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[EmperorSahlertz]

Think about it again.

What a real world organization had authority to do with heretics and arbitrary witches has ZERO relevance for Thedas.

[dragonflight288]

Magistrate was busy hiding the bodies of city elf women his son was killing.

 

Seven years prior. Not a valid excuse. Try again. Also, if you're willing to try, explain why templars have any business trying to remove the Guard Captain and take over enforcing laws in the city when their responsibility is strictly mages and the Gallows. 

 

EDIT: Really big change from Act 2, where Aveline goes "you'd think I could requisition a templar or something. But no, that would be demeaning."

 

Strange how they are suddenly interested in guard duty if they're the ones in charge.

Modifié par dragonflight288, 07 mars 2014 - 07:31 .

[The Elder King]

Real life inquisition also had a jurisdiction over heretics, "witches" etc., but executions were carried out by secular authorities.

Point being? The templars (or the Inquisition in Thedas) aren't the Inquisiton in the real world. Thedas isn't our world.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

There are many just as if not more skilled out in Thedas.

 

Granted the number isn't massive or anything but there generally are more then just a handful of elite combatants in the world at a given time.

Cassandra Pentaghast immediately springs to mind. In her movie, look at all she was able to do. And that was as a teenager. But I guarantee that she will not be as skilled as the Inquisitor solely to make the Inquisitor seem superior.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Can anyone tell me what's so bad about blood magic?

 

I mean, I don't want to be mind controlled, but I rather have that then to be frozen solid then smashed into tiny bits by a flying rock. I know the Chantry preaches some crap about a greater risk of possession, but that seems to be false. Everything negative about blood magic in World of Thedas is presented as a rumor: 'Some people say it's really bad.'

 

 What we've experienced of blood magic as the Warden or Hawke has been generally positive, hasn't it?

 

If you can't see the dangers of blood magic, then you are blind. With blood magic, the final sanctity and refuge of people - their mind - is gone.

 

A mage can kill you with ice or a fireball. But dead is dead, a sword can also kill you.

However, mind control opens horrible, twisted possibilities that humans WILL persue.

 

Becoming a total slave, without even a possibiltiy to resist the most henious of commands? The mage can force you to take part in orgies, to kill your own loved ones or do other deeds. Mind controls also endangers any form of governance or oversight, as it enables a mage to take control.

King, count, local judge or guard? Doesn't matter. They are your puppets.

 

Also, blood magic become more powerful with suffering and relies on sucking the very life force out of someone.

 

So no, not rumors.

and Hawke and the Warden are super-special snowflakes, thus do not count.

 

Oh, let us not forget that blood mage that tried to mind-control Hawke.

[Lotion Soronarr]

This also brings up the fact that there were mages long before there was a Chantry and obviously life went on beforehand. The Circle doesn't exist to protect people from the dangers of abominations, it exists merely as a way to make sure there can never be another Tevinter again. 

 

Stupid argument.

 

You are saying that because humanity survived before the Circle, that Circles are unnecessary. This postulates only 2 kinds of danger - none and total apocalypse level. Nothing in between.

 

You know what else humantiy survived?

The black plague. Deseases. Famine. Flash floods. Volcanoes. Tsunamies. Avalanches. Fires. World Wars.

 

I guess none of those are a concern because"humanity survived", thus, trying to stop them is unnecessary?
 

[Lotion Soronarr]

Going back to Ser Metten and his death squad. 

 

To all people who felt he was justified, let me ask you this. Since templar authority is over mages and not over mundanes, why wasn't the magistrate, and we know there is one as there's a quest for him in Act 1, involved in the mundanes? If they had committed any crimes, why wasn't he involved? And why could the templars be judge, jury and execution for mundanes without him?

 

I was under impression that the templars juridistiction is on magical matters.

Hence, people helping mage fugitives would fall under that.
 

 

 

 

Aren't skeletons really nothing more than spirits possessing the dead? Technically an skeleton can be more powerful than an abomination based on the demon possessing the corpse. Heck, the school of spirit in Origins is all about the study of the Fade and spirits according to the codex, and one if its best spells is "Animate Dead."

 

Bloody unlikely.

Abominations are the top of the foodchain, they have the power of a mage+ demon.

 

 

 

 

But... this is not actually true, because the PC actually does accomplish everything in-game, in lore as well. The Hero of Ferelden did beat the Blight, Hawke did bum around Kirkwall doing stuff and ultimately defeated Meredith. All of that does happen.

