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Uneven Presentation of the mage-templar conflict


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#251
Master Warder Z_

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Wothen wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Read Asunder. To my mind, it's far more balanced in its presentation of mages and templars, both the good and the bad, than, say, DA2.

What?
No!

Asunder story can be summed up in

Mages are opressed by templars
Mages goes on a quest while being opressed AND death threatened by templars
Mages try to break free and big bad templars kill some of them, capture the rest AGAINST THE CHANTRY WILL
Mages rebel , templars says F.U to the chantry and goes after the mages to kill them all

Yeah
very balanced representation
Theres like 1 reasonable templar in the whole story

However if you want to put the Chantry (Not the templars) in a good light thats the book









Lambert was a very reasonable man for his position.

He gave far more chances then a certain Knight Commander gave in DA 2.

._. Then again he's a seeker, not a templar.

#252
TheKomandorShepard

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LobselVith8 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's the only argument Meredith continually makes for why the Right was invoked, and it's even used when she tries to persuade Hawke to side with her. The Circle is being condemned to death for the actions of a single man.


The circle would be burned without anders only if elthina wasn't stupid bi*** maybe meredith used that as reason but circle was corrupted so RoA was in place despite meredith reason so we have hero who slain dangerous insane orcs for pancakes but still slain dangerous orcs and thats matter not pancakes... 


I'm not certain how you can condemn the entire Circle when the Champion only encounters the criminal element outside the Gallows, and never meets with the hundreds of men, women, and children who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. It's like condemning all the dwarves of Kirkwall because of the plethora of carta members you fight against.


Circle was corrupted it was proved many times by many groups of circle mages that were abomnations or blood mages even leader was corrupted and was dealing with necromancy and very nasty kind of blood magic and RoA showed that was true abomnation on abomnation meredith was right even if she was insane... It doest matter
1)dwarves can't burn city... (they can't even cause half damage that mage can do)
2)dwarves can't be turned into insane powerful monster

IF they could choping dwarves would be in place

#253
leaguer of one

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Master Warder Z wrote...

Wothen wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Read Asunder. To my mind, it's far more balanced in its presentation of mages and templars, both the good and the bad, than, say, DA2.

What?
No!

Asunder story can be summed up in

Mages are opressed by templars
Mages goes on a quest while being opressed AND death threatened by templars
Mages try to break free and big bad templars kill some of them, capture the rest AGAINST THE CHANTRY WILL
Mages rebel , templars says F.U to the chantry and goes after the mages to kill them all

Yeah
very balanced representation
Theres like 1 reasonable templar in the whole story

However if you want to put the Chantry (Not the templars) in a good light thats the book









Lambert was a very reasonable man for his position.

He gave far more chances then a certain Knight Commander gave in DA 2.

._. Then again he's a seeker, not a templar.

....:mellow: What?
NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.

#254
leaguer of one

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's the only argument Meredith continually makes for why the Right was invoked, and it's even used when she tries to persuade Hawke to side with her. The Circle is being condemned to death for the actions of a single man.


The circle would be burned without anders only if elthina wasn't stupid bi*** maybe meredith used that as reason but circle was corrupted so RoA was in place despite meredith reason so we have hero who slain dangerous insane orcs for pancakes but still slain dangerous orcs and thats matter not pancakes... 


I'm not certain how you can condemn the entire Circle when the Champion only encounters the criminal element outside the Gallows, and never meets with the hundreds of men, women, and children who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. It's like condemning all the dwarves of Kirkwall because of the plethora of carta members you fight against.


Circle was corrupted it was proved many times by many groups of circle mages that were abomnations or blood mages even leader was corrupted and was dealing with necromancy and very nasty kind of blood magic and RoA showed that was true abomnation on abomnation meredith was right even if she was insane... It doest matter
1)dwarves can't burn city... (they can't even cause half damage that mage can do)
2)dwarves can't be turned into insane powerful monster

IF they could choping dwarves would be in place

1. Dwarve can make bombs.
2.Dwarve invented flesh golem that does as much damage as an Abomination. Look up harvesters.

Also, It was not the entire circle that was corrupt nor was it the majority. Orseno did not even use blood magic till he was forced into a corner in the end.

#255
TheKomandorShepard

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leaguer of one wrote...


NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.


