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[EmissaryofLies]

I wonder why people think the mages are in a position to be making demands.

 

IIRC at the end of DA2 they were at best reeling from the attempted annulment and the rest of the Circles decided to separate in the events of Asunder.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but there hasn't been much in the way of actual campaigns or battles yet.  And when it comes to this the edge goes to the infinitely more prepared templars

 

Justinia, baby!

 

And if by some chance in hell that the templars "win", I wish the Chantry luck against the inevitable Qunari war.

 

I wonder if they'll find comfort in the Qun.

[Master Warder Z_]

Amusingly Meredith was more vile and destructive than any abomination we have seen. Wow you do a great job of convincing yourself. Because the only red templar we have seen was above any abomination. Imagine the rest of them we are going to meet.

 

Oh right, Because Uldred, Connor, Orsino and The Baroness weren't destructive. 

 

One destroyed a Circle, One destroyed a settlement, And one corrupted and ensnared an entire population in a blood magic ritual that rendered their spirits into the fade for a few decades and drained them like a hungry wretch.

 

 All Meredith did was fight for her cause.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The fact it there is no demon involved for one? 

That we know of. We don't know the origins of Red Lyrium yet. 

 

I would say Morrigan is far more powerful than Fiona as is Flemeth and possibly Anders and Wynne-though you discount them as abominations.  Heck even Merril is probably more powerful, Fiona is just a NPC she doesn't even rate party member hero status.

 

People who have adored her?  Her comrades in the grey wardens who you would hope would adore the person who heals them and fights and dies next to them, Maric-who is known to fall in love with every female elf he meets, and Adrian who is the last person I would call as a character witness.

 

Wynne doesn't like her, I don't think Rhys particularly cares for her-he certainly doesn't adore her, I don't think the Architect adored her, Genevieve definatley doesn't adore her.

Wait, a character has to be a party member to be considered powerful? 

[Divine Justinia V]

Oh right, Because Uldred, Connor, Orsino and The Baroness weren't destructive. 

 

One destroyed a Circle, One destroyed a settlement, And one corrupted and ensnared an entire population in a blood magic ritual that rendered their spirits into the fade for a few decades and drained them like a hungry wretch.

 

 All Meredith did was fight for her cause.

 

Trying to kill a pro-templar warrior Champion is hardly fighting for her cause.

[Steelcan]

Justinia, baby!

 

And if by some chance in hell that the templars "win", I wish the Chantry luck against the inevitable Qunari war.

 

I wonder if they'll find comfort in the Qun.

Justinia has lost control of the templars and with it most of her actual power.  She can't even keep order in the organizations supposedly under her control.

 

"by some chance in hell", how on earth are the disorganized, civilian, untrained, etc... mages going to go up against an actual military branch>

 

There will be mages after the revolt, those who decide that the Circle system is preferable to an early death

[wcholcombe]

Then all I can do is hope that this cannot be implemented in-game, as I believe the story should move on from that.

Sorry I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bath water when reforms will fix all the problems.

 

BTW, it is interesting that you don't want me limiting how you play your "blood mage' but you want to limit how I address the templar v mage issue.....

 

Anyway I hope my way is possible. It fixes the situation without having to create some new method to do it and eliminates what has been the primary problem on both sides- the extremists.

 

If you remove the pyscho blood mages quentin orsino et al from Kirkwall and the psycho abusive templars meredith et al from kirkwall, the circle in DA2 would have been a much less eventful place.

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, there's certainly something, given that it sings, speaks, and Meredith is heard talking to it.

 

According to the spirit Lyrium sings.

 

There is nothing to indicate that a higher strain wouldn't produce similar results, just that the frequency would be audible to non mages.

[The Elder King]

And you cannot prevent of these if your weak and ignorant. chantry and the templars love both. The fact is the templars have failed. thats why the inquisition exists.

The Inquisition seems to be founded for responding to the Veil tear, not the mage/templar/Chantry affair.

[Lulupab]

1. There is nothing stating she has cured herself of the taint, Many Gray Wardens lived long past the thirty years Alistair commented on which Gaider later stated was just a rough guess anyway that wasn't entirely accurate to begin with. So she is in all likelihood still tainted.

2. There is nothing suggesting that the Grand Enchanter is "by far the most powerful mage we have been introduced to" The title doesn't automatically indicate strength, Her loony fraternity probably just mind controlled the rest of the conclave into voting her in.

3.  Yet to commit anything immoral? What do you define as immorality? Do you think treason is immoral? Do you think picking a fight despite it not being the wishes of the majority of your peers to be immoral? Do you think forcing your own kind into a life or death situation for beliefs they don't share is immoral? She's an egomaniac more then a loon i grant you.

