8640 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

I am not saying that mages are lesser beings or anything, but they cannot be treated the same as Joe Normal, its simply too dangerous, to mundanes and to the mages themselves.  They need to be educated about the dangers of their powers and be equipped to handle issues that arise from being a mage.

 

This is true, but we still need to bear in mind that they are people who have emotions. 

 

And they go through quite a lot of emotional trauma already. They are torn from their families when they are discovered to have magic....or simply outright abandoned by their parents who want nothing to do with magic. They are kept under lock and key their whole lives, threatened with death at a moments notice. And this is during the development years where emotional connections are important. The details of their final exam, the Harrowing, are kept secret from them, and all they know is that they can be forced into tranquility if they're weak or considered dangerous, and if they fail the Harrowing then they are never seen again. 

 

And most mages aren't allowed to marry, and any children they have are taken away from them as property of the Chantry immediately after birth, which is what happened to Wynne with Rhys. 

 

There is a lot of emotional trauma the mages go through, and ignoring these things, when any one of them has been enough to drive people to insanity in real life, cannot be discounted. 

 

Mages need emotional stability. Kind of like what that instructor was telling the apprentice who was practicing fire in the Mage Origin. "The flame reacts to your emotions." Because the mage was panicking, he lost control and set himself on fire. 

 

They need a solid emotional foundation as a way to help them control their powers. 

[Divine Justinia V]

And that's why the Circle is needed.  I see no reason not to expand a mage's freedoms after they complete their Harrowing.

But why? They deserve at least that if you're going to confine them to, basically, a prison for the rest of their lives? They're educated enough to go outside, or have a field trip for the love of god

[wcholcombe]

And that's why the Circle is needed. I see no reason not to expand a mage's freedoms after they complete their Harrowing.

I would be in agreement with that. I still think they need to come to the tower twice a year or so, but I would have no issue with once a mage has passed that point his freedoms could be expanded. I think to a degree from what we have seen and read, mages used to enjoy a great deal more freedom.

[dragonflight288]

And that's why the Circle is needed.  I see no reason not to expand a mage's freedoms after they complete their Harrowing.

 

I've advocated for this is in the past. I've also advocated supervised vacations or something to the marketplaces to buy souvenirs or something, or family visits.

[Grieving Natashina]

I'll say this again: We might have to come up with a new system entirely.  In most societies, when such a change in structure takes place, the option to go back to the "old ways" (whatever those might be) isn't going to be there.  It's the case with fictional societies as well and I doubt Thedas is any different.

 

No matter the outcome of Inquisition, the old system isn't going to be a viable option.  Period.  Too much has changed.  The fear that kept the mages in check?  They've decided they'd rather run than live in fear.  The Templars that hated the internal corruption?  They'd rather help the mages than help someone like Meredith.  The mages that miss their Circles, their home?  Now they have to band together just to survive.  The Templars that believed in Meredith?  Now they are also considered dangerous enemies.

 

No matter how one slices it, it sucks to be in either group in Thedas at this point in time.

 

You two groups need to get it together.  The mundanes here (hiya!) need your help.  A powerful rogue or warrior can accomplish a lot.  However, without the power of the mages as well as the power of the Templars' counter-magics, Thedas doesn't stand a chance.  

 

Rather than continue to complain/debate about a now-outdated practice, is there any chance in hell that we can come up with something new? 

[Steelcan]

But why? They deserve at least that if you're going to confine them to, basically, a prison for the rest of their lives? They're educated enough to go outside, or have a field trip for the love of god

 

reread what I said

[Divine Justinia V]

reread what I said

lol damn. sorry! Well, I think we may have come to an agreement after all this time!

[Xilizhra]

I'll say this again: We might have to come up with a new system entirely.  In most societies, when such a change in structure takes place, the option to go back to the "old ways" (whatever those might be) isn't going to be there.  It's the case with fictional societies as well and I doubt Thedas is any different.

 

No matter the outcome of Inquisition, the old system isn't going to be a viable option.  Period.  Too much has changed.  The fear that kept the mages in check?  They've decided they'd rather run than live in fear.  The Templars that hated the internal corruption?  They'd rather help the mages than help someone like Meredith.  The mages that miss their Circles, their home?  Now they have to band together just to survive.  The Templars that believed in Meredith?  Now they are also considered dangerous enemies.

 

No matter how one slices it, it sucks to be in either group in Thedas at this point in time.

 

You two groups need to get it together.  The mundanes here (hiya!) need your help.  A powerful rogue or warrior can accomplish a lot.  However, without the power of the mages as well as the power of the Templars' counter-magics, Thedas doesn't stand a chance.  

 

Rather than continue to complain/debate about a now-outdated practice, is there any chance in hell that we can come up with something new? 

With a caveat: the members of the previous Order will not, under any circumstances, be part of the new system unless it's expressly proven that they can be trusted.

[Grieving Natashina]

Certain members of the previous Order.  From what I've seen, not all Templars are twisted perverted zealots, and I'm not going to treat them as such.