Sorry but backstabbing women who is insane enough free walking bombs and start war to make life of this bombs a little better risking end of the world is rather reasonable...

simple he was effective unlike divine and he stopped war divine destroyed that...

leaguer of one wrote...


1. Dwarve can make bombs.
2.Dwarve invented flesh golem that does as much damage as an Abomination. Look up harvesters.

Also,
It was not the entire circle that was corrupt nor was it the majority.
Orseno did not even use blood magic till he was forced into a corner in
the end.


1.And because i didn't saw any insane dawrf attacking towns with desire of destruction of the world and i saw many mages/abomantions who tried to do that unsuccessfully thanks to protagonists...
2.Not rly they had help from tevinter empire or at least magister without that magister there is no harvester so "mage did it" orsino proved it by turning into harvester... 

Yes yes he turned into harvester without practicing blood magic... his lie nothing more he knew what quentin was doing he was corrupted and supported necromancy and psychopath... :whistle:

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 17 février 2014 - 01:27 .


#256
leaguer of one

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.


Sorry but backstabbing women who is insane enough free walking bombs and start war to make life of this bombs a little better risking end of the world is rather reasonable...

simple he was effective unlike divine and he stopped war divine destroyed that...

1.She was not rying to free the mages.
2.They would not be an issue if he just stood down like he was ordered to.
3. Mages are not waking bombs.

#257
KaiserShep

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...
Circle was corrupted it was proved many times by many groups of circle mages that were abomnations or blood mages even leader was corrupted and was dealing with necromancy and very nasty kind of blood magic and RoA showed that was true abomnation on abomnation meredith was right even if she was insane... It doest matter
1)dwarves can't burn city... (they can't even cause half damage that mage can do)
2)dwarves can't be turned into insane powerful monster

IF they could choping dwarves would be in place


The great irony is that the only ones who really set the city on fire were the qunari, and it was a templar who turned statues into ferocious monsters, using a thing created by ancient dwarves. And really, what difference does it make? I've never seen any example of a single mage setting an entire city on fire, but anyone with the right materials can do exactly that. I mean, for crying out loud, a mundane elf fanatic poisoned an entire district with gas.

Seems to me that crazy beats magic every time.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 février 2014 - 01:30 .


#258
TheKomandorShepard

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leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.


Sorry but backstabbing women who is insane enough free walking bombs and start war to make life of this bombs a little better risking end of the world is rather reasonable...

simple he was effective unlike divine and he stopped war divine destroyed that...

1.She was not rying to free the mages.
2.They would not be an issue if he just stood down like he was ordered to.
3. Mages are not waking bombs.

1.No so what she did when lambert caputured mages and send leliana to help them get out?
2.Not rly with fiona and adrian (and many other mages) it wouldn't...
3.Yep they are even one of devs called them that...


KaiserShep wrote...

The great irony is that the only ones
who really set the city on fire were the qunari, and it was a templar
who turned statues into ferocious monsters. And really, what difference
does it make? I've never seen any example of a single mage setting an
entire city on fire, but anyone with the right materials can do exactly
that. I mean, for crying out loud, a mundane elf fanatic poisoned an
entire district with gas.

Seems to me that crazy beats magic every time.


Not rly meredith was trying protect city even if insane mages were insane bomb throwers best example anders before meredith was harmful to no one outside mages (and dumb*** who were helping them) as well templars about qunari ture but that another matter and qunari wanted just order not destruction unlike mages... 

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 17 février 2014 - 01:31 .


#259
leaguer of one

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...


NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.


Sorry but backstabbing women who is insane enough free walking bombs and start war to make life of this bombs a little better risking end of the world is rather reasonable...

simple he was effective unlike divine and he stopped war divine destroyed that...

1.She was not rying to free the mages.
2.They would not be an issue if he just stood down like he was ordered to.
3. Mages are not waking bombs.

1.No so what she did when lambert caputured mages and send leliana to help them get out?
2.Not rly with fiona and adrian (and many other mages) it wouldn't...
3.Yep they are even one of devs called them that...