4. Gaider hasn't commented on many characters individually as being his favorite and i don't blame him.

 

1. Exact quote from Fiona herself "I might be the first Warden who does not have to go on the Calling." Notice that "might" is towards doubting being the first not being free of the taint. She has cured the taint but we don't know if she is the first. One thing is certain and she will never go to any calling.

 

2. We haven't met any stronger unpossessed mage, yet. The way The calling and Asunder describes her magic she is one of the strongest of not the strongest.

 

3. See? This is what I'm talking about. Many circles revolted before Fiona actually got the vote to separate. She is doing the majority want. Its as moral as it gets.

 

4. Which is why I said I an be wrong be the signs of author's favor are there unless inquisition changes that.

[wcholcombe]

That we know of. We don't know the origins of Red Lyrium yet. 

 

Wait, a character has to be a party member to be considered powerful? 

Thats a joke in reference to way RPGs work.  The party/heros are always more powerful than the NPCs. I guess I have read too much order of the stick.

[Master Warder Z_]

Trying to kill a pro-templar warrior Champion is hardly fighting for her cause.

 

Fair enough but by then she had degenerated to the point where i don't see that as a failure of in and of herself, when you combat Harvester do you think of what it used to be? The person or people it used to be?

 

Or do you fight it for what it is now?

 

My point is, Meredith until that idol fell into her hands was no monster, and i view the red templars the same way, Its a threat brought on by the situation, nothing more.

[Xilizhra]

Sorry I don't believe in throwing out the baby with the bath water when reforms will fix all the problems.

 

BTW, it is interesting that you don't want me limiting how you play your "blood mage' but you want to limit how I address the templar v mage issue.....

 

Anyway I hope my way is possible. It fixes the situation without having to create some new method to do it and eliminates what has been the primary problem on both sides- the extremists.

 

If you remove the pyscho blood mages quentin orsino et al from Kirkwall and the psycho abusive templars meredith et al from kirkwall, the circle in DA2 would have been a much less eventful place.

They're not comparable. You're screwing with mechanics, I'm worried about the story, because the plot can't diverge too much for things that matter.

 

I personally believe that the one solution that will fix everything to the best of its ability is for the Inquisition to take over the job of running the Circles, and how to proceed being up to you (with certain commonalities existing, of course).

[Divine Justinia V]

Fair enough but by then she had degenerated to the point where i don't see that as a failure of in and of herself, when you combat Harvester do you think of what it used to be? The person or people it used to be?

 

Or do you fight it for what it is now?

 

My point is, Meredith until that idol fell into her hands was no monster, and i view the red templars the same way, Its a threat brought on by the situation, nothing more.

 

I see your point, but Meredith was leading up to lunacy even before the idol was in her clutches. I think.

[Master Warder Z_]

1. Exact quote from Fiona herself "I might be the first Warden who does not have to go on the Calling." Notice that "might" is towards doubting being the first not being free of the taint. She has cured the taint but we don't know if she is the first. One thing is certain and she will never go to any calling.

 

2. We haven't met any stronger unpossessed mage, yet. The way The calling and Asunder describes her magic she is one of the strongest of not the strongest.

 

3. See? This is what I'm talking about. Many circles revolted before Fiona actually got the vote to separate. She is doing the majority want. Its as moral as it gets.

 

4. Which is why I said I an be wrong be the signs of author's favor are there unless inquisition changes that.

1. Assumption, and it could many things, she could have been planning to hang herself if her egomania wasn't satisfied.

2. I am of a mind with the Others, there have been many powerful mages presented, and her own skillset isn't very highlighted so again assumption.

3.  Only one notable rebellion occurred post kirkwall and it was put down fairly quickly. So again conjecture and debatable.

4. I doubt it will, Gaider doesn't really play favorites.

[Steelcan]

I'm still laughing at people who think that we will be able to 100% eradicate the templars or mages and *insert headcanon here*

 

Chances are the Mage/Templar issue will be one of many issues we have to deal with, and no final word on it will be given.  And honestly thats a good thing, the issue is pretty 'meh'

[Lulupab]

Oh right, Because Uldred, Connor, Orsino and The Baroness weren't destructive. 

 

One destroyed a Circle, One destroyed a settlement, And one corrupted and ensnared an entire population in a blood magic ritual that rendered their spirits into the fade for a few decades and drained them like a hungry wretch.

 

 All Meredith did was fight for her cause.

 

ROFL. Connor needed an army of death. Uldred needed dozens of more abominations and we don't know much about Baroness but she sure summoned many demons.

