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[Divine Justinia V]

Do you not recall his note to him in his lair?

 

Stating how amazed he was with his experiments? 

 

He was supporting an insane apostate with research materials and when he died, he covered up his involvement.

 

His reasons for this are debatable, the actions themselves aren't.

 

My point is; That circle was corrupt to its upper most echelons.

 

Needed to burn a long time before it did.

I'm not saying his actions were acceptable or that I support them, I'm saying I understand why he did it.

I still don't think every Mage deserved to die beecause of this, hundreds of deaths for being amazed at discovery? Hundreds of innocents slaughtered for the actions of a Mage that didn't even belong to the Circle? Naaa. I just can't agree with that. Taking away all of the apostate blood mages (apostate meaing they don't belong to the Circle of Magi) and Anders blowing up the Chantry....? What have the Mages inside the Circle done to deserve such a fate?

[Xilizhra]

Do you not recall his note to him in his lair?

 

Stating how amazed he was with his experiments? 

 

He was supporting an insane apostate with research materials and when he died, he covered up his involvement.

 

His reasons for this are debatable, the actions themselves aren't.

 

My point is; That circle was corrupt to its upper most echelons.

 

Needed to burn a long time before it did.

Those were old letters. They weren't at all current. They had nothing to do with Quentin's current project; Orsino cut ties with Quentin after the Harvester thing, and that was before Quentin's wife died.

[Steelcan]

Indeed. So once that's done and those abominations have been beaten, you're probably safe.

 

An yet there is the scene with the girl and her 'kitty'.  If allowed to posses her, her father doesn't notice iirc

[Steelcan]

I'm not saying his actions were acceptable or that I support them, I'm saying I understand why he did it.

I still don't think every Mage deserved to die beecause of this, hundreds of deaths for being amazed at discovery? Hundreds of innocents slaughtered for the actions of a Mage that didn't even belong to the Circle? Naaa. I just can't agree with that. Taking away all of the apostate blood mages (apostate meaing they don't belong to the Circle of Magi) and Anders blowing up the Chantry....? What have the Mages inside the Circle done to deserve such a fate?

 

Where do you think all of the apostates are coming from?

[Xilizhra]

An yet there is the scene with the girl and her 'kitty'.  If allowed to posses her, her father doesn't notice iirc

Locking a demon in a basement for years and letting it acclimatize to the physical world, probably having repeated contact with other humans, would probably lead to a demon savvier about concealment, to be sure. However, even then, all you have to do is knee them in the stomach, and they go automatically berserk.

[Master Warder Z_]

Oh, she would have. Then nailed the rest of the Circle to the wall for blood magic connections.

 

 

 

The idol hardly changed her behavior at all.

 

 

 

Which didn't happen. Orsino specifically says that he ended his collaboration with Quentin long ago and that he'd turned too evil. I don't think Orsino even actively concealed Quentin, he just didn't tell Meredith about him.

 

 

 

Indeed. So once that's done and those abominations have been beaten, you're probably safe.

 

Hardly unfounded given how Rampant is eh?

 

It doesn't matter rather then doing his circle given duty as grand enchanter he aided a madman in the construction of research that should have stayed dead in a thaig that is lost to living memory. He forsake his duties, his position and his circle when he did that and you expect me to care about his reasoning for not turning him in? Even when he knew he was murdering people?

 

And the Idol corrupted her reasoning capabilities immensely; From all indicators she was quite sane before hand. Ruthless in her pursuit of the truth and corruption, but fair enough. Surprised you don't like her Xil, She's like the Antithesis of a Tveinter Magister, Except saner

[Steelcan]

Locking a demon in a basement for years and letting it acclimatize to the physical world, probably having repeated contact with other humans, would probably lead to a demon savvier about concealment, to be sure. However, even then, all you have to do is knee them in the stomach, and they go automatically berserk.

 

She was locked in a basement alone, her only contact that we know of was with the girl and Wilhelm when he sealed her in there.

[Xilizhra]

Hardly unfounded given how Rampant is eh?

 

It doesn't matter rather then doing his circle given duty as grand enchanter he aided a madman in the construction of research that should have stayed dead in a thaig that is lost to living memory. He forsake his duties, his position and his circle when he did that and you expect me to care about his reasoning for not turning him in? Even when he knew he was murdering people?

