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[Master Warder Z_]

If we had the power of Shinra Tensei, then maybe.

 

My personal opinion? I would say when there was no other course of action, like if the abominations had found that tunnel leading out of the Gallows into Darktown. Remember that the Gallows is an island, so they only have one way out and it was the Lyrium smuggling tunnels. That and boats I suppose but boats can be taken out easily. If the Templars couldn't hold the tunnels, then you'd have no choice.

 

I want the world to know pain! 

 

I suppose if the option presented it self; I would settle for mass executions of the blood mages, a public trial and execution for Orsino, Anders and Any other Senior Enchanter caught with a WHIFF of blood magic swirling around them.

 

Rather then anulling the circle; Meredith called it half right.

 

It was time to start again by the end of act three.

 

:/ But it doesn't go down like that, Its all or nothing.

 

Except all in this case is better then nothing.

[LobselVith8]

I will agree with that. Orsino would have to be removed when discovered he helped Quentin.

Orsino helping Quentin (who may be from Starkhaven, given the note in Gascard's manor) and Meredith acquiring the lyrium idol never seemed to make much sense, aside from being used to explain why Orsino and Meredith turned into horrible monstrosities. I think the narrative would have been vastly improved by having them as flawed leaders who had opposing ideologies, but who didn't devolve into horrific abominations.

[KaiserShep]

Maybe Meredith thought that the lyrium idol would be an even more effective weapon against the maleficarum. After all, they already snort glowing lines to fight the magickers.

[TK514]

Corruption of SOME of the Circle, as in corruption that can be stopped without resulting to murdering every man, woman, and child inside.

Except the entire reason for annulment is because there is no way to tell who is corrupted and who is not. Nor who is possessed and who is not. They could spare that man, woman or child, send them to another circle and have them corrupt a circle that was previously untainted, resulting in even more unnecessary deaths.

Is it terrible? Sure. But it is also the only way to prevent further unnecessary tragedy.

[Steelcan]

Orsino helping Quentin (who may be from Starkhaven, given the note in Gascard's manor) and Meredith acquiring the lyrium idol never seemed to make much sense, aside from being used to explain why Orsino and Meredith turned into horrible monstrosities. I think the narrative would have been vastly improved by having them as flawed leaders who had opposing ideologies, but who didn't devolve into horrific abominations.

 

While we are at it the narrative could have been improved by just about anything

[KaiserShep]

Except the entire reason for annulment is because there is no way to tell who is corrupted and who is not. Nor who is possessed and who is not. They could spare that man, woman or child, send them to another circle and have them corrupt a circle that was previously untainted, resulting in even more unnecessary deaths.

Is it terrible? Sure. But it is also the only way to prevent further unnecessary tragedy.

 

Funnily enough, by the end of Act 1, the same could be said of the Templars as well, thanks to Tarohne and her minions.

[Master Warder Z_]

Funnily enough, by the end of Act 1, the same could be said of the Templars as well, thanks to Tarohne and her minions.

 

Considering you can nip that in the bud pretty darn effectively in that same act, i wouldn't say the situations are comparable.

 

I mean all those involved are either dead or under watch, in Kerran's case he may not even be a Templar anymore.

[The Baconer]

So the Templars risk even further political upheaval and thus the possibility of executing citizens of kirkwall and alienating their order in the city for the second time this century.

Meredith already usurped the throne of the Viscount, they've already alienated the nobility.

 

The Templar Order is under jurisdiction of the Chantry, and you say they must protect the Mages from citizens of their city after a Mage has blown the Chantry? Again, you are judging from 21th Cent. standpoint. Shall we talk about medieval concepts of retribution all over?

 

Yes. If they're going to claim that protecting mages from the common folk is part of their charge, then existing concepts of retribution are irrelevant. Otherwise, there's no reason that mages should be expected to put any stock in the Circle system.

[renfrees]

Or the rampant corruption of all the....blood mages that were killed in Thrask's rebellion.

 

After that rebellion, most of the mages who were working, with templars I might add, to remove Meredith from her position of power were dead. 

 

There's no evidence that after that event that the Circle was blatantly corrupt. Orsino is for hiding blood mages, but we don't have any proof that the Circle as a whole is corrupt.

 

Unless you want to call bethany corrupt.

Have you checked the Knight-Commander's and First Enchanter's wing in the Templar Hall during the Last Straw? Have you checked the room with thralled Templars? If you side with the Templars:

-Templar' Hall main entrance - summoned shades and demons;

-Left wing - abominations, demons and undead;

-Right wing - blood mages, demons, shades, thralled Templars;

-Oh, and Orsino to top it all.

 

So, which Circle mages weren't corrupt beside Bethany?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Have you checked the Knight-Commander's and First Enchanter's wing in the Templar Hall during the Last Straw? Have you checked the room with thralled Templars? If you side with the Templars:

-Templar' Hall main entrance - summoned shades and demons;

-Left wing - abominations, demons and undead;

-Right wing - blood mages, demons, shades, thralled Templars;

-Oh, and Orsino to top it all.

 

So, which Circle mages weren't corrupt beside Bethany?

So you have a couple dozen? Now how about the other few hundred?

 

Though that poses an interesting point. If you side with the Templars, why aren't you allowed to slaughter your way through scores and scores of innocents?