 

Meredith needed no help. It was all her. It was VERY AMUSING when she died in the very moment when she asked for help from maker. There, your help came. Death to end your insanity.

[Master Warder Z_]

I see your point, but Meredith was leading up to lunacy even before the idol was in her clutches. I think.

 

I don't know.

 

We only see a fraction of what supposedly occured in the circle in Kirwall, the rest was either told by Anders who obviously is biased or otherwise rumors or just we are told, Ultimately we must decide for ourselves if we buy into the hype of the circle or no.

 

It was stricter then most but that circle was corrupter then most by a large degree.

[Master Warder Z_]

ROFL. Connor needed an army of death. Uldred needed dozens of more abominations and we don't know much about Baroness but she sure summoned many demons.

 

Meredith needed no help. It was all her. It was VERY AMUSING when she died in the very moment when she asked for help from maker. There, your help came. Death to end your insanity.

 

It doesn't negate my point.

 

Those abominations did far more damage then Meredith ever did in her little rampage, In fact the only one harmed in said rampage ultimately was HER.

 

 In every other situation? Dozens if not hundreds of people died.

[Hellion Rex]

I don't know.

 

We only see a fraction of what supposedly occured in the circle in Kirwall, the rest was either told by Anders who obviously is biased or otherwise rumors or just we are told, Ultimately we must decide for ourselves if we buy into the hype of the circle or no.

 

It was stricter then most but that circle was corrupter then most by a large degree.

I actually agree. Heck, we even don't see Meredith until the end of Act 2, so I'm not entirely sure about what was true, and what was made up.

[Xilizhra]

It doesn't negate my point.

 

Those abominations did far more damage then Meredith ever did in her little rampage, In fact the only one harmed in said rampage ultimately was HER.

 

 In every other situation? Dozens if not hundreds of people died.

Meredith's rampage took place in the presence of the PC, who also took down every abomination without a problem.

[The Baconer]

Hardly, for one red Lyrium doesn't compare to demonic possession.

 

It's ultimately just a more refined, higher grade of Lyrium, it has degenerative effects though certainly, But it isn't the same as having your mind sundered by a soul sucking fade spirit either.

 

Exactly, but instead of soul-sucking fade spirits, your mind is sundered by malevolent strawberry rock candy.

[Master Warder Z_]

Exactly, but instead of soul-sucking fade spirits, your mind is sundered by malevolent strawberry rock candy.

 

Mmmm Strawberry! 

[EmissaryofLies]

I don't know.

 

We only see a fraction of what supposedly occured in the circle in Kirwall, the rest was either told by Anders who obviously is biased or otherwise rumors or just we are told, Ultimately we must decide for ourselves if we buy into the hype of the circle or no.

 

It was stricter then most but that circle was corrupter then most by a large degree.

 

I don't believe that. I keep hearing it and I keep playing Dragon Age II(don't judge me) and I've yet to see this corrupted circle.

Corrupted meaning irredeemable, meaning overrun with blood mages, meaning prime for the right of annulment. It isn't there. Even on that hellmouth, there's no evidence that suggests that Kirkwall's Circle was corrupted.

 

If you meant a handful of blood mages, according to the gameplay a few of them are there(Mages that are labeled as being from the Circle and using blood magic). But does that mean the entirety of the circle is 'corrupted'? I do not believe so.

[Lulupab]

1. Assumption, and it could many things, she could have been planning to hang herself if her egomania wasn't satisfied.

2. I am of a mind with the Others, there have been many powerful mages presented, and her own skillset isn't very highlighted so again assumption.

3.  Only one notable rebellion occurred post kirkwall and it was put down fairly quickly. So again conjecture and debatable.

4. I doubt it will, Gaider doesn't really play favorites.

 

1. Nope. She was no longer a grey warden, literally. So she joined the college of Enchanters. They have been never any grey wardens in the college.

 

2. Name a mage killing a brood mother on her own. Protagonist doesn't count ofc.

 

3. Very wrong. While Templar reinforcements arrived at Kirkwall to suppress further resistance, news from escaping mages of what had occurred spread to other Circles. Outraged that the templars of Kirkwall would invoke the Right of Annulment to justify the extermination of an entire Circle for the crimes of one apostate, some Circles revolted, while others were close to doing so. Only Dairsmuid circle was annulled. The other circles that revolted break free potentially meaning all Templars died in those circles.

[Master Warder Z_]

Meredith's rampage took place in the presence of the PC, who also took down every abomination without a problem.

 

And? When you compare destructiveness of Meredith to abominations as the Ander's Fan did you invite this cross examination.

 

And during it? The argument fell flat.

 

Body Count aside, all of those abominations inflicted far more damage as well.