8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Ruka13]

I'm married. Living under someone else's complete control is not entirely unfamiliar to me. I assure you it's better than being smashed with a rock.

 

Did you just compare marriage to mind control?

[Master Warder Z_]

Did you just compare marriage to mind control?

 

I believe he did.

[durasteel]

Did you just compare marriage to mind control?

 

They are not without similarities.

 

Anyone else who's married, tell me you've never found yourself agreeing with something you knew was wrong 5 minutes ago. Go ahead.

[Tric]

We have no specific info on abominations in Rivain that I'm aware of. So far, I don't think we've heard of a single specific casualty at the hands of a rogue seer or abomination over there. I am admitting that casualties are possible and, eventually, probably likely. I am also certain that the seers perform useful roles in the community, promoting life and quality of life.

 

I advocate freedom with the acceptance of risk. Nothing is certain, and I am not suggesting that X number of free mages are worth Y number of dead villagers. That would be revolting.

 

I'd rather not take risks or take as few as possible. Which isn't to say I don't support some reforms to the Circles as they are now.

Also, we have this tidbit of information regarding abominations in Rivain as far as I know:

 

 

LobselVith8 wrote...
But while we see that was done with the Andrastian societies, don't we see and read that there are alternatives to what the templars and Chantry are doing to mages - the nation of Rivain, the Dalish clans, the Chasind.

They exist without controlling mages. Meaning that if a mage turns into an abomination and causes destruction, or otherwise causes problems, they simply suffer and deal with it. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that not everyone is going to consider that a viable alternative.

LINK

 

 

Regarding mind control:

On a more serious note, I wouldn't want to be under the control over someone like Danarius or some people I've encountered on the street, I can tell you that.

 

[edit] Quote issues

Modifié par Tric, 07 mars 2014 - 12:23 .

[durasteel]

Don't know who you quoted above regarding Rivain.

[Tric]

Added a link, it was a post by Gaider. Quoting manually with this new system isn't as easy as with the other.

[Ruka13]

They are not without similarities.

 

Anyone else who's married, tell me you've never found yourself agreeing with something you knew was wrong 5 minutes ago. Go ahead.

 

Feeling the need to agree with something that is wrong is hardly comparable to being stripped of your will and forced to do whatever the person controlling you wants.

I'm pretty sure no one that's married would jump off a bridge or, let's say, blow up a building full of people if asked to without the general consensus being that either that person has very little regard for heir own self worth or they are so fearful of retaliation they can't oppose their significant other.

Either way one can not consider that a healthy relationship...

[durasteel]

Feeling the need to agree with something that is wrong is hardly comparable to being stripped of your will and forced to do whatever the person controlling you wants.

I'm pretty sure no one that's married would jump off a bridge or, let's say, blow up a building full of people if asked to without the general consensus being that either that person has very little regard for heir own self worth or they are so fearful of retaliation they can't oppose their significant other.

Either way one can not consider that a healthy relationship...

 

Well, at the moment she's making me go watch a movie with her. I sincerely hope that when I get back (assuming I survive when she's done with me) you have found your wayward sense of humor.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I can't help but think that under certain circumstances the Knight-Commander should be able to overrule that.

The only way it appears a Knight-Commander can directly overrule a First Enchanter, is by dangling the Right of Annulment over the First Enchanter's head. Still this would all depend on the nature of the search, the severity of the issue at hand, and the Grand Cleric's opinion on the matter.

[renfrees]

Well, at the moment she's making me go watch a movie with her. I sincerely hope that when I get back (assuming I survive when she's done with me) you have found your wayward sense of humor.

Hah, freedom is a choice of chains?

 

But you still cannot compare, because in your case you chose the chains you wear, whereas in case of mind control you aren't given a choice.

[The Baconer]

The only way it appears a Knight-Commander can directly overrule a First Enchanter, is by dangling the Right of Annulment over the First Enchanter's head. Still this would all depend on the nature of the search, the severity of the issue at hand, and the Grand Cleric's opinion on the matter.

 

Meredith could have absolutely gone over their heads and conducted the search anyway. Kirkwall was already known to be in a state of emergency (the Divine was afraid of it "falling to magic") so I doubt there would have been much in the way of Chantry reprisal, especially if the search uncovered evidence of corruption.

[Master Warder Z_]

Meredith could have absolutely gone over their heads and conducted the search anyway. Kirkwall was already known to be in a state of emergency (the Divine was afraid of it "falling to magic") so I doubt there would have been much in the way of Chantry reprisal, especially if the search uncovered evidence of corruption.