1.Because Lambert did something he was not soppose to do and would not stand down. If he did not do what he did in the first place their would be no issue.
2.Fiona was not planning a mage uprise. And the templar did what Adrian wanted to do, cause conflict to force the mages to uprise.  You want to say Lanbert was made into a puppet by a Mage?
3. Not one dev aclled them that. Very few mages turn into abominations

#260
leaguer of one

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Not rly meredith was trying protect city even if insane mages were insane bomb throwers best example anders before meredith was harmful to no one outside mages (and dumb*** who were helping them) as well templars about qunari ture but that another matter and qunari wanted just order not destruction unlike mages... 

How is she doing that by turning on the champion and turning statues into monsters?

#261
KaiserShep

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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Not rly meredith was trying protect city even if insane mages were insane bomb throwers best example anders before meredith was harmful to no one outside mages (and dumb*** who were helping them) as well templars about qunari ture but that another matter and qunari wanted just order not destruction unlike mages... 


Even if you help Meredith, she turns on you. Protecting the city from the person that was trying to help her? No matter what you do, Meredith turns on Kirkwall and is a tyrant that tried to usurp the office of the Viscount. That's not exactly helping the city, regardless of her intentions.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 février 2014 - 01:39 .


#262
Master Warder Z_

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leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Wothen wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Read Asunder. To my mind, it's far more balanced in its presentation of mages and templars, both the good and the bad, than, say, DA2.

What?
No!

Asunder story can be summed up in

Mages are opressed by templars
Mages goes on a quest while being opressed AND death threatened by templars
Mages try to break free and big bad templars kill some of them, capture the rest AGAINST THE CHANTRY WILL
Mages rebel , templars says F.U to the chantry and goes after the mages to kill them all

Yeah
very balanced representation
Theres like 1 reasonable templar in the whole story

However if you want to put the Chantry (Not the templars) in a good light thats the book









Lambert was a very reasonable man for his position.

He gave far more chances then a certain Knight Commander gave in DA 2.

._. Then again he's a seeker, not a templar.

....:mellow: What?
NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.


Making sure her unauthorized expriment didn't blow in her face? Oh wait it did and dozens if not a hundred or more civilians paid for that mistake with their lives, Trying to recapture escaping mages her agents let loose in the first place? He had a duty to the realm and chantry and he took his duty to the realm more seriously at the moment considering the Divine had effectively killed his men, let loose his charges and beget the entire situation by luring him away in the first place.

So what exactly did he do behind the unworthy divine's back? 

And the Templars, Seekers and Chantry had a fairly cordial and relaxed relation considering Lambert had the authority to end it with a simple letter, It was obvious that the Templars served by choice, not by the Divine's will no matter how hard they tried to ingrain that bit into them.

#263
SgtSteel91

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Actually Master Warden Z and TheKommanderShepard, do you think there is equal presentation of the Mage-Templar conflict? Even though you both are sympathetic to the Templar's cause, do you think the Dragon Age media thus far has shown at least an understanding of the Mage's position and can see where those who would side with them come from?

Modifié par SgtSteel91, 17 février 2014 - 01:56 .


#264
Hellion Rex

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Master Warder Z wrote...
Making sure her unauthorized expriment didn't blow in her face? Oh wait it did and dozens if not a hundred or more civilians paid for that mistake with their lives,


A. How is what she did unauthorized? She is the Divine. She can do whatever the heck she wants, considering she is the boss of both the Seekers and Templars.

B. What civilians? Only mages and templars were affected by what happened in White Spire.

#265
leaguer of one

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Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Wothen wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

Read Asunder. To my mind, it's far more balanced in its presentation of mages and templars, both the good and the bad, than, say, DA2.

What?
No!

Asunder story can be summed up in

Mages are opressed by templars
Mages goes on a quest while being opressed AND death threatened by templars
Mages try to break free and big bad templars kill some of them, capture the rest AGAINST THE CHANTRY WILL
Mages rebel , templars says F.U to the chantry and goes after the mages to kill them all

Yeah
very balanced representation
Theres like 1 reasonable templar in the whole story

However if you want to put the Chantry (Not the templars) in a good light thats the book









Lambert was a very reasonable man for his position.

He gave far more chances then a certain Knight Commander gave in DA 2.

._. Then again he's a seeker, not a templar.

....:mellow: What?
NO HE WAS NOT REASONABLE. He was doing a bunch of thing behind the divines back...Ageinst the Divines orders. 
Sorry but he was not reasonable.


