84 réponses à ce sujet

[Maria Caliban]

Then what are you talking about?

[ziloe]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Then what are you talking about?

I believe I said it quite clearly at the bottom of my original post's first paragraph.

Modifié par ziloe, 13 février 2014 - 07:49 .

[drake heath]

Accents don't matter in writing.

Since it's not audio.

Modifié par drake heath, 13 février 2014 - 07:51 .

[ziloe]

drake heath wrote...

Accents don't matter in writing.

Since it's not audio.

But it's not just accents. When you're trying to display a culture in both tone and surroundings, there are obviously key features to mention.

I look back on books like Redwall, where the animals had different accents physically typed out on the page, but I find doing that constantly can stunt a potentially intriguing dialogue, or simply be too offputting because it sounds like too much of a stereotype. That said, what about their surroundings? How does one define a building or city without using such descriptions and references found in real world architecture, etc?

Modifié par ziloe, 13 février 2014 - 08:21 .

[CybAnt1]

If they start talking about the Eiffel Tower, Arche de Triomphe, and Moulin Rouge, we know they've been given directions that refer to the wrong epoch.

[Mary Kirby]

ziloe wrote...

Because when you're writing a fantasy book, you don't want to keep calling back to reality?

I can just imagine: "The party stumbled into town, exhausted. As the Inquisitor looked with weary eyes ahead, he was reminded of his home. These buildings were quite similar to those that could be found in the Capital of France."

Except that none of the places in Orlais are similar to those that could be found in France. 

If we have to describe elements of the setting in prose for a book, we do it the same way any other fantasy writer does: We describe what's there, not what inspired it. If the vaults of the palace celing are covered in jewelled mosaics depicting the life of Emperor Kordilius Drakon, and the gilded flying buttresses depict Blessed Andraste holding up the palace, that's what we write. Nothing in Paris looks like that, and even if we could write, "It looked sort of like Paris," which Paris would we mean? Not modern Paris. Eighteenth-century Paris? Seventeenth-century Paris? There's never been a single time period that combined the artistic elements of Orlesian architecture, which probably was also inspired by a lot of things that aren't French. France is the starting point, not where we end up.

[Fredward]

Mary Kirby wrote...
Except that none of the places in Orlais are similar to those that could be found in France. 

If we have to describe elements of the setting in prose for a book, we do it the same way any other fantasy writer does: We describe what's there, not what inspired it. If the vaults of the palace celing are covered in jewelled mosaics depicting the life of Emperor Kordilius Drakon, and the gilded flying buttresses depict Blessed Andraste holding up the palace, that's what we write. Nothing in Paris looks like that, and even if we could write, "It looked sort of like Paris," which Paris would we mean? Not modern Paris. Eighteenth-century Paris? Seventeenth-century Paris? There's never been a single time period that combined the artistic elements of Orlesian architecture, which probably was also inspired by a lot of things that aren't French. France is the starting point, not where we end up.

The mosaic depicting an emperer sounds like the ERE for instance. Buuuut maybe I've just been playing too much CK2.

Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 13 février 2014 - 08:50 .

[ziloe]

Mary Kirby wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Because when you're writing a fantasy book, you don't want to keep calling back to reality?

I can just imagine: "The party stumbled into town, exhausted. As the Inquisitor looked with weary eyes ahead, he was reminded of his home. These buildings were quite similar to those that could be found in the Capital of France."

Except that none of the places in Orlais are similar to those that could be found in France. 

If we have to describe elements of the setting in prose for a book, we do it the same way any other fantasy writer does: We describe what's there, not what inspired it. If the vaults of the palace celing are covered in jewelled mosaics depicting the life of Emperor Kordilius Drakon, and the gilded flying buttresses depict Blessed Andraste holding up the palace, that's what we write. Nothing in Paris looks like that, and even if we could write, "It looked sort of like Paris," which Paris would we mean? Not modern Paris. Eighteenth-century Paris? Seventeenth-century Paris? There's never been a single time period that combined the artistic elements of Orlesian architecture, which probably was also inspired by a lot of things that aren't French. France is the starting point, not where we end up.

That makes sense. I knew I should have added: "16th century," or something similar to my fake example.

I just remember reading the World of Thedas book, and the first section is about what inspired the world. The fact that I've played the series, I think makes it a lot easier for me to already see the things described, and thus kinda take them for granted. But when it comes to writing something entirely new, it gives me pause. I'm far too familiar with writing fiction that I think the idea of inserting fantastical lore, etc, escapes me.

