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Uneven Presentation of the mage-templar conflict


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#3776
The Elder King

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Well it slightly favors the mages tbh hence the title of this thread.

The GI coverage didn't favour at all the mages. The PAX demo shown the RT attacking, not the templars.

So presumably they'll be working overtime to actually give said templars some sympathetic qualities out of thin air? Could be interesting, but we'll have to see.

You (as many others) don't think templars (even those at war) don't have sympathetic qualities. Bioware might not feel the same.

#3777
EmissaryofLies

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Well I was talking about a new nation where mages are royalty not tevinter.

 

Would love nothing more. Managing the amoral mages would be a top priority as would keeping the rest of Thedas off of "Not Tevinter's" back.



#3778
Divine Justinia V

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Well I was talking about a new nation where mages are royalty not tevinter.

 

Oh! Well in that case, that would amazing!

 

What annoys me about people who dislike Tevinter is how they always point out that it's mages take slaves, I don't think it matters if you're a mage or not, rather the kind of person you are. I'm sure there's many mages without slaves? Anyway, just thinking out loud.

 

But yeah, I love love loveeee Tevinter, down to their preference of the color black. :wub: so a new nation that resembled that but didn't have all the "evil" in it would be faaaaabulous.


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#3779
Hanako Ikezawa

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I think the templars are going to be split into 2 groups the one that supported lambert and went insane sniffing red lyrium and the templars that still support the divine.

I think lamberts red templars are just going to be enemies. The thing is while templar supporters are still saying tat mages are dangerous (they have a point) they never managed to convince me that the templars are not equally or even more dangerous then the mages. We have already seen thatt he templars can be easily corrupted with lyrium. now with the split from the chantry and deprived from their lyrium we can see how long these holy warriors stay holy.

I actually saw it as the Templars breaking into three factions, personally.

The ones who stayed with the Divine.

The ones who left but still maintain ethics.

The ones who left and disregard everything except their duty to kill all the mages and become the Red Templars.



#3780
Master Warder Z_

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It's been asked earlier in this thread what guarantee pro-mages can offer to prevent the rise of another Tevinter, or asked what we would do. 

 

So in a completely non-mocking question. For those who are pro-circle or pro-templar, say you can regulate Circles and mages as much as you want, what would you do to keep both the mages and non-mages safe? And how would you address the mages concerns about their lack of rights or lack of ability to have families? 

 

And how would you deal with Lambert or Meredith?

 
First off the Mages would be confined to the Circle until needed or requested by either the Chantry or local Monarchy, Trusted Senior Mages can assume places at Court; But ultimately their connection to the world would be limited to the interactions they had while out on Circle business.
 
No Property, Titles or Lands to be owned by Mages, Period, No exceptions, don’t care if their bastard son of a King. But in place of that, I would allow them revues’ to gathered by the various tranquil crafting halls and mage guilds to be divided up for circle usage, For facility and staff expansion.  How to address the rights issue? The Seeker Order would be permanently part of every Circle, There would be no unauthorized usage of circle talent or Templar activity,  Every single rite of Tranquility, Harrowing or what have you would as it was in the former circle would have to be approved first by the Grand Enchanter and acting Knight Commander.
 
Ultimately I would hope to level the position enough through small concessions such as these to make the Circle Bearable for the majority of Mages.
 
Oh and the Libertarian Fernernity is permanently disbanded.
 

Lambert would be appointed the head of the newly formed Templar order to guard over the reformed circle and Meredith would given the respect that position deserved in such a time, maybe a statue, unsure. If she was still alive, i would remove her from her position of Knight Commander of Kirkwall.



#3781
EmissaryofLies

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LOL

 

They're the Nwo!

With Red Templars as the Wolf Pack.



#3782
Master Warder Z_

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Oh! Well in that case, that would amazing!

 

What annoys me about people who dislike Tevinter is how they always point out that it's mages take slaves, I don't think it matters if you're a mage or not, rather the kind of person you are. I'm sure there's many mages without slaves? Anyway, just thinking out loud.

 

But yeah, I love love loveeee Tevinter, down to their preference of the color black. :wub: so a new nation that resembled that but didn't have all the "evil" in it would be faaaaabulous.

 

O_o So giving absolute power to Mages wouldn't result in mass enslavement? 

 

How does that work?



#3783
dragonflight288

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O_o So giving absolute power to Mages wouldn't result in mass enslavement? 

 

How does that work?

 

The same way giving absolute power to any other group wouldn't result in it.  :P


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#3784
Veruin

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O_o So giving absolute power to Mages wouldn't result in mass enslavement? 

 

How does that work?

By the magic of a world ruled by good intentions, raining glitter, and lollipops.



#3785
Hanako Ikezawa

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Oh! Well in that case, that would amazing!

