Murdering the only person who is proof that tranquility is curable and framing your best friend/crush just to provoke a conflict is necessary?
The former, absolutely; I don't even think it's really murder, as he definitely wanted to die. It was more like assisted suicide. Where Lambert took it later was bad, but it had to be done to show the Divine and the rest of the observers just how evil the templars had become.
You didn't like Cole?
Sorry, Luvy. But no I didn't like him. I see nothing but a demon who may quite possibly have been playing the victim card to get Rhys to lower his guard. Just my opinion though.
Probably, but she liked her enough to make her a Revered Mother.
Going back to Eluvianix's thing, about how she may not have been surprised her actions caught up to her.
I posted a comment on this but I thought I'd expand that thought. If Elthina knew what Petrice was doing, then she also knew that Petrice was using her seal to provoke a conflict.
That begs the question, why didn't Elthina make a bigger deal about her seal? Or if she had and we simply hadn't heard of it, why is it so easy for her seal to get taken without her notice? The seal would be a ring on her finger would it not? Meant to seal Chantry documents with her authority. If she didn't know that Petrice used her seal, why isn't she ever curious about where it went?
The whole thing had me suspicious, but there's no proof. But I suspected that Elthina gave Petrice the seal, and then went on her way. Either she knew what Petrice was likely to do (since Petrice preaches against the Qunari every time she's at the pulpit) or Petrice stole the seal and we never hear Elthina make a fuss about it.
In regards to Elthina's reaction to everything, she had faith. People who are truly capable of putting their faith into a Greater Being tend to possess a great deal of calm and acceptance regarding the world around them. She was shocked about being told to evacuate more for the idea that she was in danger than anything else.
The former, absolutely; I don't even think it's really murder, as he definitely wanted to die. It was more like assisted suicide. Where Lambert took it later was bad, but it had to be done to show the Divine and the rest of the observers just how evil the templars had become.
Granted, I do agree with the killing of Pharamond, because it would have been a mercy towards him. It is the absolute betrayal of a friend that I do not and will not ever condone. I sincerely wish Rhys had pushed her off the roof.
Because they are two sides of the same coin. They are extremists who fully feel the ends justify the means and Adrian values human life in about the same way Petrice does. Actually Petrice may value life more.
I don't believe that Petrice was worse than the qunari or the vast majority of templars, but her plan was ill-thought-out. Stopping the qunari is a laudable goal, but she tried using brute force instead of finding out what they wanted and trying to thwart it directly.
Granted, I do agree with the killing of Pharamond, because it would have been a mercy towards him. It is the absolute betrayal of a friend that I do not and will not ever condone. I sincerely wish Rhys had pushed her off the roof.
That it happened was unfortunate, but I'm not expecting Rhys to start liking her again.
Granted, I do agree with the killing of Pharamond, because it would have been a mercy towards him. It is the absolute betrayal of a friend that I do not and will not ever condone. I sincerely wish Rhys had pushed her off the roof.
It's okay. He has Evangeline now. 
The former, absolutely; I don't even think it's really murder, as he definitely wanted to die. It was more like assisted suicide. Where Lambert took it later was bad, but it had to be done to show the Divine and the rest of the observers just how evil the templars had become.
Strenuously disagree. The Divine was already willing to listen to the grievences of the mages. What Adrian did sabotaged any chance that she could intervene on their behalf and finding any kind of peaceful resolution.
Thrask was naive idiot and he paid price for being one better be paranoid and safe than trusting and dead... haha pretty much thrask sums up what are consequences of trusting mages.Lambert knew it when others around like divine don't.
That it happened was unfortunate, but I'm not expecting Rhys to start liking her again.
I am interested in seeing them within DAI or the next game, since they are pretty much near the top of the "leadership" of the Mages.
Well, to me there are a lot of characters that are "sympathetic" even if they're still clearly villains or bad or otherwise problematic for Kirkwall. Even Meredith was kind of sympathetic for me in the very end, even though for most of the game she hadn't been. But I'm trying to think of mages or templars that I respected enough to consider a net force for good and can't think of any. Thrask was the closest and he bungled the hell out of that.
In the end, I thought Thrask was a fool. He made a lot of headway to get the mages and templars to join together, and he was absolutely right that Meredith was greatly overstepping her bounds as Knight-Commander, but from my perspective, once he orchestrated the kidnapping, all of that got thrown out the window, because I have a zero tolerance policy on such matters. What I've always wondered about that part of the story was that all of this was done behind Hawke's back, even if you've basically done as much as you can to help the mages.