However, if it's simply how one describes a place, I suppose the rest is simply left to the artist to envision on their own terms, yes? At least when it comes to fleshing it out in terms of environment creation, and so on. And not unlike what's left to the imagination of the reader.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ziloe wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Then what are you talking about?

I believe I said it quite clearly at the bottom of my original post's first paragraph.

Based on that paragraph, I thought you were talking about the writers describing the setting internally, amongst themselves, not in the game itself.

[ziloe]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

ziloe wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Then what are you talking about?

I believe I said it quite clearly at the bottom of my original post's first paragraph.

Based on that paragraph, I thought you were talking about the writers describing the setting internally, amongst themselves, not in the game itself.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I tried to fix it up with an edit, but eh, it's cool. Mistakes happen.

[Mary Kirby]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The mosaic depicting an emperer sounds like the ERE for instance. Buuuut maybe I've just been playing too much CK2.

You're never going to escape comparisons to something. 

You could start with, 'This is like Versaille, but on an asteroid in space." And then no matter how much you change, someone is going to say, "That one room you described sounds like Sainte-Chapelle." And that's not even a bad thing, because if they can compare it to something real, even if it's not the thing you were thinking of, then they can probably imagine what you described to some extent. So, mission accomplished anyway!

[fhs33721]

Honestly it isn't that hard. Lelina lacks the french accent in the german version of the game and I still figured that Orlais was Thedas version of France after two conversations with her.
Pro tip: The french sounding names and cultural similarities between orlais and what is steriotipically associated with France should tip you off.

Modifié par fhs33721, 13 février 2014 - 09:00 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Buuuut maybe I've just been playing too much CK2.

It is not possible to play too much CK2.

[mousestalker]

Mary Kirby wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The mosaic depicting an emperer sounds like the ERE for instance. Buuuut maybe I've just been playing too much CK2.

You're never going to escape comparisons to something. 

You could start with, 'This is like Versaille, but on an asteroid in space." And then no matter how much you change, someone is going to say, "That one room you described sounds like Sainte-Chapelle." And that's not even a bad thing, because if they can compare it to something real, even if it's not the thing you were thinking of, then they can probably imagine what you described to some extent. So, mission accomplished anyway!

So we are going to a Versaille inspired asteroid in space. The rumours were true! 

Modifié par mousestalker, 13 février 2014 - 09:13 .

[JeffZero]

That's the single-city setting for the next Mass Effect.

[ziloe]

JeffZero wrote...

That's the single-city setting for the next Mass Effect.

I always found it funny how that that's how planets are described, in general. You have this giant planet and go to one single place in it, and it's supposed to speak for all the cultures right there, all in that one little area.

Modifié par ziloe, 13 février 2014 - 09:35 .

[Fredward]

Mary Kirby wrote...
You're never going to escape comparisons to something. 

You could start with, 'This is like Versaille, but on an asteroid in space." And then no matter how much you change, someone is going to say, "That one room you described sounds like Sainte-Chapelle." And that's not even a bad thing, because if they can compare it to something real, even if it's not the thing you were thinking of, then they can probably imagine what you described to some extent. So, mission accomplished anyway!

Nihil novi sub sole [thank you Arcade!)? But yes I agree. Not only would it be crazy difficult to think of something completely new (it that's even possible but that's getting a smidge too philosophical for the BSN) but I can't imagine it's always the best idea for something you want people to consume. People seem to like the subversion of norms and tropes well enough (aSoIaF, Abercrombie's books, Breaking Bad) but they don't seem particularly fond of completely new stuff. For instance Daniel Abraham's The Long Price, medieval fantasy but it's set in Asia, has almost no war or fighting, a strange and unusual magic system with no fireballs to speak of, a MASSIVE emphasis on its characters and their interactions and the only character that could be called a hero among a host of very plebeian peeps is a woman. People seem to like a context their familiar with, you can invert the colours so it's new and snazzy and just the slightest hint of edgy but don't paint an entirely new backdrop or you'll lose them. BUT. I feel like now is a good time to mention that I haven't even read the OP and I'm not sure what this thread is about.

So... yeah.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
It is not possible to play too much CK2.

Except when you start thinking that assassinations are a completely reasonable way of dealing with excessively long queues.

[Grieving Natashina]

mousestalker wrote...


So we are going to a Versaille inspired asteroid in space. The rumours were true! 

Semi-confirmed rumor, you heard it here first folks! 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Except when you start thinking that assassinations are a completely reasonable way of dealing with excessively long queues.

Depends on the queue.

[Rotward]

Well, how do accents develop in the real world? Making up new accents isn't exactly easy.

