming-of-age story in the ME universe?

How about this:
a kid who lives with his foster parents, his uncle and aunt, on a small desert planet, under the oppression of an evil empire, and he finds these two robots that actually escaped from this evil empire in the ownership of some travelling scavengers. Anyway, he and his uncle buy them to help maintain the farm and do work, and one of them starts showing a secret message with this beautiful woman in it asking for help and looking for some man. Anyway, the robot that displayed the message runs away, and he and the other robot go looking for it, but he is attacked by the natives on the planet, and almost killed, but saved by a mysterious hermit.

So, they head over to his place, and they get stuff sorted out, and he finds out he knew his father, and has a relic from him. So, he talks about his father, but he eventually heads off after he finds out that this empire would probably be looking for these robots. Anyway, when he heads home, he finds his foster parents have been murdered by the troops of the evil empire looking for the robots, so he heads with the old hermit to a spaceport he wanted him to go to, as he couldn't leave while his foster parents were alive.

Anyway, this city is full of the forces of the evil empire, and so they have to be careful, but the old hermit uses some kind of mysterious force to persuade them to let him and the boy, and the two robots pass through. So they head to a bar to charter passage off the world to another world, where the beautiful woman in the message supposedly came from. Anyway, they meet some smuggler, and his hairy alien companion, who is in debt to an intergalactic crime lord, and he lets them on for a large amount of money. So, they are about to leave, but the forces of the evil empire find them, and they get into a bit of a firefight before escaping.

So, they eventually get to the place the planet should be, but it isn't there, only a debris field. They eventually find a small moon, but it sucks them in, and it turns out it wasn't a moon, it was a spacestation. So they disguise themselves as the troops of the evil empire, who actually control the station, and head through while the old hermit gets to work disabling the tractor beam that sucked them in. So, they find the beautiful woman on board the station, imprisoned. They free her, and flee as they are found out. The old man has disabled the tractor beam, but just as they are about to escape, the right hand man of the evil emperor of the empire gets into a fight with the old hermit. He gets killed and the others are horrified, but they escape and meet up with a rebellion against the empire, and join them in their plans to destroy the space station, which was actually what destroyed the planet they were heading to. So the young person joins in the attack, and after a tough dogfight, ending with the smuggler who left coming back to save the protaganist from the evil right hand man of the emperor, who is blasted into space, and the space station is destroyed.

Anyway, that's the first game. The second game is sort of a bummer, where the rebellion's base on a different planet that they fled to is destroyed, and the smuggler is betrayed after he flees from it with the beautiful woman and his hairy alien comrade, and the protaganist finds out in a fight against the emperor's right hand man that he is really his father, John Shepard, who after taking severe damage from saving the universe was put in a mechanical life support suit. Also, in the third game, Shepard is redeemed, another space station is destroyed, and balance is brought back to the galaxy, and some other stuff.

So, I've come up with some names for the first game, I'm kinda liking one the best though. It is: Mass Effect IV: A New Hope

[M920CAIN]

Well a character that resembles Luke Skywalker is on the opposite side of Shepard's character so again I say why not? Maybe a bit of Skywalker + Han Solo (cause someone mentioned him too) + a bit of Indiana's passion for history - hell if Mass Effect 4 is set further in the future it could be a quest of archeology on finding out what happened during the Reaper Wars.. I dunno... ideas are many the time to implement them are few.

