187 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

Greylycantrope wrote...

These characters aren't from a Grisham novel though, Miranda never denies her shady actions, she doesn't need to tell you about the chip you know nothing about it.

dreamgazer wrote...
There are no reasons why she wouldn't know about it.

There is if you remember how Cerberus was set up to operate, different teams aren't supposed to know what the others are doing.

QFT

[dreamgazer]

wright1978 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Of course there are (added ethical guilt, no prior warning to Shepard, etc.), but I understand how that might intrude on player headcanon of Miranda's character. It would make zero sense, however, for the head of Lazarus to not know about the production of a clone off their subject.

TIM has repeatedly been extremely secretive. It makes complete sense for him to be hedging his bets and working in parrallel with an alternate scheme in case project Lazarus fails. There's zero need for her to be directly implicated in it. If they'd wanted her directly implicated in plot they had the perfect opportunity to have her admit her full knowledge of it in the citadel dlc. Really having Walters coming back and retconning in this ***** comic is the height of scumminess.

There's every reason for her to be directly implicated. 

What good would admitting her involvement do, though? And why must she be completely honest?

[wright1978]

dreamgazer wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...
There are no reasons why she wouldn't know about it.

There is if you remember how Cerberus was set up to operate, different teams aren't supposed to know what the others are doing.

And the resources needed to clone Shepard just slipped under the nose of TIM's second-in-command and the head of the resurrection project using the body? Please.

I highly doubt the illusive files full accounts and shares them with Miranda.

[CroGamer002]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The way Cerberus was set up was that operatives wouldn't even know who operatives were unless they were assigned to work with them, let alone know what the other cells were doing.

Kinda retarded if you ask me but then again it was set up so one individual could control everyone else, so meh.

Actually it makes sense, as it betters stops any sort of leaks and if some leak happens other cells are not compromised, more centrilized organization, limits posibility of infighthing and etc.


But Bioware thrown that out of the window long time ago.

[Dr_Extrem]

Greylycantrope wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
Characters do not always tell the truth, they are not always established lore.

For example

Obi Won: Vader betrayed and murdered your father.

Vader: No Luke, I'm your father.

Not the best example. Certian point of view etc.

yes .. its a really bad example

vader did kill anakin skywalker - on a metaphysical plane.


anakin skywalker - a good person corrupted by guilt, false hope, fear and bad influence. anakin was made to believe, that turning into darth vader (descending into the darkness) would save his love and bring him his mother back. sadly, once he turned into vader, he had no longer control over his fate - he jumped into the abyss, killed the jedi at the temple and became what he tried to destroy. the classic theme of the fallen hero.

the moment he helped palpatine, anakin died and vader took over.


his decision to turn on the jedi sealed his fate.


therefore it is true - vader killed skywalker in the battle within.



btw ... this comic makes me cringe ... the next loved mass effect character is assasinated. now mirande - the person with the nearly perfect memory can not remember former colleages and the fact, that she cloned shepard as a backup.

this is not only a plot hole .. its a plot-abyss

Modifié par Dr_Extrem, 14 février 2014 - 08:41 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Miranda never released the clone. She's not implicated in the plot of the clone for the Citadel DLC. That's Brooks. The fact that she knew of the clone's existence and the possibility that the clone could be used as a backup in case Lazarus failed is another story altogether. That's something she doesn't want to be implicated in. That would be infiltrating the Alliance military with a Cerberus operative. Rest assured the clone would have had a control chip. This is not a retcon. It's background.

EDIT: But I'll admit, this is not a novel. It is a stupid comic book. Comic book characters are not complex. They are supposed to be simple. Comic book plots are supposed to be simple. The writing in these is horrid from what I've seen.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 14 février 2014 - 08:43 .

[Lawrence0294]

dreamgazer wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Of course there are (added ethical guilt, no prior warning to Shepard, etc.), but I understand how that might intrude on player headcanon of Miranda's character. It would make zero sense, however, for the head of Lazarus to not know about the production of a clone off their subject.

TIM has repeatedly been extremely secretive. It makes complete sense for him to be hedging his bets and working in parrallel with an alternate scheme in case project Lazarus fails. There's zero need for her to be directly implicated in it. If they'd wanted her directly implicated in plot they had the perfect opportunity to have her admit her full knowledge of it in the citadel dlc. Really having Walters coming back and retconning in this ***** comic is the height of scumminess.

There's every reason for her to be directly implicated. 

What good would admitting her involvement do, though? And why must she be completely honest?

There is no reason for her not to "admit" it and inform Shepard. She didn't do anything wrong so why act as if it was unheard news ?

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreamgazer wrote...
And the resources needed to clone Shepard just slipped under the nose of TIM's second-in-command and the head of the resurrection project using the body? Please.

When was she his second in command? She was certianly high up but I don't remember her being privy to every operation in existance. Miranda even tells you the resurrection project was aimed at rebuilding Shepard not recreating them, according to the clone it was just grown for spare parts. She was probably aware of it on the level of them cloning spare body parts or tissues since that's fairly standard medical procedure in the ME universe, you can even see the Bataraians employing it in the first book.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 février 2014 - 08:43 .

[Iakus]

txgoldrush wrote...