[ziloe]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...
You're never going to escape comparisons to something. 

You could start with, 'This is like Versaille, but on an asteroid in space." And then no matter how much you change, someone is going to say, "That one room you described sounds like Sainte-Chapelle." And that's not even a bad thing, because if they can compare it to something real, even if it's not the thing you were thinking of, then they can probably imagine what you described to some extent. So, mission accomplished anyway!

Nihil novi sub sole [thank you Arcade!)? But yes I agree. Not only would it be crazy difficult to think of something completely new (it that's even possible but that's getting a smidge too philosophical for the BSN) but I can't imagine it's always the best idea for something you want people to consume. People seem to like the subversion of norms and tropes well enough (aSoIaF, Abercrombie's books, Breaking Bad) but they don't seem particularly fond of completely new stuff. For instance Daniel Abraham's The Long Price, medieval fantasy but it's set in Asia, has almost no war or fighting, a strange and unusual magic system with no fireballs to speak of, a MASSIVE emphasis on its characters and their interactions and the only character that could be called a hero among a host of very plebeian peeps is a woman. People seem to like a context their familiar with, you can invert the colours so it's new and snazzy and just the slightest hint of edgy but don't paint an entirely new backdrop or you'll lose them. BUT. I feel like now is a good time to mention that I haven't even read the OP and I'm not sure what this thread is about.

So... yeah.

I would have figured all that's been said throughout the thread, would make it make more sense, lol. Regardless, you have me intrigued by this Long Price book. That said, what's wrong with Abercrombies? I'm half way through the first one and I'm enjoying it so far.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Rotward wrote...

Well, how do accents develop in the real world?

Geographic isolation, and sometimes affectation.

[AtreiyaN7]

mousestalker wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

The mosaic depicting an emperer sounds like the ERE for instance. Buuuut maybe I've just been playing too much CK2.

You're never going to escape comparisons to something. 

You could start with, 'This is like Versaille, but on an asteroid in space." And then no matter how much you change, someone is going to say, "That one room you described sounds like Sainte-Chapelle." And that's not even a bad thing, because if they can compare it to something real, even if it's not the thing you were thinking of, then they can probably imagine what you described to some extent. So, mission accomplished anyway!

So we are going to a Versaille inspired asteroid in space. The rumours were true! 

Hmm, but if we're going to Versailles on an asteroid in space, how ever will the nobles manage to squish their sky-high wigs down to fit in their space helmets? Also, if they keep birds in their wigs, I'm a little concerned about the bird poop and/or crushed birds.

[drake heath]

ziloe wrote...
I would have figured all that's been said throughout the thread, would make it make more sense, lol. Regardless, you have me intrigued by this Long Price book. That said, what's wrong with Abercrombies? I'm half way through the first one and I'm enjoying it so far.

Abercrombie's a good writer, he just writes his novels to defy fantasy tropes and to be as dark as possible, it gets hard to read.

Like Best Served Cold, I had to slog through that because I got to the point where I barely cared what happened to anyone who wasn't Cosca or Friendly, they were just such terrible people that I got apethetic.

And the last book of the First Law trilogy got too dark, and it just annoyed me with how edgy it tried to be. Especially the ending.
But luckly he gave Best Served Cold an alright ending, it was just everything before that was too grim with no respite.

Abercrombie has a great prose, and voice, but he wants to be more edgy than he has to/should be.

[ziloe]

drake heath wrote...

ziloe wrote...
I would have figured all that's been said throughout the thread, would make it make more sense, lol. Regardless, you have me intrigued by this Long Price book. That said, what's wrong with Abercrombies? I'm half way through the first one and I'm enjoying it so far.

Abercrombie's a good writer, he just writes his novels to defy fantasy tropes and to be as dark as possible, it gets hard to read.

Like Best Served Cold, I had to slog through that because I got to the point where I barely cared what happened to anyone who wasn't Cosca or Friendly, they were just such terrible people that I got apethetic.

And the last book of the First Law trilogy got too dark, and it just annoyed me with how edgy it tried to be. Especially the ending.
But luckly he gave Best Served Cold an alright ending, it was just everything before that was too grim with no respite.

Abercrombie has a great prose, and voice, but he wants to be more edgy than he has to/should be.

I just needed something new to read, that wasn't fiction. And thought it was an interesting idea, since I wanted to avoid the game of thrones books, as I don't want to be that pretentious guy who complains about all the inaccuracies of the show, lol. Plus, I'm still waiting on the new DA book, which ugh, taking too long.

Either way, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Modifié par ziloe, 14 février 2014 - 03:44 .