126 réponses à ce sujet

[mybudgee]

simfamSP wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sex and nudity is part of life, very simple. If you're a prude then go away.

C'mon, House, did you not read my post? I honestly don't care about nudity or sex, I enjoy the damn things when they're in it, I'm a kid like that. I'm just asking if there is a higher purpose for all of it, or if it is as simple as 'because.'

OP: Get ready for this-- There isn't a higher purpose for ANYTHING!

[Br3admax]

spirosz wrote...

Br3ad wrote...
The scense aren't the only thing that's pointless. The way the romance plots unfold make them, the romances, pointless. If my life pans out like a BioWare romance, I'll go celibate. 

But what do you expect to do under restraints of gameplay and in terms of story telling pacing, if it was like life, shit, then games have gotten pretty complicated where I probably wouldn't want those in there at all, ha.  Personally though, none of the romances really hit me in Dragon Age, compared to Jack or Bioware's older title involving Bastila in KOTOR, which worked tremendously because it was tied into the story plot, which I believe they should do more often or not have romances at all.  But again, as you know - I find that it helps create a more personal story for me, however silly it tends to unfold in terms of, talk to her three times and "romance" scene formula they tend to stick by.  I tend to look past that, since it doesn't bug me. 

I just don't find how a poorly done scene shows these connections. If you want the intimency, fade to black. If you want some sort of statement about lust, go full on and animate it well. If you are going for that middle ground, do both in a tasteful way. But don't halfass nudity just for nudity. 


As to the topic as a whole, do you like looking at naked people? There's your answer.(obviously talking to the majority, I know there are a few prudish)

Modifié par Br3ad, 14 février 2014 - 02:22 .

[dreamgazer]

simfamSP wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sex and nudity is part of life, very simple. If you're a prude then go away.

C'mon, House, did you not read my post? I honestly don't care about nudity or sex, I enjoy the damn things when they're in it, I'm a kid like that. I'm just asking if there is a higher purpose for all of it, or if it is as simple as 'because.'

If the vaguely philosophical "sex and nudity is life" doesn't cut it, then this is the other side of it:

[slimgrin]

simfamSP wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Sex and nudity is part of life, very simple. If you're a prude then go away.

C'mon, House, did you not read my post? I honestly don't care about nudity or sex, I enjoy the damn things when they're in it, I'm a kid like that. I'm just asking if there is a higher purpose for all of it, or if it is as simple as 'because.'

There *can* be a higher purpose, if one believes sex and romance transcend our filthy little monkey brains. I'll admit, movies f*ck it up a lot, and games do even more. But that's no reason to shy away from the topic. Games get a bad rap because the writing and visuals frequently aren't up to the task.

[LuckyBullet95]

@Br3ad finally something I can understand about your stance. BioWare does a horrible job at storytelling when it doesn't involve cool guns, cool swords and/or a plot to destroy the world. Oh or the force... They certainly could do with getting better writers off the romantic sub-plot (that being said ME3 was a single leap and bound better than ME1 and ME2 where it was literally "You talked to me a lot, I feel obligated to slip you one because suicide mission."

However from a content standpoint there is no reason sex and/nudity shouldn't be explored to the depths that murder, terrorism, substance abuse,kidnapping, drug dealing or any other mature theme are. A mature show or game should be allowed to explore mature themes regardless of the controversy of the content without its quailty being scrutinised just for the inclusion of said theme.

China banning BF4 because of the China Rising DLC is laughable to me. Relgious advocators that were offended by the story or premise of BioShock Infinite is laughable to me. Fox News allowing McCallum to claim that Mass Effect 1 had fully interactive and explicitly graphic sex scenes, despite the fact she had never even played the game, is laughable to me. At the end of the day all they are storylines or occurences in a fictious world that helps the reader better connect with the world (BI and ME) or is use as a framing device (BF and BI). They do not overstep their certified rating and anyone taking offense at such things are being irrational.

