8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Vilegrim]

Master Warder Z wrote...

 Wasn't directed to you, Wasn't interested in your position of it.  (Espeically when its the same blantant pro mage tripe that you always reply with)

Won't be replying to it.

Be grateful i bother contiuning with the quote Prymid as long as i have.

yes beacuse the mages should lay down and be happy in slavery...Tell you what every templar has to be castrated and lobotomised, to make the situation comparable to the lives the mages in the circles lead.  Perfectly reasonable terms, if it is good enough for mages it's good enough for templars.

[The Hierophant]

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

[Master Warder Z_]

Vilegrim wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

 Wasn't directed to you, Wasn't interested in your position of it.  (Espeically when its the same blantant pro mage tripe that you always reply with)

Won't be replying to it.

Be grateful i bother contiuning with the quote Prymid as long as i have.

yes beacuse the mages should lay down and be happy in slavery...Tell you what every templar has to be castrated and lobotomised, to make the situation comparable to the lives the mages in the circles lead.  Perfectly reasonable terms, if it is good enough for mages it's good enough for templars.

Obviously Mages breed considering well...You know; Rhys and all.

._.

So Objection number one? False.

Objection two? I'd agrue that given what you do in a Labotomy is far worse then anything done by the Templars to mages, Tranqulity? Stripping away emotion, passion and fear but leaving the mind intact. Your demand for the templars to undergo it isn't anyway fair nor good enough.

Objection two?...Well i really don't need to say what i think of it do i?

It's not worth even commenting on really, You are comparing living within a guilded protected cage to having bits of brain matter removed with drills and clamps...its not what i'd consider even lucid thinking to be honest.

[Master Warder Z_]

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

He did that only to make sure the cure for tranquility was not found or known.  He even states this himself directly to Evangeline.

So please stop using the "Because the experiment went wrong" defence. It's not working.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 17 février 2014 - 05:49 .

[The Hierophant]

Vilegrim wrote...

yes beacuse the mages should lay down and be happy in slavery...

No. It's not slavery as the mages are not forced to work for the Chantry or Temps or without compensation.

Though quarantined prisoners? Sure.

[SgtSteel91]

Master Warder Z wrote...

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

Just because the method of getting the result was bad, the result is tainted?

The cure can be used for good. Like undoing illegal tranquils by the likes of Otto Alrik.

[Master Warder Z_]

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

Just because the method of getting the result was bad, the result is tainted?

The cure can be used for good. Like undoing illegal tranquils by the likes of Otto Alrik.

It undoes one of the few legitmant measures that can effectively silence mage talents short of death.

If that knowledge spreads, (and it would within the circle of that i have no doubt)the practice becomes worthless.

If the practice becomes worthless the only surefire other alternative is death.

Would you like to see execution served with infractions far more often in the circle?

It makes the entire balancing game needlessly more complicated.

[KaiserShep]

So basically, if a templar abuses his authority and gives a mage the brand for a minor infraction, despite passing their harrowing, then it's "lol, too bad sucker".

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

He did that only to make sure the cure for tranquility was not found or known.  He even states this himself directly to Evangeline.

So please stop using the "Because the experiment went wrong" defence. It's not working.

He didn't know the contents of the fortress that was obvious he merely knew what was told to him via the letter given to Wynne from the Divine.

So the defense of him merely targeting the cure falls flat on its face if you actually bother reading the book.

Furthermore he actually even concedes that the expriment may be continued in the future under templar supervision which he would hardly even state if he wasn't for that kind of proactive thinking, I admit the research bares interesting fruit myself but i just don't think it should be confined the to the mages.

If anything it should be the Templars seeking to refine the ritual, to find its faults and methods of undoing it, Point being Lambert clearly is even aware of what occurs at Adamant fortress until he was given a debrief.

And it works better then claiming things that occured in the book that don't if you go back and bother to reread it.

[Master Warder Z_]

KaiserShep wrote...

So basically, if a templar abuses his authority and gives a mage the brand for a minor infraction, despite passing their harrowing, then it's "lol, too bad sucker".