Combat vs. stealth gameplay seems to be a bit of a debate here. Well I'm greedy here and I don't really want to choose between the two. They both have a place in Mass Effect. I don't want Mass Effect 4 to be defined by its mechanics as a shooter or stealth game... that would be booring to me. Mass Effect has never really been about the shooting (at least for me)... otherwise there are plenty of shooters outhere that I could have wasted hundreds of hours on. Mass Effect has had these sort of elements:
- the idea of how our future could be like
- the idea of space travel made easy in order to facilitate exploration and expansion (of human interests for the most part)
- the unique characters and their backgrounds - few games have such elaborate background for their characters and give them such depth.. I'm pretty sure everyone on this site knows each character in the game if I just mention the name, in other games names are more easily forgotten, but here, no sir.
- the context given by side-missions - admitedly side missions have often been pretty boring from a gameplay perspective but the dialogue or the morals presented at the end of a side mission have always stuck with me.
- dialogue tree - I understand that auto-dialogue facilitates better cutscenes but they take away the inquisitive nature that we have as players so mix them a bit more in favor of less auto-dialogue (Mass Effect 2 was the best combination I think) but Mass Effect 3 had more emotional flavor I guess.

I could go on, but in any case, combat is there in ME1-3 but it's there to support the bullet points I mentioned so mixing combat and stealth shouldn't affect those bullet points or change the nature of what Mass Effect is about: story, characters, world itself.

Modifié par M920CAIN, 12 février 2014 - 02:38 .

[crimzontearz]

My suggestion.....make the game play FPS and dialogue TPS....why? Well, adds immersion and a level of awe inspired by the incredible design.

If anyone played Shadow Fall & Ryse (like I did) they know that, while Ryse is technically prettier (visually it is the sexiest next Gen title proving that it is not just the resolution that matters) and more solid, the immersion of Shadow Fall is superior (abandoned zero G Cassandra level anyone?).

Speaking of shadow fall....its art direction is VERY mass effect-y

[crimzontearz]

Also, options please, no offense to the OP but why ****** off people, like me, who DO like to be fans of guns when you can please both crowds?

[M920CAIN]

crimzontearz wrote...

Also, options please, no offense to the OP but why ****** off people, like me, who DO like to be fans of guns when you can please both crowds?

I like gunz too so there's no offense there. I kinda poorly expressed myself. The lack of guns isn't what I want. The choice of killing or not to kill is what I'm after more. I like guns, mods for guns and ammunition types a lot, I just don't want all my kills to be meaningless. This is the best I can explain it. I'm sure for example that no one feels bad for killing Cerberus soldiers in ME3, but think about it? did you hear private Talavi speak about her Cerberus indoctrinated brother? WHAT IF there was a way to save the Cerberus indoctrinated soldiers by the end of ME3? Not saying you should or if they deserve salvation or not, but it could've been an option. Another example is the CAT6 guys in Citadel DLC, you outright kill everything in the room and everyone in your crew supports you for it... but damn those CAT6 guys had no chances wouldn't it have been funny to see them surrender by the end of the level instead of just killing them to the last man? See I support killing to prove a point (that your team is more experienced and you're dominating the battle field) but sensless killing until the last man makes you ruthless and that's why a Paragon Shepard is still a Renegade if you think about it long enough.

As for the FPS thing you mentioned. Well I would ideally like the option of switching from TPS to FPS and back whenever I desire, I've seen games do it before. TPS gives it a more cinematic feel (which I like), FPS makes you believe you are seeing it through your own eyes so I get that too. I've grown up with more TPSes than FPSes so I'm biased on this, but why not both ?

Modifié par M920CAIN, 12 février 2014 - 03:16 .

[crimzontearz]

Yes, I agree with the above. Also, no kill runs made possible ala deus Ex/Thief alongside full on murderous playthroughs that make Crysis 3 and GOW look like viva piñata....options are good

[IoCaster]

SwobyJ wrote...

I don't think it'd be drastic.

If you want actual stealth gameplay then the changes will by necessity have to be drastic. The enemy AI will need to be rewritten to include patrols, search and detection. The level design will have to be altered to provide multiple paths to an objective. Be prepared to get your Thane on as you vent crawl across the galaxy. The lighting, sound design or both will need to be revamped as well depending on how detection will be implemented. Will you be able to hide in shadows? Will the sound of your foot steps reveal your location? There's always the option of doing it like they did in the Arrival DLC, but why would anyone want that?