8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I agree. Granted, it might come at a loss of Templar influence in Kirkwall (having a harder time justifying a presence without a Circle), but that's a sacrifice I'm fine with them making.

 

 

I also like the idea that Circles should be designed as, say, resembling university campus with strict boundaries, with lawns and open-air atriums and flowing water and other ease-inducing designs, rather than repurposed towers and actual jails.

Well, the Ferelden Circle did have yard time, but due to Ander's repeated escape attempts the mages got that privilege revoked.

[Xilizhra]

I agree. Granted, it might come at a loss of Templar influence in Kirkwall (having a harder time justifying a presence without a Circle), but that's a sacrifice I'm fine with them making.

 

 

I also like the idea that Circles should be designed as, say, resembling university campus with strict boundaries, with lawns and open-air atriums and flowing water and other ease-inducing designs, rather than repurposed towers and actual jails.

What's hilarious, when you think about it, is that even Tevinter didn't have its slaves actually live in the Gallows; it was just a processing station and prison for new arrivals to wear them down before being moved into the city itself. It doesn't seem surprising that, while the Veil issues are most to blame, living your whole life where the entire architectural style comes down to say (to quote Varric) "Well, ****," certainly doesn't help any mage's mental state.

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, the Ferelden Circle did have yard time, but due to Ander's repeated escape attempts the mages got that privilege revoked.

 

You know, I think I have two basic questions for people proposing their own alternatives to the Circle system:

 

'How would you prevent an effort to turn your system into a Tevinter mageocracy?'

 

and

 

'How would you handle someone like Anders?'

 

 

 

Cause, when you get down to it, Anders very much strikes me as the sort of person who would find something to rebel again. It doesn't matter how light you feel your restrictions are, it would be too much for someone like him who doesn't accept any such restrictions at all.

 

At which point, 'seven-time escapee and determined to bring you down' strikes me as a relevant thing to be concerned with enduring.

[Steelcan]

What's hilarious, when you think about it, is that even Tevinter didn't have its slaves actually live in the Gallows; it was just a processing station and prison for new arrivals to wear them down before being moved into the city itself. It doesn't seem surprising that, while the Veil issues are most to blame, living your whole life where the entire architectural style comes down to say (to quote Varric) "Well, ****," certainly doesn't help any mage's mental state.

Heavy handed symbolism is heavy handed

[Dean_the_Young]

What, you mean we're not supposed to be revolted at the appearance of abominations?

[renfrees]

I have to wonder - why was the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall in the first place? We have several examples in the game, that people connected to the Fade, can feel the thinness of the Veil here. It makes no sense, mages should have been forbidden to step into the city and its surroundings, not gathered and being driven mad.

[Steelcan]

I have to wonder - why was the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall in the first place? We have several examples in the game, that people connected to the Fade, can feel the thinness of the Veil here. It makes no sense, mages should have been forbidden to step into the city and its surroundings, not gathered and being driven mad.

 

because bad game's bad writing was very bad

[renfrees]

because bad game's bad writing was very bad

Well, i wouldn't say BAD, i did enjoy some parts of it, but it certainly had itchy loose ends. This and open usage of BM were the two most important for me.

[Steelcan]

Well, i wouldn't say BAD, i did enjoy some parts of it, but it certainly had itchy loose ends. This and open usage of BM are the two most important for me.

 

Well there's an understatement

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Well, i wouldn't say BAD, i did enjoy some parts of it, but it certainly had itchy loose ends. This and open usage of BM were the two most important for me.

 

 

Well there's an understatement

 

Don't worry. Anders has magic that can cure itchy things.

[renfrees]

Don't worry. Anders has magic that can cure itchy things.

Kinky! Too bad i killed him in almost all PTs.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

Don't worry. Anders has magic that can cure itchy things.

Kinky!

Well, Merrill had to get the idea of Anders possessing "dirty spells" from somewhere, right?

[Xilizhra]

You know, I think I have two basic questions for people proposing their own alternatives to the Circle system:

 

'How would you prevent an effort to turn your system into a Tevinter mageocracy?'

 

and

 

'How would you handle someone like Anders?'

 

 

 

Cause, when you get down to it, Anders very much strikes me as the sort of person who would find something to rebel again. It doesn't matter how light you feel your restrictions are, it would be too much for someone like him who doesn't accept any such restrictions at all.

 

At which point, 'seven-time escapee and determined to bring you down' strikes me as a relevant thing to be concerned with enduring.

Illegalization of slavery (which is the main problem; magocracy isn't inherently worse than any other form of government by birthright, which in Thedas is basically all of them) combined with the lack of governmental power that the Circles will have over other nations for the first question. For the second... do you mean Awakening Anders, or II Anders?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Illegalization of slavery (which is the main problem; magocracy isn't inherently worse than any other form of government by birthright, which in Thedas is basically all of them) combined with the lack of governmental power that the Circles will have over other nations for the first question. For the second... do you mean Awakening Anders, or II Anders?

They mean either Anders, since Anders kept trying to escape even before Awakening.

 

As for the counter to Mageocracy, that's a step.