For the sake of Regional if not international stability?

Yes.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

Just because the method of getting the result was bad, the result is tainted?

The cure can be used for good. Like undoing illegal tranquils by the likes of Otto Alrik.

It undoes one of the few legitmant measures that can effectively silence mage talents short of death.

If that knowledge spreads, (and it would within the circle of that i have no doubt)the practice becomes worthless.

If the practice becomes worthless the only surefire other alternative is death.

Would you like to see execution served with infractions far more often in the circle?

It makes the entire balancing game needlessly more complicated.

The entire practice of the right of tranquilitiy is protect mages who can't hanld their power or request to have it. It sappose to be a choice of the mage to do it or applied to weak mages who can' t handle the magic. No one is going to undo that. Saying that it make tranquility pointless is a baseless arguement. The entire reason for finding the cure is becuae templars were using the right illegally

[KaiserShep]

Gotta love those holy orders.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

So basically, if a templar abuses his authority and gives a mage the brand for a minor infraction, despite passing their harrowing, then it's "lol, too bad sucker".

For the sake of Regional if not international stability?

Yes.

Wow..... I can't belevie I read that. And you don't see why the divine did what she did with think like that in the Templars?

[Master Warder Z_]

KaiserShep wrote...

Gotta love those holy orders.

The Mission statement is what drew me.

Not the diety  

But that said it does remind of the Teutonic's a bit.

I supposedly had a relative (extremely distant mind you) that rode with them in the Crusades.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

He did that only to make sure the cure for tranquility was not found or known.  He even states this himself directly to Evangeline.

So please stop using the "Because the experiment went wrong" defence. It's not working.

He didn't know the contents of the fortress that was obvious he merely knew what was told to him via the letter given to Wynne from the Divine.

So the defense of him merely targeting the cure falls flat on its face if you actually bother reading the book.

Furthermore he actually even concedes that the expriment may be continued in the future under templar supervision which he would hardly even state if he wasn't for that kind of proactive thinking, I admit the research bares interesting fruit myself but i just don't think it should be confined the to the mages.

If anything it should be the Templars seeking to refine the ritual, to find its faults and methods of undoing it, Point being Lambert clearly is even aware of what occurs at Adamant fortress until he was given a debrief.

And it works better then claiming things that occured in the book that don't if you go back and bother to reread it.

Read page 113 in the book. It clear his goal is  and does not want it to happen agein. He want to cover it up so Mage don't know tranquility can't be cure. Point blank.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 17 février 2014 - 06:04 .

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

So basically, if a templar abuses his authority and gives a mage the brand for a minor infraction, despite passing their harrowing, then it's "lol, too bad sucker".

For the sake of Regional if not international stability?

Yes.

Wow..... I can't belevie I read that. And you don't see why the divine did what she did with think like that in the Templars?

If one case in ten was abuse i'd take it, I never said anything about not discharging or reconditioning the Templar or Templars that did it.

But when you look at the balancing act that is managing dozens if not hundreds of lives in every Nation in white Thedas it becomes clear that minor corruption must be overlooked.

If soapscum is staining the tile ignore it.

Especially if when rooting around to remove it you fall through the floor and find extensive water damage going through out your home.

Point of fact you need a bit of "lol tranqulity" in the Templars.

You need to give them serious, pause and consideration just because if they act up, They might be punished by said templar.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

He did that only to make sure the cure for tranquility was not found or known.  He even states this himself directly to Evangeline.

So please stop using the "Because the experiment went wrong" defence. It's not working.

He didn't know the contents of the fortress that was obvious he merely knew what was told to him via the letter given to Wynne from the Divine.

So the defense of him merely targeting the cure falls flat on its face if you actually bother reading the book.

Furthermore he actually even concedes that the expriment may be continued in the future under templar supervision which he would hardly even state if he wasn't for that kind of proactive thinking, I admit the research bares interesting fruit myself but i just don't think it should be confined the to the mages.