Making sure her unauthorized expriment didn't blow in her face? Oh wait it did and dozens if not a hundred or more civilians paid for that mistake with their lives, Trying to recapture escaping mages her agents let loose in the first place? He had a duty to the realm and chantry and he took his duty to the realm more seriously at the moment considering the Divine had effectively killed his men, let loose his charges and beget the entire situation by luring him away in the first place.

So what exactly did he do behind the unworthy divine's back? 

And the Templars, Seekers and Chantry had a fairly cordial and relaxed relation considering Lambert had the authority to end it with a simple letter, It was obvious that the Templars served by choice, not by the Divine's will no matter how hard they tried to ingrain that bit into them.



1. Lanbert did not even know there was an experiment to prevent or the fact it fail. He was trying to cover it up so that the tranquility of mages can be used as a weapon ageinst mages.   it was just about control.
2.None of those mages would escaped his just did what he was ordered to do.
3.You need to look uo what Seeker. They take direct orders form the divine. And what he did caused more chaos for the realm.
4.She oked the deaths of insabodinate rebeal templar who went ageinst her orders and duty to also protect mages.

Do you not get that if he did not seek conflict with the mages there would be no conflict with the mages and he was order not to do so. And trying to cover up the finding of reversing tranquility is not going behind her back?

Sorry but he was not reasonable.

#266
leaguer of one

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eluvianix wrote...



B. What civilians? Only mages and templars were affected by what happened in White Spire.

He's talking about the cure for tranquility.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 17 février 2014 - 01:49 .


#267
Hellion Rex

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leaguer of one wrote...

eluvianix wrote...



B. What civilians? Only mages and templars were affected by what happened in White Spire.

He's talking about the cure for tranquility.


Ah, mea culpa. Thanks.

#268
TheKomandorShepard

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leaguer of one wrote...

1.Because Lambert did something he was not soppose to do and would not stand down. If he did not do what he did in the first place their would be no issue.
2.Fiona was not planning a mage uprise. And the templar did what Adrian wanted to do, cause conflict to force the mages to uprise.  You want to say Lanbert was made into a puppet by a Mage?
3. Not one dev aclled them that. Very few mages turn into abominations


1. It doesn't matter she is still let walking bombs roam free...
2.Yes yes she just watned say screw you to templars and be free so yes she watned cut of from system and that what protected world from them... Lambert controled everything he stoped mages and won this war before it even started...
3.Yep one of devs called them walking bombs on this forum...

Very few mages turn into abominations


Image IPB

leaguer of one wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Not
rly meredith was trying protect city even if insane mages were insane
bomb throwers best example anders before meredith was harmful to no one
outside mages (and dumb*** who were helping them) as well templars about
qunari ture but that another matter and qunari wanted just order not
destruction unlike mages... 

How is she doing that by turning on the champion and turning statues into monsters?


She was doing that before she wen completly nuts and  she didn't hurted anyone with this statues so nope she didn't set city on fire she just attacked hawke...

KaiserShep wrote...

Even if you help Meredith, she turns
on you. Protecting the city from the person that was trying to help her?
No matter what you do, Meredith turns on Kirkwall and is a tyrant that
tried to usurp the office of the Viscount. That's not exactly helping
the city, regardless of her intentions.


read above... not every hawke was helping her but as i said in the end she wen completly nuts but before she was protecting city like it or not but only her was standing beetwen kirkwall and insane mages that would burn it... so her intentions doesn't matter she was doing that until she went completly insane...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 17 février 2014 - 02:08 .


#269
leaguer of one

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[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

[quote]leaguer of one wrote...

1.Because Lambert did something he was not soppose to do and would not stand down. If he did not do what he did in the first place their would be no issue.
2.Fiona was not planning a mage uprise. And the templar did what Adrian wanted to do, cause conflict to force the mages to uprise.  You want to say Lanbert was made into a puppet by a Mage?
3. Not one dev aclled them that. Very few mages turn into abominations

[/quote]

1. It doesn't matter she is still let walking bombs roam free...
2.Yes yes she just watned say screw you to templars and be free so yes she watned cut of from system and that what protected world from them... Lambert controled everything he stoped mages and won this war before it even started...
3.Yep one of devs called them walking bombs on this forum...
[quotes]
Very few mages turn into abominations
[/quotes]



[quote]leaguer of one wrote...

