Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Geographic isolation, and sometimes affectation.Rotward wrote...
Well, how do accents develop in the real world?
ziloe wrote...
I would have figured all that's been said throughout the thread, would make it make more sense, lol. Regardless, you have me intrigued by this Long Price book. That said, what's wrong with Abercrombies? I'm half way through the first one and I'm enjoying it so far.
If you had expressed yourself clearly then the first page wouldn't be people not knowing what you're talking about.ziloe wrote...
I believe I said it quite clearly at the bottom of my original post's first paragraph.Maria Caliban wrote...
Then what are you talking about?
Maria Caliban wrote...
If you had expressed yourself clearly then the first page wouldn't be people not knowing what you're talking about.ziloe wrote...
I believe I said it quite clearly at the bottom of my original post's first paragraph.Maria Caliban wrote...
Then what are you talking about?
Generally, those sorts of pronunciation changes aren't something driven by intent. Its a lot of work to keep up a fake accent 24/7.ziloe wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Geographic isolation, and sometimes affectation.Rotward wrote...
Well, how do accents develop in the real world?
You think anyone ever moved to an isolated place and started a family, all with keeping up a fake accent and in the pursuit of creating a new speech?
Modifié par Lord Aesir, 14 février 2014 - 07:45 .
Lord Aesir wrote...
Generally, those sorts of pronunciation changes aren't something driven by intent. Its a lot of work to keep up a fake accent 24/7.ziloe wrote...
Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Geographic isolation, and sometimes affectation.Rotward wrote...
Well, how do accents develop in the real world?
You think anyone ever moved to an isolated place and started a family, all with keeping up a fake accent and in the pursuit of creating a new speech?
No one's saying its impossible to affect a foreign accent. It's just generally unheard of for people to deliberately set out to pronounce things in new ways.ziloe wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Generally, those sorts of pronunciation changes aren't something driven by intent. Its a lot of work to keep up a fake accent 24/7.ziloe wrote...
You think anyone ever moved to an isolated place and started a family, all with keeping up a fake accent and in the pursuit of creating a new speech?Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Geographic isolation, and sometimes affectation.Rotward wrote...
Well, how do accents develop in the real world?
If habits can change, I'm sure they can be developed as well. At the moment I can't think of a real world example, but Geralt of Rivia sure did it, considering he's not actually from Rivia.
Lord Aesir wrote...
No one's saying its impossible to affect a foreign accent. It's just generally unheard of for people to deliberately set out to pronounce things in new ways.ziloe wrote...
Lord Aesir wrote...
Generally, those sorts of pronunciation changes aren't something driven by intent. Its a lot of work to keep up a fake accent 24/7.ziloe wrote...
You think anyone ever moved to an isolated place and started a family, all with keeping up a fake accent and in the pursuit of creating a new speech?Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Geographic isolation, and sometimes affectation.Rotward wrote...
Well, how do accents develop in the real world?
If habits can change, I'm sure they can be developed as well. At the moment I can't think of a real world example, but Geralt of Rivia sure did it, considering he's not actually from Rivia.
You're never going to escape comparisons to something.
Not agree. Especially in video games. I was quite surprised to hear French accent in DAO ; i got a weirdo feeling. Read something or hear something is quite different ; you have a distance in reading that you not have in hearing. It's a kind of introducting something from the real world into a fantasy world which do not fit ; as we say in French : on ne mélange pas les torchons et les serviettes. Because if Les Orlaisiens speak with a French accent in Ferelden, they have to speak French in Orlais : logical.
Will they ? I don't think so.
That's as long as the settings remain unchanged between the games, which is far from guaranteed -- pretty drastic modifications of elves and qunari between DA:O and DA2 come to mind.Because if Les Orlaisiens speak with a French accent in Ferelden, they have to speak French in Orlais : logical.
It's simple, writing a new language is HARD.
You have to create an alphabet and the words, then the sentence structure.
I would rather see the story then get bogged down in this bullshit, it's easier to get the story out if you are not worrying about writing people speaking in a language that you have to make up on your own.
Hooks into the real world or fantasy traditions allow easy understanding.
Then changing the rules make it interesting.
Elves and Dwarves are fantasy standards, but the DA twists: Picked on City Elves & Dalish and the Deep Roads for the Dwarves are wonderful ideas.