 

Specific events are a lore fact, but HOW they come about is not.

In other words, I doubt it's part of the lore that Hawke/Warden fought a dragon 1 on 1, survived being munched on 10 times and killed it by stabbing it in the leg repeatedly.

 

PC has character and plot shields the size of a death star.

Gameplay balance dictates that he MUST be able to beat anything he comes across. It doesn't have to make sense.

 

If the game allows me to run around naked and punch/wrestle a spiky iron golem to death, that doesn't make it canonical.

 

 

**

 

what Bio needs to do is to make sure every fight against abominations/dragons involves a LOT of outside help (armies) or tricks/traps/mcguffins.

[renfrees]

Stupid argument.

 

You are saying that because humanity survived before the Circle, that Circles are unnecessary. This postulates only 2 kinds of danger - none and total apocalypse level. Nothing in between.

 

You know what else humantiy survived?

The black plague. Deseases. Famine. Flash floods. Volcanoes. Tsunamies. Avalanches. Fires. World Wars.

 

I guess none of those are a concern because"humanity survived", thus, trying to stop them is unnecessary?
 

Humanity is fertile. It breeds faster than God tries to kill it.

 

Cynical way i know, i'm sorry.

[durasteel]

What EXACTLY justfies an illegal mage's use of illegal magic?

 

When it is against the law for you to simply exist, you don't give a rat's ass what's illegal.

[durasteel]

You have your justice and i have mine.

 

[durasteel]

Those seeking to undermine the efforts at containing the threat of magic are doing something that can brook no temperance nor mercy.

 

Death is the only suitable punishment, People like that must be killed else they will merely become a problem later.

 

Come at me, bro!

 

Cullen stated pointedly in that scenario that had Bethany not voluntarily came to the circle that situation would have been entirely different.

 

Entirely different, in this case, meaning there would have been many more dead templars, much earlier in the story.

[EmperorSahlertz]

When it is against the law for you to simply exist, you don't give a rat's ass what's illegal.

Being a mage is not illegal. Being outside of Circle juridstiction as a mage is illegal.

[durasteel]

If you can't see the dangers of blood magic, then you are blind. With blood magic, the final sanctity and refuge of people - their mind - is gone.

 

A mage can kill you with ice or a fireball. But dead is dead, a sword can also kill you.

However, mind control opens horrible, twisted possibilities that humans WILL persue.

 

Becoming a total slave, without even a possibiltiy to resist the most henious of commands? The mage can force you to take part in orgies, to kill your own loved ones or do other deeds. Mind controls also endangers any form of governance or oversight, as it enables a mage to take control.

King, count, local judge or guard? Doesn't matter. They are your puppets.

 

Also, blood magic become more powerful with suffering and relies on sucking the very life force out of someone.

 

So no, not rumors.

and Hawke and the Warden are super-special snowflakes, thus do not count.

 

Oh, let us not forget that blood mage that tried to mind-control Hawke.

 

You can't say that the Warden and Hawke are special snowflakes, then immediately turn around and use what happens to one of them as an example.

 

So, to clarify: You would rather be killed outright than to be mind-controlled and forced to participate in an orgy. Is that right? I find that difficult to believe.

 

There are a lot of people who can be compelled to do a lot of things by holding a sword to the neck of the people they care most about. I'm not defending mind control--anyone who tries it on my character will quickly reach the end of their participation in my game's story, if I have anything to say about it. However, I cannot wrap my mind around the idea that something which you have a chance at surviving basically intact is necessarily worse than being killed outright. I suppose I can see the potential, but nowhere near the certainty.

[durasteel]

Being a mage is not illegal. Being outside of Circle juridstiction as a mage is illegal.

 

It was a stupid religious law before, now it's a hollow and meaningless memory. That's beside the point, though, because you're only interested in laws that you agree with. If Ferelden kicked out the Templars, invalidated Chantry law, and freed all the mages by royal writ, how sympathetic would you be toward appeals to the authority of Ferelden's law? Laws change with time and geography. 

 

Also, considering that simply being a mage is enough to get you thrown into a prison camp, I'd say that it might as well be illegal. 

[EmperorSahlertz]

There is nothing religious about the Circles. The concept of the Circles are of Tevinter origin from long before Andraste was even born.