[quote]TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Not
rly meredith was trying protect city even if insane mages were insane
bomb throwers best example anders before meredith was harmful to no one
outside mages (and dumb*** who were helping them) as well templars about
qunari ture but that another matter and qunari wanted just order not
destruction unlike mages... 

[/quote]How is she doing that by turning on the champion and turning statues into monsters?
[/quote]

She was doing that before she wen completly nuts and  she didn't hurted anyone with this statues so nope she didn't set city on fire she just attacked hawke...

[quote]KaiserShep wrote...

Even if you help Meredith, she turns
on you. Protecting the city from the person that was trying to help her?
No matter what you do, Meredith turns on Kirkwall and is a tyrant that
tried to usurp the office of the Viscount. That's not exactly helping
the city, regardless of her intentions.
[/quote]

read above... not every hawke was helping her but as i said in the end she wen completly nuts but before she was protecting city like it or not but only her was standing beetwen kirkwall and insane mages that would burn it... so her intentions doesn't matter she was doing that until she went completly insane...
[/quote]1.Doesn't matter. Would not of been an issue if Lambart stood down.
2.No he did not. He played right to Adrian's hand.
3.Link to quote please.
4. Link to quote stating most mages turn into abominations.

"She was doing that before she wen completly nuts and  she didn't hurted anyone with this statues so nope she didn't set city on fire she just attacked hawke... "

Did yo even play the same game?

#270
TheKomandorShepard

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SgtSteel91 wrote...

Actually MWZ and TKS, do you think there is equal presentation of the Mage-Templar conflict? Even though you both are sympathetic to the Templar's cause, do you think the Dragon Age media thus far has shown at least an understanding of the Mage's position and can see where those who would side with them come from?


Well im not exactly pro-templar more anti-mage but if you ask if bioware gave me any reason to support mages answer is no simple there is no other reason besides huge naivety mages weren't even sympathetic and thats to be honest only reason that someone would support mages...  

When templars are proven to be right that mages are walking bombs and ultimately we have conflict beetwen fanatics that protect world and unsympathetic walking bombs that are danger for everything around which was proven many times...  take your pick but i prefer fanatics that protect world...

so it is darkspawn vs grey wardens who don't have clean hands but are in grey area...

#271
Hanako Ikezawa

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eluvianix wrote...
A. How is what she did unauthorized? She is the Divine. She can do whatever the heck she wants, considering she is the boss of both the Seekers and Templars.

I was going to ask the same thing.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 17 février 2014 - 02:06 .


#272
TheKomandorShepard

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leaguer of one wrote...

1.Doesn't matter. Would not of been an issue if Lambart stood down.
2.No he did not. He played right to Adrian's hand.
3.Link to quote please.
4. Link to quote stating most mages turn into abominations.

"She was doing that before she wen completly nuts and  she didn't hurted anyone with this statues so nope she didn't set city on fire she just attacked hawke... "

Did yo even play the same game?


1.Yep it would because simple mages wanted separate from only thing that protect world from them...
2.Yep it would be like i punch you in the face then you punched me back and then i called you my puppet because you did what i predicted... or if i killed someone and then i was arested by police then i tell that i control them because they did what i predicted...
3.Don't renmber that long time ago i saw that something about my first day in forums and one of the devs compared them to walking bombs...
4.There is no such quote and i never said that it was just conclusion that i can tell basing on what we saw in games.
5.Yep i played she didn't harm anyone outside mages before her breakdown in the end when she turned on hawke...

#273
TK514

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Yes, the writers have done an abysmal job of presenting the Mage-Templar conflict in an even, objective, and unbiased fashion.  They's so pro-mage it's absurd.

DA:O
Mage:
Our main view into mages is via playing one.  They get an origin in which they are forced by the cruel templars to take a test that will result in death if they fail.  Their 'best friend' is terrified he's going to be made into a soulless automaton simply because he's weak.  At the end, you are threatened with harsh punishment, again by the cruel and uncaring Templars, simply for doing what you were told.  Only the timely intervention of the surrogate father figure saves you from the harsh and arbitrary life of the Circle.

Templar:
Our main view into the life of a Templar is the party idiot who repeatedly tells you how much he hated almost being a templar, how terrible it was to be an initiate, and how glad he is that the surrogate father figure rescued him from that life before he had to take his vows.

