So, i daresay that Meredith was right - it doesn't matter if you spared or executed Anders, the Kirkwallers would have torn Circle to shreds as well, as any apostate who wouldn't fled the city. Would be the same as Annulment, just with much greater civilian costs, aka lives. Kirkwall doesn't have BBC, CNN and the likes to calm down the mob.
Not if the Templars did their jobs. The Gallows is a fortress for a reason.
Not if the Templars did their jobs. The Gallows is a fortress for a reason.
So the Templars risk even further political upheaval and thus the possibility of executing citizens of kirkwall and alienating their order in the city for the second time this century.
Or they invoke an anullment that while justified doesn't fit the crime at the moment?
Great Options.
Honestly its so much simpler when you don't apply this level of though to it; Either the Mages deserve to die or they don't, not that possibly Meredith have valid political reasoning for the move even though she didn't have probable justification for it.
Not if the Templars did their jobs. The Gallows is a fortress for a reason.
The Templar Order is under jurisdiction of the Chantry, and you say they must protect the Mages from citizens of their city after a Mage has blown the Chantry? Again, you are judging from 21th Cent. standpoint. Shall we talk about medieval concepts of retribution all over?
Honestly its so much simpler when you don't apply this level of though to it; Either the Mages deserve to die or they don't, not that possibly Meredith have valid political reasoning for the move even though she didn't have probable justification for it.
It is simple: They don't.
It is simple: They don't.
The rampant corruption in that circle belies that statement.
The problem is that Meredith doesn't care what you say at that point. If Sebastian is in your group, he says something to the effect of the pointlessness of dicussing the Right of Annulment when the culprit is right there. She already knows that the Circle itself had nothing to do with it, as Orsino pleads, since Anders is known by the templars to be an apostate, and even if you kill Anders, she insists on going forward anyway. Whatever her reasoning prior to that event, she's already insistent that the people will want retribution.
It's also important to note that if Kerras lives past act 1, he'll tell Hawke that she's been requesting the Right for some time, and the fact that Elthina refused her wasn't going to stop her seeking approval, and was appealing to the Divine.
She was angling to annul that circle for a long time, even before Anders blew up the chantry.
Corruption of SOME of the Circle, as in corruption that can be stopped without resulting to murdering every man, woman, and child inside.
It's also important to note that if Kerras lives past act 1, he'll tell Hawke that she's been requesting the Right for some time, and the fact that Elthina refused her wasn't going to stop her seeking approval, and was appealing to the Divine.
She was angling to annul that circle for a long time, even before Anders blew up the chantry.
Again for the massive corruption plaguing it to its highest levels.
Or the rampant corruption of all the....blood mages that were killed in Thrask's rebellion.
After that rebellion, most of the mages who were working, with templars I might add, to remove Meredith from her position of power were dead.
There's no evidence that after that event that the Circle was blatantly corrupt. Orsino is for hiding blood mages, but we don't have any proof that the Circle as a whole is corrupt.
Unless you want to call bethany corrupt.
Again for the massive corruption plaguing it to its highest levels.
Name one mage who survives Thraks's rebellion who isn't Orsin that is corrupt.
Again for the massive corruption plaguing it to its highest levels.
Was there actual proof that there was corruption at its highest level?
Corruption of SOME of the Circle, as in corruption that can be stopped without resulting to murdering every man, woman, and child inside.
But Shinra Tensei is so much more Satisfying then poking them to see if they are possessed!
Joking aside.
How much corruption do you warrant before a circle is lost? Orsino was corrupt, Numerous Enchanters and Senior Enchanters were corrupt, The Base Mages were corrupt, About every group of Apostates you run into are formerly of that circle. Almost all of these said people were blood mages, demon worshipers and followers of the same lunacy of Anders.
:/ You would risk an entire city to save possibly 3 to 10% of a circle when the rest of it is rotten to the core?
Was there actual proof that there was corruption at its highest level?
He thinks because Orsino hid Quentin in Act 2, he's hiding all the Senior Enchanters also being blood mages or something. The gist of his argument is that because Orsino is corrupt, the whole Circle is.
Name one mage who survives Thraks's rebellion who isn't Orsin that is corrupt.
Thrask's insurrection happens so late in game it isn't my fault nor my onus to provide the proof that is so blatantly there, Demons, Blood Mages and Abominations run rampant during the anulling of the circle.