 

And the Idol corrupted her reasoning capabilities immensely; From all indicators she was quite sane before hand. Ruthless in her pursuit of the truth and corruption, but fair enough. Surprised you don't like her Xil, She's like the Antithesis of a Tveinter Magister, Except saner

I actually don't think catching apostates is the First Enchanter's duty. That's, well, the templars' duty.

 

The idol only seemed to have an effect at the very end, during the final boss battle. And she had it in Act 2 as well, she just hadn't forged it into a sword yet.

[Divine Justinia V]

Where do you think all of the apostates are coming from?

 

They no long represent The Circle of Magi. They then became the Templars responsibilty, which clearly, they failed to capture them. You can't say, for sure, that every single apostate was from the Kirwall Circle of Magi. Anders wasn't. Merrill wasn't. Hawke wasn't. What proof do you have that they all came from there?

[Steelcan]

They no long represent The Circle of Magi. They then became the Templars responsibilty, which clearly, they failed to capture them. You can't say, for sure, that every single apostate was from the Kirwall Circle of Magi. Anders wasn't. Merrill wasn't. Hawke wasn't. What proof do you have that they all came from there?

 

Because Merrill being there was a coincidence, Hawke went there because of family, and he's also the PC so rules don't apply to him.  Anders is your best example, and he talks about how the mage underground is smuggling mages out of the Circle

[Xilizhra]

She was locked in a basement alone, her only contact that we know of was with the girl and Wilhelm when he sealed her in there.

More contact than the vast majority of demons get pre-possession, and I'm fairly sure Wilhelm returned to the room from time to time. In any case, you can still just hit them.

 

 

Because Merrill being there was a coincidence, Hawke went there because of family, and he's also the PC so rules don't apply to him.  Anders is your best example, and he talks about how the mage underground is smuggling mages out of the Circle

The Resolutionists were also smuggling blood mages into Kirkwall, remember.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Where do you think all of the apostates are coming from?

Spawners placed on the map at various points that activate when the party nears them.

[Master Warder Z_]

I actually don't think catching apostates is the First Enchanter's duty. That's, well, the templars' duty.

 

The idol only seemed to have an effect at the very end, during the final boss battle. And she had it in Act 2 as well, she just hadn't forged it into a sword yet.

 

So you want to hide behind Fallacies now? He is an agent of the circle, The Circle exists because Aspotates are a danger, rogue mages bring destruction, even when Orsino saw what Quentin was plotting, Saw the body count mounting he did nothing. Corruption, Inaction, Apathy. And he shouldn't be given a reprieve for his failure when he could have ended it with a single sentence.

 

Only when The Dwarf returned to Kirkwall; The Murders were already beginning in act one.

[Steelcan]

More contact than the vast majority of demons get pre-possession, and I'm fairly sure Wilhelm returned to the room from time to time. In any case, you can still just hit them.

 

 

The Resolutionists were also smuggling blood mages into Kirkwall, remember.

 

Yes because a child an a batty old mage are the best exapples to follow on how not to be deteced, how about letting the demon possess Connor, he isn't detected,and its only experience with people is enslaving them.

 

I never accused them of being intelligent, bringing blood mages into a place swarming with templars is begging for a crackdown.

[Master Warder Z_]

Spawners placed on the map at various points that activate when the party nears them.

 

 

Actually that makes sense.

[Divine Justinia V]

Because Merrill being there was a coincidence, Hawke went there because of family, and he's also the PC so rules don't apply to him.  Anders is your best example, and he talks about how the mage underground is smuggling mages out of the Circle

No, no no, it's pretty black and white, the reasoning or "coincidence" doesn't matter, fact is fact. Also, mages from the Circle weren't the only blood/mages being smuggled into the city... so I still don't see any evidence that every single apostate was from the KCoM.

What was it you guys said?

Oh!

Some apostates were from the KCoM, so they all must be, or something like that

[Xilizhra]

So you want to hide behind Fallacies now? He is an agent of the circle, The Circle exists because Aspotates are a danger, rogue mages bring destruction, even when Orsino saw what Quentin was plotting, Saw the body count mounting he did nothing. Corruption, Inaction, Apathy. And he shouldn't be given a reprieve for his failure when he could have ended it with a single sentence.

 

Only when The Dwarf returned to Kirkwall; The Murders were already beginning in act one.

