8640 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Its a choice to leave the cities and join the Dalish. I'm not saying there's a huge trend of elves not being servants and rising up in the world. No, they can't become nobles and not many can become merchants, though you will find a elven merchants in the seedier areas of Kirkwall. Most must seek employment as workers, perhaps as laborer, farmhands, we did encounter a Hunter in awakening. Frankly though, that makes them no different from the lot of most humans. How many peasants can just up and become merchants. They have the freedom to try, not a guarantee of success.

 

Well you have choice to escape tevinter slavers same here you have scape from society... so either serve me or die simple they won't use force they will use system... as i said society works against elves and only legal ways is either work as servant or try business in alienage other aren't forbidden by law bot way how society works makes it impossible.

 

And no society doesn't work against pesants at least in ferelden when they are free no one will burn your house so ultimately deepends on you of course peoples never will be equal neither chances but you have them in elves case this chance are doors with plate "open" but are closed... 

 

Only other kind of elves are criminals like bards or just prostitutes eventually i can see elves in independent organisation like mercenaries or if you are lucky will meet kind individual who will give you job but outside it society won't...

[Aremce]

I like how both sides have people who seem to completely agree. Kind of shows that the presentation of the problem cannot be that bad.

 

(I personally still believe in a "middle ground" solution, however, and always will. In my opinion, neither mages nor templars have the right to just try and wipe the other side out. They both have understandable reasons and make good points, and they will need to find a new way to work together.)

[Iron Fist]

I previously suggested that the Grey Wardens act as an impartial third party in the mage-templar conflict. Some people didn't like that idea.

 

What about the Legion of the Dead?

[Hellion Rex]

I previously suggested that the Grey Wardens act as an impartial third party in the mage-templar conflict. Some people didn't like that idea.

 

What about the Legion of the Dead?

I mean, what stake do the Legions of the Dead have in the conflict? They have no real authority, and they exist outside of the spectrum since they are dwarves.

[Aremce]

I previously suggested that the Grey Wardens act as an impartial third party in the mage-templar conflict. Some people didn't like that idea.

 

What about the Legion of the Dead?

Well, may I dare to suggest the Inquisition as the third party? I would love to tell the mages and templars to shut up and cooperate if they want to survive. The Reapers demons are coming, after all.

(Pretty sure someone must have said this before in some thread, but I cannot resist. )

[Iron Fist]

Well, may I dare to suggest the Inquisition as the third party? I would love to tell the mages and templars to shut up and cooperate if they want to survive. The Reapers demons are coming, after all.

(Pretty sure someone must have said this before in some thread, but I cannot resist. )

 

As of now, I view the Inquisition as a bunch of vigilantes taking advantage of the world's shitty condition.

[Aremce]

As of now, I view the Inquisition as a bunch of vigilantes taking advantage of the world's shitty condition.

It's *our* organisation. If what has been said so far is reliable, we will be able to shape it as we wish ... to some extend, of course, there can never be unlimited options.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well, may I dare to suggest the Inquisition as the third party? I would love to tell the mages and templars to shut up and cooperate if they want to survive. The Reapers demons are coming, after all.

(Pretty sure someone must have said this before in some thread, but I cannot resist. )

Yeah we should send demon mages im sure they will be nice power upgrade for demons ups oh mages are as well portal for demons that didn't cross veil send templars there not guys that can't win any battle and make demons more powerfull...

[LobselVith8]

Well, may I dare to suggest the Inquisition as the third party? I would love to tell the mages and templars to shut up and cooperate if they want to survive. The Reapers demons are coming, after all.
(Pretty sure someone must have said this before in some thread, but I cannot resist. )

The developers have said the Inquisitor can choose between the mages and the templars. I'm not certain if an armistice between the two is possible, however. Both sides seem to want the exact opposite of the other, after all.

[Iron Fist]

It's *our* organisation. If what has been said so far is reliable, we will be able to shape it as we wish ... to some extend, of course, there can never be unlimited options.

 

I'm looking at the Inquisition from an outsider's perspective. The Inquisition has no authority when the game begins. And what happens to it after the game ends? We don't know yet. All of this uncertainty about the organization leaves me with a negative opinion of it.

 

I also don't trust elements of the Grey Wardens, whose role in the international community is waning with every new Blight (which is a finite occurrence). They need a new role to play (mage-templar conflict resolution and peace maintenance), in my opinion.

 

If not them, the Legion of the Dead might do well.

[The Elder King]

The developers have said the Inquisitor can choose between the mages and the templars. I'm not certain if an armistice between the two is possible, however. Both sides seem to want the exact opposite of the other, after all.

I don't recall when they state that. Was it in the GI coverage?
I recall that during the PAX demo they stated that 'we have to find a balance between the mages and the templars'.
I think an armistice is possible, expecially in the case the war will not end in DAI, since it'd be a temporary ceasefire.

[TK514]

I like how both sides have people who seem to completely agree. Kind of shows that the presentation of the problem cannot be that bad.