You expect me like meredith to BELIEVE it ALL came out of THIN air?
But Shinra Tensei is so much more Satisfying then poking them to see if they are possessed!
Joking aside.
How much corruption do you warrant before a circle is lost? Orsino was corrupt, Numerous Enchanters and Senior Enchanters were corrupt, The Base Mages were corrupt, About every group of Apostates you run into are formerly of that circle. Almost all of these said people were blood mages, demon worshipers and followers of the same lunacy of Anders.
:/ You would risk an entire city to save possibly 3 to 10% of a circle when the rest of it is rotten to the core?
No, I wouldn't. I would put the mages in quarantine while a thorough search is done after the chantry was destroyed. I would arrest any mage that had any evidence of blood magic. But since the Gallows is on an island, I would cut mages off from the main city while the city guard restored order. Then I would hold a very public trial and execution of Anders, and lay all the blame on the actual guilty party.
I don't recall off the top of my head, but weren't quite a lot of the apostates in Kirkwall either never in the Circle in the first place, or from foreign Circles altogether?
Annulling the whole Circle in unnecessary, a change in leadership is called for though
Thrask's insurrection happens so late in game it isn't my fault nor my onus to provide the proof that is so blatantly there, Demons, Blood Mages and Abominations run rampant during the anulling of the circle.
You expect me like meredith to BELIEVE it ALL came out of THIN air?
Oh, great idea. Let's put mages into a life or death scenario for something they didn't do, and if they get desperate enough to summon demons or use blood while they're being executed enmasse for something they are innocent of, that MUST mean they were guilty from the start?
(sarcasm)
Oh, great idea. Let's put mages into a life or death scenario for something they didn't do, and if they get desperate enough to summon demons or use blood while they're being executed enmasse for something they are innocent of, that MUST mean they were guilty from the start?
(sarcasm)
Yes.
No, I wouldn't. I would put the mages in quarantine while a thorough search is done after the chantry was destroyed. I would arrest any mage that had any evidence of blood magic. But since the Gallows is on an island, I would cut mages off from the main city while the city guard restored order. Then I would hold a very public trial and execution of Anders, and lay all the blame on the actual guilty party.
Thing is, you're not being influenced by a red lyrium sword you've had in your possession for year(s).
But Shinra Tensei is so much more Satisfying then poking them to see if they are possessed!
Joking aside.
How much corruption do you warrant before a circle is lost? Orsino was corrupt, Numerous Enchanters and Senior Enchanters were corrupt, The Base Mages were corrupt, About every group of Apostates you run into are formerly of that circle. Almost all of these said people were blood mages, demon worshipers and followers of the same lunacy of Anders.
:/ You would risk an entire city to save possibly 3 to 10% of a circle when the rest of it is rotten to the core?
If we had the power of Shinra Tensei, then maybe. 
My personal opinion? I would say when there was no other course of action, like if the abominations had found that tunnel leading out of the Gallows into Darktown. Remember that the Gallows is an island, so they only have one way out and it was the Lyrium smuggling tunnels. That and boats I suppose but boats can be taken out easily. If the Templars couldn't hold the tunnels, then you'd have no choice.
I don't recall off the top of my head, but weren't quite a lot of the apostates in Kirkwall either never in the Circle in the first place, or from foreign Circles altogether?
The only non Kirkwallers off the top of my head were the Elven Apostates and those Starkhaven mages.
The rest of them are presumbly from the Circle of Kirkwall.
Annulling the whole Circle in unnecessary, a change in leadership is called for though
I will agree with that. Orsino would have to be removed when discovered he helped Quentin.
You forget, that DA is a Medieval setting at best. The concepts of human rights were vastly different back then, and you have to take it into account, when you gauge some conflicts, that has already happened. On the other hand, the concept of retribution were very familiar, as well as religious fanaticism, and if combined... So, i daresay that Meredith was right - it doesn't matter if you spared or executed Anders, the Kirkwallers would have torn Circle to shreds as well, as any apostate who wouldn't fled the city. Would be the same as Annulment, just with much greater civilian costs, aka lives. Kirkwall doesn't have BBC, CNN and the likes to calm down the mob.
Stop judging from the height of 21th century, if you want to understand Thedas and its mentality. I don't say you have to support it or accept it, but ignorance is shallow.
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