And I think you are stretching this a tad lol
Yeah, Elthina had her faults, but a duplitious nature or the ability to be in agreement with Petrice was not one of them.
The funny thing is, on my first play through Petrice didn't really seem that big of a character to me.
Why's that?
Elthina had her faults, but a duplitious nature or the ability to be in agreement with Petrice was not one of them. The whole thing her character is built around is compromise and working out a solution. It is both her strength and according to some her weakness, siding with or using Petrice would be anathema to her.
Why's that?
Like the poster above me said, it seems completely anathema to her character and personality, at least in my own eyes.
And I think you are stretching this a tad lol
Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. But there are quite a few little things that don't add up to her being a benevolent pacifist.
Her lack of reaction to Petrice's death. Her inability to get involved in anything, including the qunari issue. Her lack of surprise when Petrice brings her in and shows her all the corpses of the people Hawke killed in self-defense.
She seems the loving grandmother type, but she has a remarkably calm facade at all times except when she is surprised she's being advised to leave Kirkwall for her own safety.
There's no evidence whatsoever of her behaving in duplicitous behavior or is a criminal. But when I was playing my first time, I kept asking myself (and my first playthrough was without Sebastian's DLC so I never met him during that playthough) "what will it take to phase this woman?"
In an attempt to steer this back from Petrice and Elthina (as much as I like to talk about them) to mages, I'd like to say that of DA2s anatagonists Petrice, Meredith (even despite the idol) and the Arishok were probably the ones best executed. They get plenty of screen time, we get to see them develop and we get to explore their characters.
This is something the mage antagonists of the game lack. Most are one-shot villains, often of the cardboard variety. I like Grace, but I think she could've been so much better done. The idea of a mage getting consumed by desires of revenge and valuing it far over freedom, enough to derail a coup, is not a bad one. But it lacked... among other things... we never truly saw her descend into that (whereas Petrice absolutely had progression).
Orsino is only a true antagonist for like 5 minutes. Prior to that he's actually seemingly innocent. He more or less comes out of nowhere, unlike Meredith who dorectly or indirectly had her presence felt from act 1.
Of all the mage antagonists, I'd say only Anders is well done. And even then, it's debatable if he's an antagonist at all.
SO here's to hoping we'll get more mage anatagonists and that this time, they're far more interesting than DA2's variants. More like Petrice, Arishok or Meredith. People that'll earn our emnity, respect and/or sympathy.
In an attempt to steer this back from Petrice and Elthina (as much as I like to talk about them) to mages, I'd like to say that of DA2s anatagonists Petrice, Meredith (even despite the idol) and the Arishok were probably the ones best executed. They get plenty of screen time, we get to see them develop and we get to explore their characters.
This is something the mage antagonists of the game lack. Most are one-shot villains, often of the cardboard variety. I like Grace, but I think she could've been so much better done. The idea of a mage getting consumed by desires of revenge and valuing it far over freedom, enough to derail a coup, is not a bad one. But it lacked... among other things... we never truly saw her descend into that (whereas Petrice absolutely had progression).
Orsino is only a true antagonist for like 5 minutes. Prior to that he's actually seemingly innocent. He more or less comes out of nowhere, unlike Meredith who dorectly or indirectly had her presence felt from act 1.
Of all the mage antagonists, I'd say only Anders is well done. And even then, it's debatable if he's an antagonist at all.
SO here's to hoping we'll get more mage anatagonists and that this time, they're far more interesting than DA2's variants. More like Petrice, Arishok or Meredith. People that'll earn our emnity, respect and/or sympathy.
Perhaps we might find a more interesting mage antagonist within this new Venatori faction.
Perhaps we might find a more interesting mage antagonist within this new Venatori faction.
Hopefully.
I distinctly remember someone claiming that since Elthina was old, she was absolved of much guilt.
I disagree. Even though DA2 did indeed show many extremes, I still found characters on both sides of the equation to be very sympathetic, regardless of allegiance.
Agreed.
I distinctly remember someone claiming that since Elthina was old, she was absolved of much guilt.
In my mind, that would only work as a valid defense if she was proven and undeniably senile.
She isn't, so as Grand Cleric, she does bear some responsibility for Kirkwall, even if she isn't directly the cause of the problems.