To quote the movie 'Inception':
"Never recreate places from your memory. Always imagine new places."
"Only use details, a street lamp or a phone booth, never entire areas."
"Because building a dream from your memory is the easiest way to lose your grasp on what's real and what is a dream."
Orlais uses French connections ( 
) but it is not France.
Hooks into the real world or fantasy traditions allow easy understanding.
Then changing the rules make it interesting.
Elves and Dwarves are fantasy standards, but the DA twists: Picked on City Elves & Dalish and the Deep Roads for the Dwarves are wonderful ideas.
To quote the movie 'Inception':
"Never recreate places from your memory. Always imagine new places."
"Only use details, a street lamp or a phone booth, never entire areas.""Because building a dream from your memory is the easiest way to lose your grasp on what's real and what is a dream."
Orlais uses French connections (
In that case understanding what ? Nothing has to be understood. What's the point of French accent in Orlaisians people who are a fantasy people ? I don't understand the point. This accent help to understanding what in DAO story ? Nothing. This accent set a frame of the real world into a fantasy one. Moreover, do they have French accent in the spanish, arabic (?), GERMAN, Russian, version of the game ?
Or is that it is a "private state-unian anglo-saxon anthropological thing in relation with France herself ?" Namely :
" We are not France, we'd like to be like them because French civilization is the beacon from we came as far as we can see, we love them, admire them, HATE them because of that : conquered by Guillaume, duc de Normandie, we've been impregnated by this foreign culture (which has introduced us in the European world), gave us between 30 and 60% of our english language vocabulary (depends of scholars), and became a kind of her, a part of her, without really succeed to match her.
In the same time, she's our ennemy since ages; but we've WON against Napoléon ; we got all North America off her, we shaped and shape the world as we want, we kill our ennemies with drones, we support the worst regimes in the world (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc), we destroy countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, etc), we nuked (Japan) and will do again if necessary, we got to the Moon, we have the DOLLAR, but we know that us, state-unian, are nothing comparing to her, we know that French people hate us, that they do not want to learn our globish rot language that we impose to the world as sign of our domination (even if we have 49 millions people in food stamps), we know that they will resist against us, may be they will nuke us with Russia, Iran, and China, toghether, finally nauseated by what we've done to this world, maybe someday it will be our turn, well deserved, because they will be fed up with our things (gogole, fesse-bouc, touitteur, etc) and SNOWDEN, the NSA, CIA, MONSANTO, etc. We know that, we know that we need to be rectified (we await correction within us, because we know we doing bad, but MONEY, you see, MONEY -Damn it ! a FRENCH word ! Oh my gosh!-, at any price lead us, from here to eternity) but she's got what we will never got and that we cannot fail to name.That's why in DAO Orlaisian people got a French accent.
That's the point, the real point, guys... the only one. 
In that case understanding what ? Nothing has to be understood. What's the point of French accent in Orlaisians people who are a fantasy people ? I don't understand the point. This accent help to understanding what in DAO story ? Nothing. This accent set a frame of the real world into a fantasy one. Moreover, do they have French accent in the spanish, arabic (?), GERMAN, Russian, version of the game ?
Or is that it is a "private state-unian anglo-saxon anthropological thing in relation with France herself ?" Namely :
" We are not France, we'd like to be like them because French civilization is the beacon from we came as far as we can see, we love them, admire them, HATE them because of that : conquered by Guillaume, duc de Normandie, we've been impregnated by this foreign culture (which has introduced us in the European world), gave us between 30 and 60% of our english language vocabulary (depends of scholars), and became a kind of her, a part of her, without really succeed to match her.
In the same time, she's our ennemy since ages; but we've WON against Napoléon ; we got all North America off her, we shaped and shape the world as we want, we kill our ennemies with drones, we support the worst regimes in the world (Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, etc), we destroy countries (Afghanistan, Iraq, etc), we nuked (Japan) and will do again if necessary, we got to the Moon, we have the DOLLAR, but we know that us, state-unian, are nothing comparing to her, we know that French people hate us, that they do not want to learn our globish rot language that we impose to the world as sign of our domination (even if we have 49 millions people in food stamps), we know that they will resist against us, may be they will nuke us with Russia, Iran, and China, toghether, finally nauseated by what we've done to this world, maybe someday it will be our turn, well deserved, because they will be fed up with our things (gogole, fesse-bouc, touitteur, etc) and SNOWDEN, the NSA, CIA, MONSANTO, etc. We know that, we know that we need to be rectified (we await correction within us, because we know we doing bad, but MONEY, you see, MONEY -Damn it ! a FRENCH word ! Oh my gosh!-, at any price lead us, from here to eternity) but she's got what we will never got and that we cannot fail to name.That's why in DAO Orlaisian people got a French accent.