 

And if it was Ferelden law that mages were to be free, then that would be the law that had to be respected.Of course that would mean that the Circle in Ferelden would have to pack up shop and leave, along with ALL their magical lore and teachings, and Ferelden would have to start from scratch without aid from any nation.

 

And Circles are hardly prison camps. To call it a prison camp is about as inaccurate as calling it a boarding school. It is a ridiculous simplification, that serves only a pathetic attempt at spinning the situation.

[Hellion Rex]

There is nothing religious about the Circles. The concept of the Circles are of Tevinter origin from long before Andraste was even born.

 

And if it was Ferelden law that mages were to be free, then that would be the law that had to be respected.Of course that would mean that the Circle in Ferelden would have to pack up shop and leave, along with ALL their magical lore and teachings, and Ferelden would have to start from scratch without aid from any nation.

 

And Circles are hardly prison camps. To call it a prison camp is about as inaccurate as calling it a boarding school. It is a ridiculous simplification, that serves only a pathetic attempt at spinning the situation.

Doesn't matter what they were originally intended to be. They are now under the dominion of the White Chantry, therefore the placing the Circles under the umbrella of Andrastian religion. They aren't prison camps, for sure, but they are a part of the religion now.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There are Circles in Tevinter too you know, which functions the same way as the ones in the south. The southern Circles may be part of a religious institution but the Circles themselves serve no religious purpose.

[EmissaryofLies]

Lemme just go 'head sum this badboy up.

Mages bad. Templars good. Templars bad. Mages good.

Inquisition: Work together. Mages don't trust Templars. Templars don't trust mages. Even.

End of Inquisition: Cassandra and Head Mage In Charge make out to end said story arch forever.



That's is indeed 'what's good'.

[renfrees]

End of Inquisition: Cassandra and Head Mage In Charge make out to end said story arch forever.

...hands joined into the sunset.

[Xilizhra]

End of Inquisition: Cassandra and Head Mage In Charge make out to end said story arch forever.

So you'll end it with Cassandra and Fiona making out? I can get behind that.

[TK514]

So you'll end it with Cassandra and Fiona making out? I can get behind that.

It'll be Vivi or Rhys. Fiona's not hardcore enough for Adrian, so the latter is likely to get frustrated and impatient enough to off Fiona and Rhys will push her off a cliff with a murder knife in her forehead for it this time.

That'll leave Rhys, who is on the moderate side of Mage Freedom or Vivi, who is apparently on the moderate side of Mage Circles, and is a Companion to boot. Members of the PC's party always seem to be destined for greater things than other NPCs, for good or ill.

[Xilizhra]

It'll be Vivi or Rhys. Fiona's not hardcore enough for Adrian, so the latter is likely to get frustrated and impatient enough to off Fiona and Rhys will push her off a cliff with a murder knife in her forehead for it this time.

That'll leave Rhys, who is on the moderate side of Mage Freedom or Vivi, who is apparently on the moderate side of Mage Circles, and is a Companion to boot. Members of the PC's party always seem to be destined for greater things than other NPCs, for good or ill.

How about no. I'll keep Fiona, I think.

[Master Warder Z_]

Cassandra Pentaghast immediately springs to mind. In her movie, look at all she was able to do. And that was as a teenager. But I guarantee that she will not be as skilled as the Inquisitor solely to make the Inquisitor seem superior.

 

Lambert, Meredith, Loghain, Fiona, Melghen, Attius, Velt.

 

There have been many notable combatants within Thedas that have both the skill and experience to fight in the same league as the PC.

 

Generally however those in the same ball park tend to be able to be inferior to the PC merely because the plot demands said persons be able to fall at the hands of the PC.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lambert, Meredith, Loghain, Fiona, Melghen, Attius, Velt.

 

There have been many notable combatants within Thedas that have both the skill and experience to fight in the same league as the PC.

 

Generally however those in the same ball park tend to be able to be inferior to the PC merely because the plot demands said persons be able to fall at the hands of the PC.

Exactly. Loghain, a general for decades, can fall to a City Elf.

[TK514]

How about no. I'll keep Fiona, I think.

Just sayin'. Adrian isn't the patient type, and having murdered once and gotten away with it without losing anything she valued all that much, and getting everything she wanted from it, makes it that much more likely she'll turn to it again if she thinks things aren't proceeding to her satisfaction.

Fiona better step to the right tune or watch her back.