(I personally still believe in a "middle ground" solution, however, and always will. In my opinion, neither mages nor templars have the right to just try and wipe the other side out. They both have understandable reasons and make good points, and they will need to find a new way to work together.)

My personal preference wasn't an option in DA2, namely telling both sides to shut the hell up and act like adults. One of the reasons Anders pissed me off so much is because his stupidity led to one single success on his part, he removed the option for the Champion to talk matters down. He basically failed his way to success. If DA:I can only give me one thing I want, then let it be the ability to render his actions completely meaningless.

Edited because the extra didn't really add anything.

[KaiserShep]

It would sure suck if a middle ground solution was not possible no matter what you did.

[LobselVith8]

I don't recall when they state that. Was it in the GI coverage?
I recall that during the PAX demo they stated that 'we have to find a balance between the mages and the templars'.
I think an armistice is possible, expecially in the case the war will not end in DAI, since it'd be a temporary ceasefire.

Mark Darrah said it in the video where he talked about the Inquisition, when he described how the player would shape the organization; he seemed to want to get the message across that the player would determine what kind of organization the Inquisition would be.

[Aremce]

Ok, sorry, long post incoming.

 

The developers have said the Inquisitor can choose between the mages and the templars. I'm not certain if an armistice between the two is possible, however. Both sides seem to want the exact opposite of the other, after all.

 

If that is the case, then I'm hoping the Inquisitor will also have the option to just abandon both of them ... Or at least not help one side crush the other side, because being forced to do so is what I would truly hate.

 

I'm looking at the Inquisition from an outsider's perspective. The Inquisition has no authority when the game begins. And what happens to it after the game ends? We don't know yet. All of this uncertainty about the organization leaves me with a negative opinion of it.

 

I also don't trust elements of the Grey Wardens, whose role in the international community is waning with every new Blight (which is a finite occurrence). They need a new role to play (mage-templar conflict resolution and peace maintenance), in my opinion.

 

If not them, the Legion of the Dead might do well.

 

I still think the Inquisition makes more sense than the Wardens (which already have another purpose) and the Legion of the Dead (same, and also ... aren't they, like, almost wiped out in Awakening?).

 

I think an armistice is possible, expecially in the case the war will not end in DAI, since it'd be a temporary ceasefire.

 

That would be okay, I hope this is possible.

 

My personal preference wasn't an option in DA2, namely telling both sides to shut the hell up and act like adults. One of the reasons Anders pissed me off so much is because his stupidity led to one single success on his part, he removed the option for the Champion to talk matters down. He basically failed his way to success. If DA:I can only give me one thing I want, then let it be the ability to render his actions completely meaningless.

Edited because the extra didn't really add anything.

 

... and then almost nobody cared about Anders not being a circle mage. I'm still a bit frustrated because Hawke couldn't even suggest punishing Anders instead of invoking the Right of Anullment for something the circle mages didn't even do ... Please don't let this happen again. :/

[KaiserShep]

 

... and then almost nobody cared about Anders not being a circle mage. I'm still a bit frustrated because Hawke couldn't even suggest punishing Anders instead of invoking the Right of Anullment for something the circle mages didn't even do ... Please don't let this happen again. :/

 

The problem is that Meredith doesn't care what you say at that point. If Sebastian is in your group, he says something to the effect of the pointlessness of dicussing the Right of Annulment when the culprit is right there. She already knows that the Circle itself had nothing to do with it, as Orsino pleads, since Anders is known by the templars to be an apostate, and even if you kill Anders, she insists on going forward anyway. Whatever her reasoning prior to that event, she's already insistent that the people will want retribution.

[EmissaryofLies]

147 pages of people agreeing with one another and coming to a common realization that cooperation would be preferable.

 

I must say, I'm thoroughly impressed. 

[LobselVith8]

If that is the case, then I'm hoping the Inquisitor will also have the option to just abandon both of them ... Or at least not help one side crush the other side, because being forced to do so is what I would truly hate.

 

I can understand that view, since I think Dragon Age II presented both at their worst (and to their detriment). I'm honestly not certain how it'll come across. Gaider has stated that they want to give some depth to the causes of the factions, apparently to make them three-dimensional, which I think is a great idea. The story of Dragon Age II never really went into detail with the struggles of either side, often demonizing templars and mages at the expense of providing the protagonist with the complexities of either viewpoint. I'm not really certain about how I'll handle the Dwarven or Vashoth protagonist at this point (since we know so little about their respective backgrounds), but I think a Dalish would be cautious of both, given the role of templars being viewed as "mage hunters", and the Circle being implied (by Ariane) to have played a role in the defeat and fall of the Dales.

 

I'm curious how the leaders and followers of both factions will be presented. How will Lambert's faction respond to a free mage acting as the Inquisitor? Will they be concerned that an independent mage is gathering an army, and gaining political power? How is Divine Justina V's sect going to respond to an apostate or maleficar who is developing an organization "in opposition" to the Chantry? Is a Seeker or templar background going to be possible for players who are interested in allying themselves with either division of the Order? Who will be leading the Seekers and templars if Lambert is still missing in action? Are there going to be multiple leaders for each group, representing different viewpoints and extremes of their causes?