 

What annoys me about people who dislike Tevinter is how they always point out that it's mages take slaves, I don't think it matters if you're a mage or not, rather the kind of person you are. I'm sure there's many mages without slaves? Anyway, just thinking out loud.

 

But yeah, I love love loveeee Tevinter, down to their preference of the color black. :wub: so a new nation that resembled that but didn't have all the "evil" in it would be faaaaabulous.

Yeah. I think the enslavement to quote Anders "has more to do with being a magister than a mage." For example, Orlais nobility owns slaves, and they aren't mages. 


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#3786
Master Warder Z_

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You (as many others) don't think templars (even those at war) don't have sympathetic qualities. Bioware might not feel the same.

 

Bioware has been pretty Adamant on giving both factions their reasoning for this war, I doubt that would change overnight.



#3787
Master Warder Z_

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The same way giving absolute power to any other group wouldn't result in it.  :P

 

...It usually does though.

 

._.



#3788
Divine Justinia V

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O_o So giving absolute power to Mages wouldn't result in mass enslavement? 

 

How does that work?

 

I think it depends on their character. That's all I'm saying. It'd be amazing if almost every mage that was in power didn't get crazy power-hungry and enslave an entire race, but that did happen, I'm not saying it wouldn't.  It already did.

What I'm saying is, in current day Thedas, I don't think you just get a slave as you become a Magister like a welcome gift, I think it depends on the person in question.

 

edit: one could make the assumption that have a Tranquil mage is like owning a slave, ie: Meredith and whateverhernamewas.


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#3789
EmissaryofLies

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Yeah. I think the enslavement to quote Anders "has more to do with being a magister than a mage." For example, Orlais nobility owns slaves, and they aren't mages. 

 

I believe the proper term is "servant", if use a different word it changes the entire nature of the reality.



#3790
Divine Justinia V

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I believe the proper term is "servant", if use a different word it changes the entire nature of the reality.

 

Wait are you saying they have paid servants and not slaves? (sorry! i'm genuinely confused lol, hard to tell tones)


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#3791
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I'd say that a better hint for similarities between Orlais and Tevinter is that the chevaliers (well, Celenwas trying to change things though) have absolute power over the general population.

#3792
Hanako Ikezawa

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edit: one could make the assumption that have a Tranquil mage is like owning a slave, ie: Meredith and whateverhernamewas.

Elsa

 

 

I believe the proper term is "servant", if use a different word it changes the entire nature of the reality.

If you play as an Elven Warden, Leliana says that they own elven slaves.


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#3793
Lulupab

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Lambert is presumed dead because Cole approched him and said "look into my eyes".

 

Everyone else hearing that line from Cole is dead.



#3794
Divine Justinia V

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Elsa

 

 

If you play as an Elven Warden, Leliana says that they own elven slaves.

 

Also, wasn't Fiona a sex slave to a Noble in Orlais?


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#3795
Hanako Ikezawa

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Also, wasn't Fiona a sex slave to a Noble in Orlais?

Indeed she was. A child sex slave no less. Until she killed the monster.



#3796
EmissaryofLies

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Wait are you saying they have paid servants and not slaves? (sorry! i'm genuinely confused lol, hard to tell tones)

 

 

Both

 

But I was actually making a comparison to the alleged mage 'prisoners' that many hate to call what they are, slaves.


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#3797
durasteel

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...
Lambert would be appointed the head of the newly formed Templar order to guard over the reformed circle and Meredith would given the respect that position deserved in such a time, maybe a statue, unsure. If she was still alive, i would remove her from her position of Knight Commander of Kirkwall.

 

 

Meredith turned herself into a statue, so that's an easy one. Of course, if you want to break her into bits so that your fanatical fundamentalist jihadi red templars can get their fix and replace her with a more flattering likeness in (mundane) stone, I'm sure that there are many, many pigeons in Thedas who would love the opportunity to show her the respect she deserves.

 

Given that Lambert seems to have gotten exactly what he deserved from Cole and is therefore now dead, you'll probably have to find a new paranoid fanatic to head your dead-end thugs.



#3798
Divine Justinia V

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Indeed she was. A child sex slave no less. Until she killed the monster.

 

So it's safe to say there's more than "servants" in Orlais.


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#3799
TheKomandorShepard

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Having absolute powers always corrupts as fenris said mages have too much power already tevinter is best example how mages will end having freedom or just opportunity.

 

 

So it's safe to say there's more than "servants" in Orlais.

 

when it comes about slavery in orlais one noble as had slaves and tallis killed him.



#3800
Lulupab

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Having absolute powers always corrupts as fenris said mages have too much power already tevinter is best example how mages will end having freedom or just opportunity.

 

Like it has corrupted the nobility of Orlais and Templars.


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