Thrask was naive idiot and he paid price for being one better be paranoid and safe than trusting and dead... haha pretty much thrask sums up what are consequences of trusting mages.Lambert knew it when others around like divine don't.
I don't see Thrask as a naive idiot; I think he was a progressive leader who was needlessly killed because one of the insane and stupid mages killed him. Grace, who can turn against everyone even if the Champion protected the Starkhaven mages from the templars (which basically makes her angry at Hawke for helping her, since "plots that make sense" apparently aren't required for this narrative).
Thrask was naive idiot and he paid price for being one better be paranoid and safe than trusting and dead... haha pretty much thrask sums up what are consequences of trusting mages.Lambert knew it when others around like divine don't.
If only it were that simple.
Strenuously disagree. The Divine was already willing to listen to the grievences of the mages. What Adrian did sabotaged any chance that she could intervene on their behalf and finding any kind of peaceful resolution.
There was no peaceful resolution possible. Push had to come to shove at that point, because the templars were already unwilling to listen to any reason and were consolidating their power within the Chantry; the die had to be cast for the Divine, and time was not on the mages' side.
I am interested in seeing them within DAI or the next game, since they are pretty much near the top of the "leadership" of the Mages.
I'm fairly sure we won't, as Asunder's plot goes haywire if Wynne is dead, and I don't think Bioware wants to retcon that choice, so circumstances might be very different in some playthroughs.
I am interested in seeing them within DAI or the next game, since they are pretty much near the top of the "leadership" of the Mages.
I am really interested in meeting them all as well.
There was no peaceful resolution possible. Push had to come to shove at that point, because the templars were already unwilling to listen to any reason and were consolidating their power within the Chantry; the die had to be cast for the Divine, and time was not on the mages' side.
I'm fairly sure we won't, as Asunder's plot goes haywire if Wynne is dead, and I don't think Bioware wants to retcon that choice, so circumstances might be very different in some playthroughs.
A) When you have the most powerful political leader in Thedas willing to work with you to make changes, you don't throw a temper tantrum and throw that chance away.
I think some people are going to be dissapointed with some aspects of the game. Wynne living is Canon. Sure you may have killed her, guess what she got better. Some aspects are canon and will be in game one way or the other. Plus, I am sure that if you meet them, the subject of Wynne will never come up anyway.
Thrask proved exceedingly foolish in the end. It wasn't just trusting Grace. Based on the followers of his that we fight and Samson's comments and the what happened to his kidnapping victim, he was openly allying with blood mages and demon summoners. That's not only asking for trouble that's betraying the purpose of being a Templar. But while his methods were idiotic, his motives were in the right place. And he does see the problems with Meredith's policies more clearly than any other templar. He just became too focused on stopping her to the exclusion of all other duties.
In a sense, he's like the reverse-Meredith. A templar's dual role is to both guard and protect mages. And they each seemed to (mostly) forget to properly do half of their job.
I am really interested in meeting them all as well.
I am too, so I can guy Adrian for the lying manipulative bratty narrowminded self serving cod fish that she is.
Rhys I mostly like, though my Inquisitor would love to meet Evangeline.
A) When you have the most powerful political leader in Thedas willing to work with you to make changes, you don't throw a temper tantrum and throw that chance away.
When those changes are the epitome of "too little, too late," it seems perfectly reasonable.
I am too, so I can guy Adrian for the lying manipulative bratty narrowminded self serving cod fish that she is.
Rhys I mostly like, though my Inquisitor would love to meet Evangeline.
I don't want them to appear in part so that certain players can be denied any opportunity to do so with Adrian.
There was no peaceful resolution possible. Push had to come to shove at that point, because the templars were already unwilling to listen to any reason and were consolidating their power within the Chantry; the die had to be cast for the Divine, and time was not on the mages' side.
Actually, the Templars were losing power. Beatrix, the previous Divine was a senile puppet of the templars. Justina was much younger, sharper, and independant. She's determined to make up her own mind and wasn't afraid to shut Lambert down if need be. This was the Circle's big chance to make a play for greater independance and to have a more active role in the Chantry. And Adrian torpedoed it all by framing her old boyfriend for murder. (Didn't even have the guts to frame herself)
Adrian is exactly the sort of person to give mages a bad name. She doesn't even need blood magic or demons to do it either.