 

You couldn't sneeze in Kirkwall with out uncovering a blood mage, i have no doubt that search would have revealed much had it actually occurred.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Meredith could have absolutely gone over their heads and conducted the search anyway. Kirkwall was already known to be in a state of emergency (the Divine was afraid of it "falling to magic") so I doubt there would have been much in the way of Chantry reprisal, especially if the search uncovered evidence of corruption.

Not legally, no. Had the search uncovered evidence of corruption (admitedly hihgly likely) then Meredith might have been vindicated in her actions, but they would still have been illegal.

[dragonflight288]

You couldn't sneeze in Kirkwall with out uncovering a blood mage, i have no doubt that search would have revealed much had it actually occurred.

 

You couldn't do that in Act 3, you know, three years after Meredith assumed complete control of the government and the day to day lives of not only mages but many non-mages by being the defacto Viscount.

 

In Acts 2 and 1, there is no blood mage problem. You face 7 confirmed blood mages tops over the course of 5-7 years before Act 3. 

 

It may be nothing, but the sudden increase in blood mages happening at the same time as the sudden increase in templar authority cannot be discounted.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There are records of Blood Mages in Kirkwall from LONG before Meredith ever even became Knight-Commander. But yes, Meredith was highly succesful in stamping out the Mage Underground, and Anders does comment that whoever was left of it, besides himself, had turned to blood magic out of desperation. So what? Is it okay for criminals to purchase automatic weapons to better combat the police, just because the police has been waging a succesful campaign against them or something? What EXACTLY justfies an illegal mage's use of illegal magic?

[The Baconer]

Not legally, no. Had the search uncovered evidence of corruption (admitedly hihgly likely) then Meredith might have been vindicated in her actions, but they would still have been illegal.

 

I'm not arguing whether it would have been legal, because whether it is or isn't is irrelevant. She could have done the search whenever she wanted, and given the context of the situation, likely could have gotten off scott-free even if she didn't find evidence.

 

Even if, by some chance, she were punished despite finding evidence of corruption in the Circle, aren't the lives of Kirkwall's inhabitants more important than her position as Knight Commander?

[BlueMagitek]

So why are people arguing what Act 3 Meredith did?  "She was likely influenced by the red lyrium and was not in a sane state" is the answer to most of those questions.

[Divine Justinia V]

You couldn't do that in Act 3, you know, three years after Meredith assumed complete control of the government and the day to day lives of not only mages but many non-mages by being the defacto Viscount.

 

In Acts 2 and 1, there is no blood mage problem. You face 7 confirmed blood mages tops over the course of 5-7 years before Act 3. 

 

It may be nothing, but the sudden increase in blood mages happening at the same time as the sudden increase in templar authority cannot be discounted.

 

Very good point!

[EmissaryofLies]

It is not simply because the law is heavily corruptible and can be inherently corrupted(the war on drugs), but that it attempts to hide behind what can be a sanctimonius felonius moral imperative. It is dishonest in a way. What of Ser Mettin in DA II who was all too eager to finish off the fleeing mage underground and their families on Sundermount? With only one mage resorting to blood magic as a last resort to protect his people and the civilians with him. Not to mention Ser Agatha moving in to protect the mundanes from the 'law'. I refer to an Act III quest that's picked up in the hanged man, if you are unfamiliar.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It is not simply because the law is heavily corruptible and can be inherently corrupted(the war on drugs), but that it attempts to hide behind what can be a sanctimonius felonius moral imperative. It is dishonest in a way. What of Ser Mettin in DA II who was all too eager to finish off the fleeing mage underground and their families on Sundermount? With only one mage resorting to blood magic as a last resort to protect his people and the civilians with him. Not to mention Ser Agatha moving in to protect the mundanes from the 'law'. I refer to an Act III quest that's picked up in the hanged man, if you are unfamiliar.

Ah, Ser Agatha. She is one of the good ones.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ah, Ser Agatha. She is one of the good ones.

 

Compassion is a weakness that God must not have!

 

His justice must be brutal and unflinching!

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Compassion is a weakness that God must not have!

 

His justice must be brutal and unflinching!

And she was...to those who were guilty.

[Master Warder Z_]

And she was...to those who were guilty.

 

Those Harboring Blood mages and apostates aren't guilty?

 

 

Mettin may have been zealous but he wasn't wrong in doing his duty.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So it is fully acceptable for criminals to use fully automatic weaponry to "defend themselves"... Good to know!

[Divine Justinia V]

Those Harboring Blood mages and apostates aren't guilty?

 

 

Mettin may have been zealous but he wasn't wrong in doing his duty.

 

Some families harbored their loved ones because of the way they were being treated at the Circle. So, maybe by law they were guilty, but completely justified. One just gave her sister a meal and then sent her on her way. She should be killed for that?