During the game, the main group of Templars we see performing their duty, again at the Circle, is shown as a group that fled for their lives and locked the door, heedless of survivors that might still be inside, and who refuse to help the PC and party in any way when it comes to cleansing the tower and saving people.  The Mage inside, however, leaps at the chance to save her fellow mages as deal with any abominations as they come up, in spite of being elderly and having 'almost' died shortly before.

In DA:O + Expansions we had 6 Mage party members and 0 Templars.  We had no opportunity whatsoever to explore the Templar side of the story, but plenty of time to talk to folks about life in the Circle AND life as an Apostate.

DA II:

They have said they were attempting to make the story less one-sided, but if that's the case they were incompetent about it.

Mages:

They live in a former prison.  Every time we see one in the Courtyard, they talk about how horrible life is there, or they have been abused beyond absurdity.  Of all the mages we meet, potentially two can say life there isn't so bad.  Assuming Anders doesn't kill one of them.  Most of the mages we meet outside the Circle, who invariably turn to Blood Magic, start the excuses by blaming the Templars.  It's rarely the Mages fault they're doing what they're doing, oh no, it's all because of those evil Templars.  The writers go even further to excuse the mages by giving them not one but TWO excuses for why it isn't their fault, Kirkwall made them do it.  You get the notes talking about how Kirkwall was created to be a hell pit, followed by 'proximity to Corypeus made people crazy'.  Even the Serial Killer who has nothing to do with the Circle or injustice is ultimately allowed to continue his killing spree to it's conclusion because Orsino protected him for fear of the Templars.

Templars:
Rapists.  Murderers.  Illegal Rites.  Coercion in the ranks.  An Insane Knight Commander.  We meet very few 'reasonable' Templars, and they end up being incompetent, elderly, and murdered.  The first Templar we meet in the game is so stupid he wants to go after an Apostate (or two!) while suffering a crippling wound, rather than saving his wife from the approaching Darkspawn Horde, and he is dead weight the entire time he is with the party.  One of them so distrusts the Circle, he lets his own daughter run rather than put her there.  He follows this act of brilliance up by trusting and assisting Blood Mages in an attempted rebellion and dies a patsy.  The other is treated as an object of pity to be tolerated by his fellow Templars, scorned by the Guard, and ultimately gets himself murdered.  The only party member you might consider a Templar, because he can become one after leaving the party for good', so distrusts the Circle that he never reports his own sibling or any of his sibling's companion mages.  On top of spending his entire time in the party being mocked because he's an unlikable brat.

Companions:

3 Mages, 0 Templars.  Plenty of time to get the mage point of view as both an escaped Circle Mage and as an Apostate.  No opportunity to see what life is like as a normal Templar.

So, yeah, to say the presentation has been uneven would be an understatement.  You could hardly ask for a less objective and more biased presentation of two sides of an issue than the DA writers have given us.  And I fully expect this to continue in DA:I.  IF we get an actual Templar companion, as opposed to a Seeker like Cassandra, I expect them to have left the order in protest after the events in Asunder.  I fully expect it to be another hamfisted 'poor mages just want to be free from tyrannical Templars', while the Templars are treated as moustache twirlers who will do anything, including indoctrinate themselves use Red Lyrium to kill a few more mage babies in spite of the world burning down around them.

#274
SgtSteel91

SgtSteel91
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TheKomandorShepard wrote...

Well im not exactly pro-templar more anti-mage but if you ask if bioware gave me any reason to support mages answer is no simple there is no other reason besides huge naivety mages weren't even sympathetic and thats to be honest only reason that someone would support mages...  

When templars are proven to be right that mages are walking bombs and ultimately we have conflict beetwen fanatics that protect world and unsympathetic walking bombs that are danger for everything around which was proven many times...  take your pick but i prefer fanatics that protect world...

so it is darkspawn vs grey wardens who don't have clean hands but are in grey area...



That's not good, then. IMO the writes wanted both sides to be viable or equally sympathetic for different reasons. I don't think the conficlt is supposed to be as black and white as Darkspawn and Wardens.

#275
Hanako Ikezawa

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TK514 wrote...

Yes, the writers have done an abysmal job of presenting the Mage-Templar conflict in an even, objective, and unbiased fashion.  They's so pro-mage it's absurd.

Then why was David Gaider so surprised when the vast majority of players saved the mages in Origins instead of a more equal split?