Although, something struck me as odd that whole scene. After she's shot in the head, Elthina simply keeps walking and doesn't seem surprised at all.
Hawke and company are obviously surprised it happened when it happened, but Elthina didn't.
I like to think that for all her "murder is wrong" thing, she was probably relieved to be rid of her.
I distinctly remember someone claiming that since Elthina was old, she was absolved of much guilt.
With that logic, Avernus would have been extremely guilt free then.
Oh god not more mage villains or antagonists i hope for someone sane and/or intelligent and capable creating good plans not another idiot that cryies that is abused and innocent and then chop peoples onto pieces and sounds like psycho-maniac (and is one).
I don't know give me leader of criminal organization that will try gain control over economy and use current situation to get more influence and money or just smart individual that tries use chaos for own personal benefit ,just not another whiny mage...
About elthina im glad anders ended her life damn worst leader ever she was dumb puppet and thought if she will left that situation maker will slove all problems and everyone will be happy what an idiot...
I like to think that for all her "murder is wrong" thing, she was probably relieved to be rid of her.
Can you blame her though?
The big L-man? Hell yes, she beats him by miles.
Edit: Scratch that, I know the woman to whom you are referring....and they are pretty neck and neck.
You're referring to Adrian, I suspect?
You're referring to Adrian, I suspect?
Bingo. I must say I am actually unsure which character I absolutely hate more.
Well, to me there are a lot of characters that are "sympathetic" even if they're still clearly villains or bad or otherwise problematic for Kirkwall. Even Meredith was kind of sympathetic for me in the very end, even though for most of the game she hadn't been. But I'm trying to think of mages or templars that I respected enough to consider a net force for good and can't think of any. Thrask was the closest and he bungled the hell out of that.
I like to think that for all her "murder is wrong" thing, she was probably relieved to be rid of her.
Probably, but she liked her enough to make her a Revered Mother.
Going back to Eluvianix's thing, about how she may not have been surprised her actions caught up to her.
I posted a comment on this but I thought I'd expand that thought. If Elthina knew what Petrice was doing, then she also knew that Petrice was using her seal to provoke a conflict.
That begs the question, why didn't Elthina make a bigger deal about her seal? Or if she had and we simply hadn't heard of it, why is it so easy for her seal to get taken without her notice? The seal would be a ring on her finger would it not? Meant to seal Chantry documents with her authority. If she didn't know that Petrice used her seal, why isn't she ever curious about where it went?
The whole thing had me suspicious, but there's no proof. But I suspected that Elthina gave Petrice the seal, and then went on her way. Either she knew what Petrice was likely to do (since Petrice preaches against the Qunari every time she's at the pulpit) or Petrice stole the seal and we never hear Elthina make a fuss about it.
Bingo. I must say I am actually unsure which character I absolutely hate more.
Why? Adrian did what was necessary.
Well, to me there are a lot of characters that are "sympathetic" even if they're still clearly villains or bad or otherwise problematic for Kirkwall. Even Meredith was kind of sympathetic for me in the very end, even though for most of the game she hadn't been. But I'm trying to think of mages or templars that I respected enough to consider a net force for good and can't think of any. Thrask was the closest and he bungled the hell out of that.
True, although his biggest mistake was trusting Grace. But he managed to accomplish something pretty much every character up to that point said was impossible. He go mages and templar to work together towards a common goal. Removing Meredith from power she shouldn't have and regularly abused with more and more overreach of it.
I'm pretty neutral when it comes to mages vs Templars, but I thought Lambert was pretty badass and awesome in Asunder. The fact that I found Cole to be terribly annoying probably helped.
Why? Adrian did what was necessary.
Murdering the only person who is proof that tranquility is curable and framing your best friend/crush just to provoke a conflict is necessary?
Why? Adrian did what was necessary.
Necessary perhaps, but it was her methods that I took issue with.
I'm pretty neutral when it comes to mages vs Templars, but I thought Lambert was pretty badass and awesome in Asunder. The fact that I found Cole to be terribly annoying probably helped.
You didn't like Cole?
Why? Adrian did what was necessary.
Because they are two sides of the same coin. They are extremists who fully feel the ends justify the means and Adrian values human life in about the same way Petrice does. Actually Petrice may value life more.
Retour en haut