[Xilizhra]

They mean either Anders, since Anders kept trying to escape even before Awakening.

 

As for the counter to Mageocracy, that's a step.

Well, turfing him out to the Wardens worked well enough until that one templar wormed his way in as a spy.

[The Baconer]

The nobility was a significant obstacle in the resolving of legitimate goals and targets- at the time of Act 1 it's an open secret that status can protect a mage from templars. Not empowering them and empowering yourself instead allows you to overcome such obstacles.

 

As were her own Templars, given the multiple cases of insubordination, and even occasionally coming to blows over their differing views. But I guess we shouldn't be alarmed by this. Leadership couldn't possibly have anything to do with this.

 

You (probably don't)

 

Top lel

 

(...)realize you're not actually making an argument of incompetence there, don't you? You're describing a bad situation (and making some assumptions in other cases), but not actually linking it to competence or incompetence. Competent people can be faced with bad situations- especially when outside factors are the most important in a context.

 

So at what point should we be complacent with excuses like "bad situation" before demanding inquiry? Should it be before or after the Grand Cleric is blown up by a known apostate who was allowed to operate?

 

Not sure why you say 'under her nose' when the game tells us that those Templars were being careful to cover up the truth. Or where you believe that mages can't be turned Tranquil after their horrowing, when we're told they can if conditions are met (namely punishment and First Enchanter approval).

 

"Sooo... what's up with all these dead Templars in the Chantry?"

 

We also know that the person in question was using the rite in situations where said conditions were not met.

 

The example being 'don't be Knight Commander when Tevinter and other actors try to instigate a mage rebellion'?

 

And here you've been accusing me of making assumptions.

 

 

[dragonflight288]

You know, I think I have two basic questions for people proposing their own alternatives to the Circle system:

 

'How would you prevent an effort to turn your system into a Tevinter mageocracy?'

 

and

 

'How would you handle someone like Anders?'

 

 

 

Cause, when you get down to it, Anders very much strikes me as the sort of person who would find something to rebel again. It doesn't matter how light you feel your restrictions are, it would be too much for someone like him who doesn't accept any such restrictions at all.

 

At which point, 'seven-time escapee and determined to bring you down' strikes me as a relevant thing to be concerned with enduring.

 

 

1. In order to keep free mages from making a tevinter magocracy? For one thing I'd keep the templars around and kill corrupt mages who use blood magic without templar supervision and kill every demon I came across who are not in the Fade. And even then I might just kill all the demons I can while in the Fade if I'm playing as a mage. 

 

There's a place for templars. Add in that the templars in Tevinter don't take lyrium and don't have the ability to negate magic kind of takes away the dampener on mages that everywhere else has. 

 

I'd also say mages can't inherit a title. I have no problems with them being involved in court. My mage warden is the Chancellor after all. But I'm not the king. My biggest issues with the circle is the lack of rights mages have like having families, not being allowed to get married unless they get very special permission and even then they aren't allowed to keep their children. 

 

I'd also require all mages to attend the Circle at least until they passed their Harrowing or some version thereof. And despite the fact that I find the Right of Tranquility absolutely abominable, the tranquil can handle lyrium far more safely than regular mages so they naturally are better suited for enchanting services, so I wouldn't get rid of it, but I would limit it to be used as punishment on blood mages and mages who abuse their power. I'm sort of like the Qunari in that I don't believe in wasting resources and people are resources, even if it isn't politically correct to think of them as such. 

 

Templars have a place in watching mages and looking for signs of corruption. They are trained for this and this is something that must be handled. I'd just reform their order so that they are held accountable and to higher standards. Templars won't become Seekers. Ever. You run the risk of Seekers trying to become more like templars and observe mages rather than be the templars internal affairs office and observe templars. The Seekers would be recruited largely from highly skilled city guards like Aveline, officers in the military, or talented individuals, and they won't be held accountable to the Chantry but to some politically neutral organization, say the Inquisition. Or at least maybe just a branch of the Inquisition that focuses on templars only, while other parts of the Inquisition focuses on other issues. 

 

2. How would I handle Anders? 

 

Well, first if he's running a free clinic in my city, I'd set him up in better accommodations and make sure he has everything he needs, supplies, personnel and so on to treat as many refugees as he can. If he's blowing up religious buildings, then I'd have him arrested, put in a very public trial, and have him either made tranquil or executed and make it very clear that he's the guilty party. Given his possession, it would likely be execution. The Circle would be on high alert and I'd probably have the Inquisition come in and run a search of it while the templars locked down facilities to keep civilians out of the circle until the whole mess was handled. Make sure there are no supporters, potential copy-cats or blood mages, etc. 

 

After the incident passes, the circle would go back to business as usual. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

1. In order to keep free mages from making a tevinter magocracy? For one thing I'd keep the templars around and kill corrupt mages who use blood magic without templar supervision and kill every demon I came across who are not in the Fade. And even then I might just kill all the demons I can while in the Fade if I'm playing as a mage. 

 

There's a place for templars. Add in that the templars in Tevinter don't take lyrium and don't have the ability to negate magic kind of takes away the dampener on mages that everywhere else has. 