 

That's as unfair as treating all mages as potential walking bombs.  

 

Edit: I need to add that the Order is already sorting itself out.  Those more fanatical Templars probably have mostly joined the "Red Templar" splinter group by now.

[wcholcombe]

With a caveat: the members of the previous Order will not, under any circumstances, be part of the new system unless it's expressly proven that they can be trusted.

Does that go for mages as well? Wait a minute, I am talking to Q, of course it doesn't.

[Steelcan]

That would depend, if you are speaking specifically about enslavement of Africans, 300 or so years, serfdom was a little longer, not certain how long the Jews were slaves of Egypt, but again we have mages talking about how it worked and we have examples of mages being given great freedom and power.

 

There is little archaeological evidence to suggest Jewish enslavement in Egypt on any grand scale

[KainD]

That's as unfair as treating all mages as potential walking bombs.  

 

 

 

Lol, they are. 

[Rainbow Wyvern]

With a caveat: the members of the previous Order will not, under any circumstances, be part of the new system unless it's expressly proven that they can be trusted.

It's thinking like this that prevents any hope of a compromise between mages and Templars.

[Steelcan]

It's thinking like this that prevents any hope of a compromise between mages and Templars.

 

Xil isn't interested in compromise

[dragonflight288]

With a caveat: the members of the previous Order will not, under any circumstances, be part of the new system unless it's expressly proven that they can be trusted.

 

Just out of curiosity, as one person who supports mages over templars to another....

 

How can the good templars actually prove they can be trusted. What would you accept as proof?

[Grieving Natashina]

Lol, they are. 

And every Templar is a drug addict on the verge of doing anything to get their next fix.

 

Sorry, but I still believe that throwing a blanket statement across either Mages or Templars is a very narrowminded view to take.

 

I'm not necessarily pro-Mage or pro-Templar.  

 

I'm pro-Work together you morons so Thedas isn't destroyed.

[KainD]

 

How can the good templars actually prove they can be trusted. What would you accept as proof?

 

Them not being templars. Abandoning the order. 

[KainD]

 

Sorry, but I still believe that throwing a blanket statement across either Mages or Templars is a very narrowminded view to take.

 

It's just true. I love mages, but a walking bomb is one thing they are. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Them not being templars. Abandoning the order. 

Yes.  I think the more reasonable Templars will stay with the Order and the rest are going to join splinter groups.

 

 

It's just true. I love mages, but a walking bomb is one thing they are. 

We'll agree to disagree then.

[Steelcan]

I'm willing to bet that we will start off the game with the templars winning the war, I don't anticipate a Skyrim Civil War-esque situation where both sides are evenly matched until the Dragonborn intervenes

[Iron Fist]

The Circle of Magi and the Templar Order are necessary institutions. However, I think they should operate independently of the Chantry.

 

I propose an arrangement with the Grey Wardens, who could offer aid in policing AND protecting mages.

[KainD]

 

 

I'm pro-Work together you morons so Thedas isn't destroyed.

 

I personally think this is as naive of a stance as world piece. 

[Steelcan]

The Circle of Magi and the Templar Order are necessary institutions. However, I think they should operate independently of the Chantry.

 

I propose an arrangement with the Grey Wardens, who could offer aid in policing AND protecting mages.

 

  You sure about that?  The Wardens are hardly up for that sort of thing

[Xilizhra]

Certain members of the previous Order.  From what I've seen, not all Templars are twisted perverted zealots, and I'm not going to treat them as such.

 

That's as unfair as treating all mages as potential walking bombs.  

 

Edit: I need to add that the Order is already sorting itself out.  Those more fanatical Templars probably have mostly joined the "Red Templar" splinter group by now.

It's true. Plenty of templars will have proven themselves by leaving the Order and sticking with the Chantry, not prosecuting war against the mages.

 

Those who remained with Lambert's cause? All of them are enemies, and will be treated as such until surrender.

 

 

Does that go for mages as well? Wait a minute, I am talking to Q, of course it doesn't.

No, because the mage side of the war is wholly defensive.

 

 

It's thinking like this that prevents any hope of a compromise between mages and Templars.

There is no compromise, at least not with the Order as it currently stands.

 

 

 

Just out of curiosity, as one person who supports mages over templars to another....

 

How can the good templars actually prove they can be trusted. What would you accept as proof?

Well, having not left the Chantry would be a good start. After that... well, we accept defections at any time.

[Divine Justinia V]

The Circle of Magi and the Templar Order are necessary institutions. However, I think they should operate independently of the Chantry.

 

I propose an arrangement with the Grey Wardens, who could offer aid in policing AND protecting mages.

While I would rather TCoM being some kind of school-like place where you'd go in for 8 or so hours and then go home until a certain age, I this idea (because let's be honest my preference would probably never happen). I think the Grey Wardens would be perfect for something like that, AND they could recruit the more promising apprentices/enchanters.