[Heimdall]

Well you have choice to escape tevinter slavers same here you have scape from society... so either serve me or die simple they won't use force they will use system... as i said society works against elves and only legal ways is either work as servant or try business in alienage other aren't forbidden by law bot way how society works makes it impossible.

And no society doesn't work against pesants at least in ferelden when they are free no one will burn your house so ultimately deepends on you of course peoples never will be equal neither chances but you have them in elves case this chance are doors with plate "open" but are closed...

Only other kind of elves are criminals like bards or just prostitutes eventually i can see elves in independent organisation like mercenaries or if you are lucky will meet kind individual who will give you job but outside it society won't...

One does not have to be a slave to run away from a bad situation. Neither does a bad situation constitute slavery. And like I said, it isn't impossible, I've even told you about known instances when elves have been able to survive outside the alienages and not all of them are criminals. Life is hard whether your human or elf, not being able to become a merchant or a craftsmen is a lot shared by most human peasants as well. You entirely missed the point of the peasant comparison. I've already shown you that mobs don't lynch every elf that dares set foot outside an alienage.

You don't seem to get that slavery is a very specific condition. Yes, elves don't have as many option as their human neighbors (Though not by much). Yes, those options they have a difficult paths to walk. However, slavery is a relationship in which one person has legally enforceable claims over another person as private property. You can't just say "Oh, his life is hard and he doesn't have a lot of options, so he's a slave".

[Nightdragon8]

One does not have to be a slave to run away from a bad situation. Neither does a bad situation constitute slavery. And like I said, it isn't impossible, I've even told you about known instances when elves have been able to survive outside the alienages and not all of them are criminals. Life is hard whether your human or elf, not being able to become a merchant or a craftsmen is a lot shared by most human peasants as well. You entirely missed the point of the peasant comparison. I've already shown you that mobs don't lynch every elf that dares set foot outside an alienage.

You don't seem to get that slavery is a very specific condition. Yes, elves don't have as many option as their human neighbors (Though not by much). Yes, those options they have a difficult paths to walk. However, slavery is a relationship in which one person has legally enforceable claims over another person as private property. You can't just say "Oh, his life is hard and he doesn't have a lot of options, so he's a slave".

basicly its alot like after the Slaves where freed in the US after the Civil war, they where no longer "slaves" but them getting jobs was rather hard and in some cases worse than slavery.

[Heimdall]

basicly its alot like after the Slaves where freed in the US after the Civil war, they where no longer "slaves" but them getting jobs was rather hard and in some cases worse than slavery.

Yet it was not slavery. I've studied slavery in the US and I'm familiar with its nature and conditions. Poverty and discrimination are not the same as slavery.

[LobselVith8]

Yet it was not slavery. I've studied slavery in the US and I'm familiar with its nature and conditions. Poverty and discrimination are not the same as slavery.

 

In past discussions about whether or not the Chantry controlled Circles were slavery, non-US slavery was brought up as examples. I have to concede that Silfren would be better informed about the nature of those discussions, however.

[TK514]

In past discussions about whether or not the Chantry controlled Circles were slavery, non-US slavery was brought up as examples. I have to concede that Silfren would be better informed about the nature of those discussions, however.

 

I don't think it's ever been contested, regardless of location, that an inherent condition of slavery is that the enslaved is property of the slaver.  That alone prevents the Circle from being slavery, regardless of other conditions or addendums.

 

Unless the contention is that Anders, and others, were speaking metaphorically, as, for example, an addict is a slave to their vice.

[Heimdall]

I don't think it's ever been contested, regardless of location, that an inherent condition of slavery is that the enslaved is property of the slaver. 

Very important.

[renfrees]

The problem is that Meredith doesn't care what you say at that point. If Sebastian is in your group, he says something to the effect of the pointlessness of dicussing the Right of Annulment when the culprit is right there. She already knows that the Circle itself had nothing to do with it, as Orsino pleads, since Anders is known by the templars to be an apostate, and even if you kill Anders, she insists on going forward anyway. Whatever her reasoning prior to that event, she's already insistent that the people will want retribution.

You forget, that DA is a Medieval setting at best. The concepts of human rights were vastly different back then, and you have to take it into account, when you gauge some conflicts, that has already happened. On the other hand, the concept of retribution were very familiar, as well as religious fanaticism, and if combined... So, i daresay that Meredith was right - it doesn't matter if you spared or executed Anders, the Kirkwallers would have torn Circle to shreds as well, as any apostate who wouldn't fled the city. Would be the same as Annulment, just with much greater civilian costs, aka lives. Kirkwall doesn't have BBC, CNN and the likes to calm down the mob.

 

Stop judging from the height of 21th century, if you want to understand Thedas and its mentality. I don't say you have to support it or accept it, but ignorance is shallow.