That's the point, the real point, guys... the only one.
I disagree entirely, Orlaisian's have French accents for two reasons:
A - to make them different from Ferelden's, just like Antivans have an Italian accent.
B - because the Orlaisian Empire is based off the old French Empire; with its fashion trends, waring nobility, powerful Empress, passion for taking over small counties etc.
The French Empire was like the British Empire but with more style.
Your theory only works if we're supposed to hate Orlais or if we hate the French.
DA:O was set in Ferelden is obviously we get some anti-Orlaisian feeling but Leliana tells us of a different side to Orlais; the beauty of Val Royeaux, the kindness of Lady Cecile, the intricacies of the Game.
In DA:2, Asunder, and The Masked Empire, Orlaisian's in a similar way to Ferelden's in DA:O, normal people, trying to survive difficult times, some are good and some are bad but they are all just people.
The Dragon Age narrative does not paint the Orlaisian's as evil because they are from Orlais but as a people with diverse opinions and a different culture.
I'm glad the Orlaisian's have a French accent, it's something besides an English or American accent to listen to and I'll be very annoyed if they don't have them in DA:I
From what we've seen of the Orlaisian culture it makes sense for them to have a French accent, either that or a Russian one since they also could've been based on Tsarist Russian.
Just like it makes sense for the Antivans to have an Italian accents since they are a bunch of city states, loosely connected by a central ruler.
I also never got this hatred of the French or this assumption that French people hate English speaking countries. I mean the French and the British have been waring on and off for centuries and because of that they are totally interconnected. The French basically won the American War for Independance too, since they gave the Americans their only decent General and a TON of weapons.
Like any country with their own language they tend to appreciate it when you make an effort and not just speak slowly in english.
Of course I'm Irish and everyone likes us
I disagree entirely, Orlaisian's have French accents for two reasons:
A - to make them different from Ferelden's, just like Antivans have an Italian accent.
B - because the Orlaisian Empire is based off the old French Empire; with its fashion trends, waring nobility, powerful Empress, passion for taking over small counties etc.
The French Empire was like the British Empire but with more style.
Your theory only works if we're supposed to hate Orlais or if we hate the French.
DA:O was set in Ferelden is obviously we get some anti-Orlaisian feeling but Leliana tells us of a different side to Orlais; the beauty of Val Royeaux, the kindness of Lady Cecile, the intricacies of the Game.
In DA:2, Asunder, and The Masked Empire, Orlaisian's in a similar way to Ferelden's in DA:O, normal people, trying to survive difficult times, some are good and some are bad but they are all just people.
The Dragon Age narrative does not paint the Orlaisian's as evil because they are from Orlais but as a people with diverse opinions and a different culture.
I'm glad the Orlaisian's have a French accent, it's something besides an English or American accent to listen to and I'll be very annoyed if they don't have them in DA:I
From what we've seen of the Orlaisian culture it makes sense for them to have a French accent, either that or a Russian one since they also could've been based on Tsarist Russian.
Just like it makes sense for the Antivans to have an Italian accents since they are a bunch of city states, loosely connected by a central ruler.
I also never got this hatred of the French or this assumption that French people hate English speaking countries. I mean the French and the British have been waring on and off for centuries and because of that they are totally interconnected. The French basically won the American War for Independance too, since they gave the Americans their only decent General and a TON of weapons.
Like any country with their own language they tend to appreciate it when you make an effort and not just speak slowly in english.
Of course I'm Irish and everyone likes us
Getting to the point : I was talking about DAO, i do not know Antivian people with Italian accent in this game.
1. You do not explain the need of an accent ; saying that Orlaisians are not Fereldan should be enough (and it is), no need de add something from the real world.
2. "because the Orlaisian Empire is based off the old French Empire" so they have to speak French in Orlais, do they ?
3.You're Irish, not State-Unian ; you're not concerned .