 

I'd also say mages can't inherit a title. I have no problems with them being involved in court. My mage warden is the Chancellor after all. But I'm not the king. My biggest issues with the circle is the lack of rights mages have like having families, not being allowed to get married unless they get very special permission and even then they aren't allowed to keep their children. 

 

I'd also require all mages to attend the Circle at least until they passed their Harrowing or some version thereof. And despite the fact that I find the Right of Tranquility absolutely abominable, the tranquil can handle lyrium far more safely than regular mages so they naturally are better suited for enchanting services, so I wouldn't get rid of it, but I would limit it to be used as punishment on blood mages and mages who abuse their power. I'm sort of like the Qunari in that I don't believe in wasting resources and people are resources, even if it isn't politically correct to think of them as such. 

 

Templars have a place in watching mages and looking for signs of corruption. They are trained for this and this is something that must be handled. I'd just reform their order so that they are held accountable and to higher standards. Templars won't become Seekers. Ever. You run the risk of Seekers trying to become more like templars and observe mages rather than be the templars internal affairs office and observe templars. The Seekers would be recruited largely from highly skilled city guards like Aveline, officers in the military, or talented individuals, and they won't be held accountable to the Chantry but to some politically neutral organization, say the Inquisition. Or at least maybe just a branch of the Inquisition that focuses on templars only, while other parts of the Inquisition focuses on other issues. 

 

2. How would I handle Anders? 

 

Well, first if he's running a free clinic in my city, I'd set him up in better accommodations and make sure he has everything he needs, supplies, personnel and so on to treat as many refugees as he can. If he's blowing up religious buildings, then I'd have him arrested, put in a very public trial, and have him either made tranquil or executed and make it very clear that he's the guilty party. Given his possession, it would likely be execution. The Circle would be on high alert and I'd probably have the Inquisition come in and run a search of it while the templars locked down facilities to keep civilians out of the circle until the whole mess was handled. Make sure there are no supporters, potential copy-cats or blood mages, etc. 

 

After the incident passes, the circle would go back to business as usual. 

 

I like a lot of ideas in here. To add a couple more.

 

When a child is at the Circle, they should have permission to visit their family, though under Templar supervision, in the event of something important happening, like a parent dying or them getting a sibling.

 

Even Post-Harrowing mages I think should have a Templar check in on them on something like a weekly basis to make sure they are keeping their magic clean, similar to probation officers.

[Nightwriter]

I like many of those ideas. However these two:

 

I'd also say mages can't inherit a title. I have no problems with them being involved in court. My mage warden is the Chancellor after all. But I'm not the king. My biggest issues with the circle is the lack of rights mages have like having families, not being allowed to get married unless they get very special permission and even then they aren't allowed to keep their children. 

 

I'd also require all mages to attend the Circle at least until they passed their Harrowing or some version thereof. And despite the fact that I find the Right of Tranquility absolutely abominable, the tranquil can handle lyrium far more safely than regular mages so they naturally are better suited for enchanting services, so I wouldn't get rid of it, but I would limit it to be used as punishment on blood mages and mages who abuse their power. I'm sort of like the Qunari in that I don't believe in wasting resources and people are resources, even if it isn't politically correct to think of them as such. 

 

... Would probably still send some mages and mage supporters into shrieks of oppression. "A deserving mage has as much right to become a king as a non-mage" would be the cry, I imagine. And even in regard to more minor titles -- well, just imagine a mage who has to watch his noble father's lands get passed to a stranger or someone he dislikes just because he is a mage and his father's only child.

 

And mages with a zero-tolerance policy for the Rite of Tranquility will never go away.

[renfrees]

RoT is not always a punishment, some mages ask for it, being plagued by nightmares.

[Hellion Rex]

RoT is not always a punishment, some mages ask for it, being plagued by nightmares.

From Tranquility

 

"Orana was brought to the Circle of Magi in Kirkwall at the age of five. Her mentors had high hopes for the child, seeing her talent for magic. Unfortunately, the poor child was plagued by nightmares that only worsened after her move to the Gallows.

Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer.

Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied.

With her connection to the Fade severed, Orana was again able to sleep. Her health returned, and she was at peace with her decision. She continued her education at the Circle and excelled in enchanting and runecrafting.

Orana saw the Rite of Tranquility as a gift, although many mocked her for this view. Later in life, she created an amulet to remind her of the Rite. She named it Tranquility. The Tranquility Amulet soothes the mind and imparts a general sense of well-being to its wearer."

[The Baconer]

I'd also say mages can't inherit a title. I have no problems with them being involved in court. My mage warden is the Chancellor after all. But I'm not the king.

 

Does this mean, in your system, that they wouldn't be able to inherit a title through birth, but could still earn one on their own?

[Nightwriter]

Does this mean, in your system, that they wouldn't be able to inherit a title through birth, but could still earn one on their own?

 

That's how I took it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Well, turfing him out to the Wardens worked well enough until that one templar wormed his way in as a spy.

 

Yes, that bad templar.

It is his fault Anders got possessed and decided to kill everyone!!