A) When you have the most powerful political leader in Thedas willing to work with you to make changes, you don't throw a temper tantrum and throw that chance away.
I don't think fighting for freedom after nearly a millennia of servitude is a 'tantrum'.
Also, Wynne living isn't canon; it's not imposed on the narratives where she died, which the developers have said. Asunder follows a specific canon, but not one that will be mandated for everyone (just like the comics, where Alistair is King). I think you're confusing Wynne for Leliana, and the developers said we would be provided with an explanation as to how she survived (for that scenario).
When those changes are the epitome of "too little, too late," it seems perfectly reasonable.
I don't want them to appear in part so that certain players can be denied any opportunity to do so with Adrian.
Too little too late is an extremely juvenille concept. If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is that too little too late doesn't exist. Unless I drop dead as I type this, nothing is too little too late.
I don't see Thrask as a naive idiot; I think he was a progressive leader who was needlessly killed because one of the insane and stupid mages killed him. Grace, who can turn against everyone even if the Champion protected the Starkhaven mages from the templars (which basically makes her angry at Hawke for helping her, since "plots that make sense" apparently aren't required for this narrative).
First from what i saw every experienced knows that they shouldn't trust mages he was naive well lets see him an idealist and in cynical world idealist is nothing more than naive fool.He dig own grave you can call templars fanatics because yeah it is true but that doesn't make them automatically wrong most of them despite being extremists is right being moderate doesn't always mean something good or stable as well compromise i think too many rpg painted middle path as best path...
If only it were that simple.
It would be if templars focused on 1 goal and make it properly instead on 2 and make that two aspect bad...
simple circle is half-measure neither it gives mages satisfaction (well i wouldn't be in their skin as well) and non-mage safety...
War is because simple solution is bad mages are unhappy because they don't have freedom because circles don't give them that and niether templars are who have to protect world when it comes about magic dangers.To get what one side want they need take what second want and middle road don't give anything everyone loses...
I don't think fighting for freedom after nearly a millennia of servitude is a 'tantrum'.
Also, Wynne living isn't canon; it's not imposed on the narratives where she died, which the developers have said. Asunder follows a specific canon, but not one that will be mandated for everyone (just like the comics, where Alistair is King). I think you're confusing Wynne for Leliana, and the developers said we would be provided with an explanation as to how she survived (for that scenario).
Wynne has come back to life once already at least in game? Is it beyond the realm of possiblity that said spirit brought her back after you kill her? And again as I said, I doubt Wynne being alive for Asunder is a key cog to the game events anyway.
Actually, the Templars were losing power. Beatrix, the previous Divine was a senile puppet of the templars. Justina was much younger, sharper, and independant. She's determined to make up her own mind and wasn't afraid to shut Lambert down if need be. This was the Circle's big chance to make a play for greater independance and to have a more active role in the Chantry. And Adrian torpedoed it all by framing her old boyfriend for murder. (Didn't even have the guts to frame herself)
Adrian is exactly the sort of person to give mages a bad name. She doesn't even need blood magic or demons to do it either.
And the templars were gearing up to fight her. They almost certainly tried to have her assassinated at one point, and Lambert was able to force her to deny many necessary concessions to the mages; she was wholly unable to shut down Lambert, despite him being her nominal subordinate. He had the same power encroachment issues as Meredith and much less insanity to get in the way. There's no realistic way peace could have been achieved at this time; sometimes there's no way to avoid bloodshed and it's best to just get it out of the way as soon as possible.
I don't think fighting for freedom after nearly a millennia of servitude is a 'tantrum'.
Also, Wynne living isn't canon; it's not imposed on the narratives where she died, which the developers have said. Asunder follows a specific canon, but not one that will be mandated for everyone (just like the comics, where Alistair is King). I think you're confusing Wynne for Leliana, and the developers said we would be provided with an explanation as to how she survived (for that scenario).
No, but framing your ex for murder to manipulate the situation and than also refusing to play ball when the divine is moving towards addressing issues is. Also, it hasn't been a millennia of servitude. All lore about the tower and its history indicates that the Templars/Mages had a very cooperative relationship until recently. Both in game lore, novels, and WoT indicate this.
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