[Hellion Rex]

Again for the massive corruption plaguing it to its highest levels.

Right, and the Templars are squeaky clean too, I'll bet.

[LobselVith8]

So you have a couple dozen? Now how about the other few hundred?

Though that poses an interesting point. If you side with the Templars, why aren't you allowed to slaughter your way through scores and scores of innocents? I mean, besides it showing how messed up the Right of Annulments are?

Helping carry out the executions of innocents, including children, probably would skew things.

[renfrees]

So you have a couple dozen? Now how about the other few hundred?

 

Though that poses an interesting point. If you side with the Templars, why aren't you allowed to slaughter your way through scores and scores of innocents?

You are allowed to spare some innocents, which is frankly more than if you side with the Mages. The irony

[Divine Justinia V]

You are allowed to spare some innocents, which is frankly more than if you side with the Mages. The irony

There's still a pretty big group of Templars alive after you kill Meredith, you see them group around you once she dies

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You are allowed to spare some innocents, which is frankly more than if you side with the Mages. The irony

If you side with the mages, a lot of mages escape after the Templars stand down after the death of Meredith. At least that's what I took from what Varric says afterwords.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There's still a pretty big group of Templars alive after you kill Meredith, you see them group around you once she dies

I think they meant more mages live if you side with the Templars than the Mages.

[Divine Justinia V]

I think they meant more mages live if you side with the Templars than the Mages.

Yeah, I gathered that after the fact lol. I read things too quickly sometime

 

but! Either way, more Templars survive than anything. (imo)

[renfrees]

If you side with the mages, a lot of mages escape after the Templars stand down after the death of Meredith. At least that's what I took from what Varric says afterwords.

I took that Annulment stops with the death of Meredith and Cullen taking the command. Either way, the Gallows prison is kind of last stand - you have to fight all the way out of it (and not find a single uncorrupted mage), if you side with the Mages, or you have to fight all the way to it (and spare/kill some innocent mages), if you side with the Templars. After Orsino fight, if you side with the Templars, Meredith says that its over, thus i assume that Annulment is done (and prison is the last stand).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, I gathered that after the fact lol. I read things too quickly sometime

 

but! Either way, more Templars survive than anything. (imo)

Yeah, if you are trying to save as many lives as possible, siding with the Mages is the way to go since the Templars that die by you are less than the number of mages presumably killed by the Templars if they succeed.

[renfrees]

Yeah, if you are trying to save as many lives as possible, siding with the Mages is the way to go since the Templars that die by you are less than the number of mages presumably killed by the Templars if they succeed.

As i pointed above, presumably all other Circle mages is already killed by the time the Templars approach Gallows prison, thus effectively leaving (possibly) only Bethany alive, as Hawke's mages is an apostates.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As i pointed above, presumably all other Circle mages is already killed by the time the Templars approach Gallows prison, thus effectively leaving (possibly) only Bethany alive, as Hawke's mages is an apostates.

Well, even if you side with the Templars and don't spare the mages, there are some mages who escape to spread word of the Kirkwall Incident.

 

But I have to admit, this thought has plagued my mind and resulted in a few siding with the Templar playthroughs in case it is right because then at least the Templars, who are just as innocent as the majority of the mages for the most part, are spared as many casualties.

[LobselVith8]

You are allowed to spare some innocents, which is frankly more than if you side with the Mages. The irony

Three mages, who might be made tranquil, based on what was said in the thread "Why is the Right of Annulment massacre instead of Tranquility?"

Three, out of hundreds. Not much. Contrast that with Varric's dialogue, where he only says "many survived" if the Champion protects the mages against Meredith's genocidal attempt. It's easy to see that protecting mages will save more lives than actively killing them.

[Steelcan]

Three mages, who might be made tranquil, based on what was said in the thread "Why is the Right of Annulment massacre instead of Tranquility?"

Three, out of hundreds. Not much. Contrast that with Varric's dialogue, where he only says "many survived" if the Champion protects the mages against Meredith's genocidal attempt. It's easy to see that protecting mages will save more lives than actively killing them.

 

I wonder how many hundred of people were killed by the demons and abominations the mages unleashed?

[LobselVith8]

I wonder how many hundred of people were killed by the demons and abominations the mages unleashed?

You mean when Meredith decided to condemn an entire population of people who were innocent of Anders' actions because "the people will demand blood"? I'm not going to help kill hundreds of men, women, and children for something they didn't do, whether it's over Anders' actions, Orsino's actions, or a handful of criminals who don't represent a populace that was in the hundreds before the influx of Starkhaven mages.

If the templar leadership in Inquisition is anything like Meredith, their representation isn't going to do much to sway me.

[renfrees]

Three mages, who might be made tranquil, based on what was said in the thread "Why is the Right of Annulment massacre instead of Tranquility?"

Three, out of hundreds. Not much. Contrast that with Varric's dialogue, where he only says "many survived" if the Champion protects the mages against Meredith's genocidal attempt. It's easy to see that protecting mages will save more lives than actively killing them.

'Many lived to tell the tale' doesn't mean they were mages. They could just as well be the remaining Templars in the Gallows courtyard, citizens of Kirkwall as well as Hawke's companions.