I do not believe the image of China's culture and army were smeared by the introduction of four maps based in or on China, in fact the only people whom I heard recieved it that way is the Chinese Government itself. There was invasion of Chinese culture until its very own government labelled it as such. Honestly the idea that they are so worked up about the implications of MP elements of a video slandering their culture has me more concerned with China than the fact that Russia hasn't gave a flying fuck about being identified as the antagonistic terrorists in every single other FPS game in existence.... Well apart from MW2 which was a little too harrowing a scene for them to expect Russians to not object to (nothing like getting someone whom is drawn into the story and world to murder 4000 innocent civilans of the same nationality in an airport based on a real life one.

[dreamgazer]

simfamSP wrote...

So why did GRR Martin need to go into detail about how Khal Drogo pounded on Dany on multiple occasions?

Those actually had a narrative purpose by focusing on Dany's virginity and need to please Drogo, or else.

If you want indulgent, try Cersei and Jamie's "reunion" following his time with Brienne. 

[Br3admax]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

@Br3ad finally something I can understand about your stance.

You thought I hate romance or something? No way. Secretly, I'm a romantic. In fact I have a very good selection of reading that involves warm snooches, throbs, buttermilk bossoms, and galloping abs. 

Modifié par Br3ad, 14 février 2014 - 03:16 .

[spirosz]

Br3ad wrote...

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

@Br3ad finally something I can understand about your stance.

You thought I hate romance or something? No way. Secretly, I'm a romantic. In fact I have a very good selection of reading that involves wam snooches, throbs, buttermilk bossoms, and galloping abs. 

[slimgrin]

simfamSP wrote...

You called?

Yo, wassup?

There *can* be a higher purpose, if one believes sex and romance transcend our filthy little monkey brains. I'll admit, movies f*ck it up a lot, and games do even more. But that's no reason to shy away from the topic. Games get a bad rap because the writing and visuals frequently aren't up to the task.

It depends which game we're on about though. I think most of us can agree that TW2 (and yes, I'm using this as an example because it's a game that *does* have a lot of [optional] sex in it) it superbly written but its scenes are often given trash, yet, if one were to translate those scenes into literature, given that the quality of writing is the same or even better, I can guess that those complaints would disappear, or at least be greatly reduced in number.

So why did GRR Martin need to go into detail about how Khal Drogo pounded on Dany on multiple occasions? Why did Stephen Donaldson need to go into detail about Lena's rape? Was it to enforce the drama, romance (no not Lena guys, that'd be sick,) or the realism of the situation? Was it to make a statement such as "this is a no bull**** book" or was it there for the sake of it? But Tolkien completely ignored the fact and just informed us of Turin's (unknown) incest through "yeah, your pregnant." Though thinking about it, a sex scene written in Tolkien's prose would either be painful or very romantic.

Martin isn't what I'd call a disciplined writer. I think he gives in to prurience once in a while, alongside his tendancy to kill off major characters.

Sex in The Witcher is rarely serious, it's meant to be bawdy and irreverent, even with serious romances like Vess and Triss.

You want a great example of graphic sex in service of art? The Swedish version of Girl with a Dragon Tattoo. It was rape, it was brutal, it had to be explicit. 

[Br3admax]

Nope. Not touching that subject. Things just got weird....er.

[slimgrin]

Br3ad wrote...

Nope. Not touching that subject. Things just got weird....er.

But the movie was well regarded despite showing a darker side of sex and vulnerablity. It also had a very effective intimate sex scene. 

[spirosz]

I prefer the American version. Usually I'm a much bigger fan of the foreign films, both good though.

[Br3admax]

slimgrin wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Nope. Not touching that subject. Things just got weird....er.

But the movie was well regarded despite showing a darker side of sex and vulnerablity. It also had a very effective intimate sex scene. 

Not saying the movie was bad. I'm saying that I'm not even going to comment on the use of rape to show anything. 

[Fortlowe]

Is this a trick question?

[Han Shot First]

Greylycantrope wrote...

Nudity is part of the human condition. I do sometimes feel people make too big a deal out of it though.

Considering many people find portrayals of it on film (or in video games) more offensive than graphic violence, they certainly do.