Getting to the point : I was talking about DAO, i do not know Antivian people with Italian accent in this game.
1. You do not explain the need of an accent ; saying that Orlaisians are not Fereldan should be enough (and it is), no need de add something from the real world.
2. "because the Orlaisian Empire is based off the old French Empire" so they have to speak French in Orlais, do they ?
3.You're Irish, not State-Unian ; you're not concerned .
1. Zevran, had an italian accent. People from different countries have different accents, it would be weird if Orlaisians had the same accent as Fereldans
2. They don't have to have a French accent, but why not? It fits with the overall theme of the Orlaisian Empire.
3. I'm Irish so I can't have an opinion on your theory or on the Orlaisian accent? If that is the case, why create a theory that only applies to the US - when this is a game played worldwide by multiple english speaking nations
Of course, but if you have a specific vision for your characters, there will no doubt be more than simply, "an elegant accent," etc, I assume. I'm especially curious because it's no doubt easier to simply explain in the writer's room, "Think Germany," then to have to come up with something fancy. However, when it comes to a book, you just can't do that.
I imagine it's the opposite of what you described, they came up with the idea of a "sophisticated" culture with stuffy people and then later decided on what type of accent fit them best. Of course when it comes to actual writing you can do whatever you want just by describing it where as in a video game or other media that we can actually hear, you can't just come up with a completely unique accent or else it'll just sound weird and unrealistic because of the nature of accents.... and i guess that also ties the architecture and culture into it as well, if they'd have stopped at only giving Orlesians french accents with a completely different culture/architectural style then it may have been a tad too out place... imagine Orlesians walking around a unique looking city with absolutely no french influences, it's just odd and may interfere with people's immersion (at least it would've for me)
ATTN: Pay Attention to me. I've nothing useful to say, but I nonetheless desire your attention. Other forumites' attention is too low class for me so I must have Bioware writers' attention.
Moar attention.
1. Zevran, had an italian accent. People from different countries have different accents, it would be weird if Orlaisians had the same accent as Fereldans
2. They don't have to have a French accent, but why not? It fits with the overall theme of the Orlaisian Empire.
3. I'm Irish so I can't have an opinion on your theory or on the Orlaisian accent? If that is the case, why create a theory that only applies to the US - when this is a game played worldwide by multiple english speaking nations
1. I did not recognize as "Italian" the Zevran accent, i do not even remember he got one. The name "Zevran" itself has nothing of "Italian". the Zevran and Sten case are enough fuzzy to let people free of put sure real world thingies in them. Which is not the case with Orlais.
2. To be coherent, they have to speak French in Orlais then. Do they ? Ask the question is answer it. So it is not a question of "fitting the overall theme of Orlais" as you said, unless all the language version of the game got this French accent which is not the case. The writers do not care of Russians, Germans, Spanish, Polish, etc hearing accent. They only care that english speaking people hear it.Because this happens only in the native version of the game : so it is specific to the people who write it. What are these people ? State-unian people who, in fact, write a game for english-speaking and cultural anglo-saxon people like them.
1. I did not recognize as "Italian" the Zevran accent, i do not even remember he got one. The name "Zevran" itself has nothing of "Italian". the Zevran and Sten case are enough fuzzy to let people free of put sure real world thingies in them. Which is not the case with Orlais.
2. To be coherent, they have to speak French in Orlais then. Do they ? Ask the question is answer it. So it is not a question of "fitting the overall theme of Orlais" as you said, unless all the language version of the game got this French accent which is not the case. The writers do not care of Russians, Germans, Spanish, Polish, etc hearing accent. They only care that english speaking people hear it.Because this happens only in the native version of the game : so it is specific to the people who write it. What are these people ? State-unian people who, in fact, write a game for english-speaking and cultural anglo-saxon people like them.
1. You not recognizing his accent doesn't stop it being an Italian accent or an Italian sound like accent. While his first name may not sound Italian to you but surely his surname 'Arainai' is an Italian sounding surname. It's not just Zevran, all Antivan accents are italian/italian sound like; Castillon,Cesar,Ignacio, Veslasco etc.
Also what we know of Antiva screams renaissance Italy
2. I've no idea of the other language versions of Dragon Age games reflect the different accents of Orlesians,Antivans, Dalish etc. but if they don't I think you might be reading too much into it.