The body count would have been higher if he'd spoken. It was unpleasant, to be sure, but there wasn't really anything he could have done without making matters worse... especially since no one knew where Quentin's lair was, so it's not all that likely that they could even catch him.

 

There's also no indication of when or how Orsino even found out that it was Quentin.

 

Yes because a child an a batty old mage are the best exapples to follow on how not to be deteced, how about letting the demon possess Connor, he isn't detected,and its only experience with people is enslaving them.

All you need is enough self-restraint to get out of the basement without attacking, and it wouldn't be hard to learn a few short phrases to temporarily allay suspicion until you're in the outside world. As for Connor... er, what do you mean? Connor was extremely blatantly possessed; mass murder and necromancy aside, he also suddenly got a deep and echoing voice.

[Steelcan]

No, no no, it's pretty black and white, the reasoning or "coincidence" doesn't matter, fact is fact. Also, mages from the Circle weren't the only blood/mages being smuggled into the city... so I still don't see any evidence that every single apostate was from the KCoM.

What was it you guys said?

Oh!

Some apostates were from the KCoM, so they all must be, or something like that

 

Any mage dumb enough to willingly go into Kirkwall should be killed for the sake of the gene pool after winning a Darwin Award

[Divine Justinia V]

Any mage dumb enough to willingly go into Kirkwall should be killed for the sake of the gene pool after winning a Darwin Award

The Starkhaven Circle is much worse than Kirkwall, supposedly, so, actually, no.

[Steelcan]

The Starkhaven Circle is much worse than Kirkwall, supposedly, so, actually, no.

 

The Starkhaven one doesn't exist anymore since it was burned down, and any mage coming in after Act 1 certainly doesn't have much ground to stand on, there are other cities to go to

[Master Warder Z_]

The body count would have been higher if he'd spoken. It was unpleasant, to be sure, but there wasn't really anything he could have done without making matters worse... especially since no one knew where Quentin's lair was, so it's not all that likely that they could even catch him.

 

There's also no indication of when or how Orsino even found out that it was Quentin.

 

 

 

All you need is enough self-restraint to get out of the basement without attacking, and it wouldn't be hard to learn a few short phrases to temporarily allay suspicion until you're in the outside world. As for Connor... er, what do you mean? Connor was extremely blatantly possessed; mass murder and necromancy aside, he also suddenly got a deep and echoing voice.

 

Also no indicator when he cut his ties to him :/

 

But that still doesn't mean he couldn't have pointed the Templars in his direction; He allowed that madman his reprieve, led the templars on a goose chase regarding the matter when he knew whom it was. You can defend, justify and twist all you like but ultimately? Orsino allowed Quentin his freedom to Murder, rather then doing his duty to his circle he stared at his feet. All for some pathetic notion of denying Meredith ammunition against the Circle, The only evidence that likely would be uncovered would point back to only one mage of the circle.

 

HIM; He was protecting himself, not the circle.

[Xilizhra]

Also no indicator when he cut his ties to him :/

Actually, there is: it was after the Harvester project.

 

But that still doesn't mean he couldn't have pointed the Templars in his direction; He allowed that madman his reprieve, led the templars on a goose chase regarding the matter when he knew whom it was. You can defend, justify and twist all you like but ultimately? Orsino allowed Quentin his freedom to Murder, rather then doing his duty to his circle he stared at his feet. All for some pathetic notion of denying Meredith ammunition against the Circle, The only evidence that likely would be uncovered would point back to only one mage of the circle.

He didn't lead the templars anywhere; the templars were completely ignoring the murders. And given how crazy Meredith is, collective punishment of the Circle would be practically a certainty.

[Divine Justinia V]

The Starkhaven one doesn't exist anymore since it was burned down, and any mage coming in after Act 1 certainly doesn't have much ground to stand on, there are other cities to go to

Well, considering they're both in the Free Marches and they're pretty close together - it actually makes sense?

[Steelcan]

Well, considering they're both in the Free Marches and they're pretty close together - it actually makes sense?

 

There are other cities in the free marches, ones that aren't crawling with templars led by a paranoid lunatic

[Divine Justinia V]

There are other cities in the free marches, ones that aren't crawling with templars led by a paranoid lunatic

Things didn't get to that caliber of bad until later on in Act II & predominately Act III. So, for the first 6 years, at least, it still makes sense.