[brushyourteeth]

Think the word "prude" is kind of an immature way to just discredit the opinion of someone who doesn't feel nudity has much to add to whatever medium you're talking about.

It's not really fair or a good way to contribute to a productive conversation IMO.

I've never felt like nudity added anything super valuable to a movie, game, or book that couldn't have been achieved just as effectively without it being explicit. But that's just my experience -- I really only get passionate about it when it comes to games (because those are resources I'd love to see allocated toward something I'm actually interested in) and shows like HBO's Game of Thrones, where the books themselves were already plenty explicit and the extra nudity on the show made me feel like my intelligence as a viewer was being insulted because LOLyou'llbebackbecausenipples. o.O

Anyway, I don't think it'd be fair or productive to throw the word "prude" at someone like me -- I'm not afraid of sex, I just don't think it ads much that I find super enjoyable or necessary. It's an ugly word used to dismiss the potentially valid opinions of people you just might not agree with. :/

[slimgrin]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Think the word "prude" is kind of an immature way to just discredit the opinion of someone who doesn't feel nudity has much to add to whatever medium you're talking about.

It's not really fair or a good way to contribute to a productive conversation IMO.

I've never felt like nudity added anything super valuable to a movie, game, or book that couldn't have been achieved just as effectively without it being explicit. But that's just my experience -- I really only get passionate about it when it comes to games (because those are resources I'd love to see allocated toward something I'm actually interested in) and shows like HBO's Game of Thrones, where the books themselves were already plenty explicit and the extra nudity on the show made me feel like my intelligence as a viewer was being insulted because LOLyou'llbebackbecausenipples. o.O

Anyway, I don't think it'd be fair or productive to throw the word "prude" at someone like me -- I'm not afraid of sex, I just don't think it ads much that I find super enjoyable or necessary. It's an ugly word used to dismiss the potentially valid opinions of people you just might not agree with. :/

Seems productive enough to throw around from my view point. At least to the extent of lighten the hell up, it's just sex.

[Addai]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Think the word "prude" is kind of an immature way to just discredit the opinion of someone who doesn't feel nudity has much to add to whatever medium you're talking about.

It's not really fair or a good way to contribute to a productive conversation IMO.

I've never felt like nudity added anything super valuable to a movie, game, or book that couldn't have been achieved just as effectively without it being explicit. But that's just my experience -- I really only get passionate about it when it comes to games (because those are resources I'd love to see allocated toward something I'm actually interested in) and shows like HBO's Game of Thrones, where the books themselves were already plenty explicit and the extra nudity on the show made me feel like my intelligence as a viewer was being insulted because LOLyou'llbebackbecausenipples. o.O

Anyway, I don't think it'd be fair or productive to throw the word "prude" at someone like me -- I'm not afraid of sex, I just don't think it ads much that I find super enjoyable or necessary. It's an ugly word used to dismiss the potentially valid opinions of people you just might not agree with. :/

That's why I said such discussions should stay away from morality and focus on aesthetics. There are going to be different tastes, and it is very difficult to present something which is essentially so undignified, intimate and powerful in ways that both add to a story and don't cheapen the story or the audience. I agree that GoT goes too far. They even admit that they key scenes to adolescent, prurient tastes. Martin doesn't really go on and on with his sex scenes. Often they're short and illustrate something going on with the character. He's more indulgent in his descriptions of food.

But I have to disagree that nudity adds nothing. If the scene calls for nudity, it should be unflinching.

One of the films that comes to mind on the subject of how intimate scenes can illuminate characters is the movie Munich. Early on they show Eric Bana's character having sex with his pregnant wife, looking at her and talking to her. Towards the end of the film they show him... almost brutalizing, not just her, but himself, and he can't look at her.  It becomes a storytelling tool. I suppose you could achieve the same thing more subtly but if you want to bare characters, you have to go there.

Modifié par Addai67, 14 février 2014 - 07:27 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

HARD FACT:
****** in Witcher and GoT => More fan and audiences! => Overpraising them / Overshadowing other aspects

*facepalm*

Modifié par Kaiser Arian, 14 février 2014 - 07:37 .