The writers are English speaking so when they create dialogue it has a bias to the English language.
When translating you don't just translate word for word you need to take the essence of the sentence and translate it, which is very difficult a lot of effect must be put into doing this, the lack of different accents could be a cost issue or it could be because a French Accent speaking Polish or Russian probably sounds too ridiculous to take seriously.
If what you are saying is true, surely they would also make sure the French Accent was in the Spanish version because the Spanish SUPER hate the French, particularly Northern Spain.
At the end of the day the French Accent suits the Orlesian Empire. The Orlesian Empire is not the 'enemy' in Dragon Age.
Surely we can all agree that it is nice to hear an accent in a video game that is not American or British.
1. You not recognizing his accent doesn't stop it being an Italian accent or an Italian sound like accent. While his first name may not sound Italian to you but surely his surname 'Arainai' is an Italian sounding surname. It's not just Zevran, all Antivan accents are italian/italian sound like; Castillon,Cesar,Ignacio, Veslasco etc.
Also what we know of Antiva screams renaissance Italy
2. I've no idea of the other language versions of Dragon Age games reflect the different accents of Orlesians,Antivans, Dalish etc. but if they don't I think you might be reading too much into it.
The writers are English speaking so when they create dialogue it has a bias to the English language.
When translating you don't just translate word for word you need to take the essence of the sentence and translate it, which is very difficult a lot of effect must be put into doing this, the lack of different accents could be a cost issue or it could be because a French Accent speaking Polish or Russian probably sounds too ridiculous to take seriously.
If what you are saying is true, surely they would also make sure the French Accent was in the Spanish version because the Spanish SUPER hate the French, particularly Northern Spain.
At the end of the day the French Accent suits the Orlesian Empire. The Orlesian Empire is not the 'enemy' in Dragon Age.
Surely we can all agree that it is nice to hear an accent in a video game that is not American or British.
1. It stops it, because simply i did not recognize it : I'm French, here in France we very know italian accent (many people from Italy speak French and some intervene in french media, we got songs, etc), i think better than any anglo-saxon people... So i recognize very well an italian accent. "Arainai " has nothing of "italian" as "Zevran" ; none of this two words are related to the root of Italia : Latin and German (contrary of the french names of Orlais where there is no ambiguity + the accent).
"Castillon" is not Italian but French, as well as "Cesar" which is a French form of "Cesare" and do not exist at all in Italy as name.
Ignacio and Veslaco are the same : they are Spanish names.
If i was not right, Bioware would have, as i said already, put french accent in all the version of the game, but it did not. Which validate my little laïus above about France and the anglo saxon world which do not care at all of Italia or Germany. This anglo saxon world care about France because he loves/hates/admires her and knows that in Europe, it is the soil ennemy ; the others are nothing from his point of view. (Not mine of course...).
I would say that Zehvran was Spanish. Not Italian (especially since I was just in italy recently)
I would say that Zehvran was Spanish. Not Italian (especially since I was just in italy recently)
In any case Italian... that's my point...
1. It stops it, because simply i did not recognize it : I'm French, here in France we very know italian accent (many people from Italy speak French and some intervene in french media, we got songs, etc), i think better than any anglo-saxon people... So i recognize very well an italian accent. "Arainai " has nothing of "italian" as "Zevran" ; none of this two words are related to the root of Italia : Latin and German (contrary of the french names of Orlais where there is no ambiguity + the accent).
"Castillon" is not Italian but French, as well as "Cesar" which is a French form of "Cesare" and do not exist at all in Italy as name.
Ignacio and Veslaco are the same : they are Spanish names.
If i was not right, Bioware would have, as i said already, put french accent in all the version of the game, but it did not. Which validate my little laïus above about France and the anglo saxon world which do not care at all of Italia or Germany. This anglo saxon world care about France because he loves/hates/admires her and knows that in Europe, it is the soil ennemy ; the others are nothing from his point of view. (Not mine of course...).
They all sound more Italian to me then Spanish, at least they sound more like the Italian people that I've met in Dublin then the Spanish. I work in an International Company so I've heard a lot of the Italian and Spanish regional accents. Veslaco in particular sounds to me like he is from Sicily.
Perhaps its a composite accent?
Anyway, I still don't agree, but perhaps, as you've stated, this is because I don't come from a background where the French are view as such.
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