What can't fans learn their lesson here......just because a character says something, does NOT make it established lore.

Actually, yes it does.  Unless the player is given reason to believe they are lying or in error.

Shepard (and the player) have no reason to think either of Miranda

[wright1978]

Lawrence0294 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

wright1978 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Of course there are (added ethical guilt, no prior warning to Shepard, etc.), but I understand how that might intrude on player headcanon of Miranda's character. It would make zero sense, however, for the head of Lazarus to not know about the production of a clone off their subject.

TIM has repeatedly been extremely secretive. It makes complete sense for him to be hedging his bets and working in parrallel with an alternate scheme in case project Lazarus fails. There's zero need for her to be directly implicated in it. If they'd wanted her directly implicated in plot they had the perfect opportunity to have her admit her full knowledge of it in the citadel dlc. Really having Walters coming back and retconning in this ***** comic is the height of scumminess.

There's every reason for her to be directly implicated. 

What good would admitting her involvement do, though? And why must she be completely honest?

There is no reason for her not to "admit" it and inform Shepard. She didn't do anything wrong so why act as if it was unheard news ?

Yep especially as She's asked directly by Shep.

[Han Shot First]

What happened behind the scenes: Mac Walters likely forgot about that dialogue in the Citadel DLC. Oops.

What it now means: Miranda is a liar, who even keeps Shepard in the dark if the two are in a relationship.

[TuringPoint]

I don't remember Miranda saying she had no knowledge of the clone. If anything her statements imply limited knowledge, although the comic flies in the face of that. Still, that is not a lie, more stretching of the truth from the writers to make a peripheral character relevant.

Miranda did, in fact, admit to interacting with Brooks. We don't see her comply with breaking the clone free, in fact she describes why the clone won't work, it's not what TIM wants, in the comic.

Just having a clone is pretty cheesy, it was entertaining like Star Wars plots, you try extending on it and it stops making actual sense.

Modifié par Alocormin, 14 février 2014 - 08:51 .

[Barquiel]

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

What can't fans learn their lesson here......just because a character says something, does NOT make it established lore.

Actually, yes it does.  Unless the player is given reason to believe they are lying or in error.

Shepard (and the player) have no reason to think either of Miranda

Maybe it will be explained later in the comic why Miranda was lying about the clone in the Citadel DLC? We don't know the whole story yet...

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Han Shot First wrote...

What happened behind the scenes: Mac Walters likely forgot about that dialogue in the Citadel DLC. Oops.

What it now means: Miranda is a liar, who even keeps Shepard in the dark if the two are in a relationship.

I was married to a guy like this. So, this wouldn't surpise me one bit.

[wright1978]

inconsiderate rick wrote...

Dialogue from the Citadel DLC:

Miranda: It did. So... a clone?
Shepard: Yeah, saw it myself. Did you know anything about this?
Miranda: Just rumors. Nothing really caught my attention. But about this Brooks...

[Lawrence0294]

Alocormin wrote...

I don't remember Miranda saying she had no knowledge of the clone. If anything her statements imply limited knowledge, although the comic flies in the face of that. Still, that is not a lie, more stretching of the truth on the writers to make a peripheral character relevant.

Miranda did, in fact, admit to interacting with Brooks. We don't see her comply with breaking the clone free, in fact she describes why the clone won't work, it's not what TIM wants.

She also called Brook Rasa when in Citadel she said she knew her by the name of Hope Lillium

Modifié par Lawrence0294, 14 février 2014 - 08:51 .

[Ymladdych]

wright1978 wrote...
There are no reasons imo why she wouldn't tell Shep.

Sure there are, and they might be very good reasons.

Like...

What if she knows that Shepard in ME2/ME3 really *isn't* the same person as he/she was in ME1? What if Shepard's organic memories weren't fully intact and had to be "supplemented" artificially?

I mean, you have to ask yourself, why does Miranda need to know "everything" about Commander Shepard's past? As to why she'd lie if this were true, well...I'd guess that she didn't think it was a good time to risk a permanent mind-boink on the Commander.

[Daemul]

Guys, wait until the comic actually comes out first before going crazy.

[noobcannon]

miranda wasnt in my citadel dlc playthrough so this doesnt affect me directly i guess. does seem like a bit of a screw up though.

[Armass81]

Steelcan wrote...



has BioWare even HEARD of lore consistency?

This is Walters.

Walters just pulls this stuff out of his arse....

[TuringPoint]

You could construe just rumors any number of ways other than lying. The name thing is an inconsistency, which doesn't effect the plot itself.

They will need to justify her later ignorance about the clone.

It does seem deliberate, that they put her in contact with Miranda.  "In the interests of fanservice" is my estimation of their intentions with that.

Modifié par Alocormin, 14 février 2014 - 09:01 .

[Iakus]

Barquiel wrote...

iakus wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

What can't fans learn their lesson here......just because a character says something, does NOT make it established lore.

Actually, yes it does.  Unless the player is given reason to believe they are lying or in error.

Shepard (and the player) have no reason to think either of Miranda

Maybe it will be explained later in the comic why Miranda was lying about the clone in the Citadel DLC? We don't know the whole story yet...

While that is technically possible, past performance isn't exactly filling me with hope.