If anything it should be the Templars seeking to refine the ritual, to find its faults and methods of undoing it, Point being Lambert clearly is even aware of what occurs at Adamant fortress until he was given a debrief.

And it works better then claiming things that occured in the book that don't if you go back and bother to reread it.

Read page 113 in the book. It clear his goal is  and does not want it to happen agein. He want to cover it up so Mage don't know tranquility can't be cure. Point blank.

Erm...what?

[KaiserShep]

"Minor corruption must be overlooked".

They should put that in the jacket of political science textbooks.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 février 2014 - 06:06 .

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

So basically, if a templar abuses his authority and gives a mage the brand for a minor infraction, despite passing their harrowing, then it's "lol, too bad sucker".

For the sake of Regional if not international stability?

Yes.

Wow..... I can't belevie I read that. And you don't see why the divine did what she did with think like that in the Templars?

If one case in ten was abuse i'd take it, I never said anything about not discharging or reconditioning the Templar or Templars that did it.

But when you look at the balancing act that is managing dozens if not hundreds of lives in every Nation in white Thedas it becomes clear that minor corruption must be overlooked.

If soapscum is staining the tile ignore it.

Especially if when rooting around to remove it you fall through the floor and find extensive water damage going through out your home.

Point of fact you need a bit of "lol tranqulity" in the Templars.

You need to give them serious, pause and consideration just because if they act up, They might be punished by said templar.

That a rediculuse notion being that it unnessiary. The point of the rite of tranquiliy is to help mages who can't handle the magical powers not to punish them. It is a kindness. The one who normally have it done are the ones that ask for it and the ones that truely need it. There is no danger of those being undone done.

If you need to full understand read this...http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Tranquility_(amulet)

[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">Orana was brought to the ] in [/color]Kirkwall[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)"> ].[/color]Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer.Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied.With her connection to the Fade severed, Orana was again able to sleep. Her health returned, and she was at peace with her decision. She continued her education at the Circle and excelled in enchanting and runecrafting.Orana saw the Rite of Tranquility as a gift, although many mocked her for this view. Later in life, she created an amulet to remind her of the Rite. She named it Tranquility. The Tranquility Amulet soothes the mind and imparts a general sense of well-being to its wearer.
—From Codex entry: Tranquility

^These are the people the rite of tranquility are for. No one is going to undo that.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 17 février 2014 - 06:12 .

[Master Warder Z_]

KaiserShep wrote...

"Minor corruption must be overlooked".

They should put that in the jacket of political science textbooks.

When it comes to cases such as this? Pretty much.

Bringing to light illegal tranqulities, or other frevor done by the Order, Or mass lynchings of mage born children or any other horrors commited in Thedas merely starts fires, Gives rallying cries and pointless attention to a relatively healthy whole.

I'd take it over the current crisis plaguing the world but that's just me.

And I took a course in Political Sceince back at Uni; Not exactly a thrilling program.

[KaiserShep]

I dunno. I thought it was fun, but maybe I'm a masochist.

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

He did that only to make sure the cure for tranquility was not found or known.  He even states this himself directly to Evangeline.

So please stop using the "Because the experiment went wrong" defence. It's not working.

He didn't know the contents of the fortress that was obvious he merely knew what was told to him via the letter given to Wynne from the Divine.

So the defense of him merely targeting the cure falls flat on its face if you actually bother reading the book.

Furthermore he actually even concedes that the expriment may be continued in the future under templar supervision which he would hardly even state if he wasn't for that kind of proactive thinking, I admit the research bares interesting fruit myself but i just don't think it should be confined the to the mages.

If anything it should be the Templars seeking to refine the ritual, to find its faults and methods of undoing it, Point being Lambert clearly is even aware of what occurs at Adamant fortress until he was given a debrief.

And it works better then claiming things that occured in the book that don't if you go back and bother to reread it.

Read page 113 in the book. It clear his goal is  and does not want it to happen agein. He want to cover it up so Mage don't know tranquility can't be cure. Point blank.

Erm...what?

Read page 113 of dragon age asunders. On that page it make it clear his intent to cover the cure of tranquility up and why. It's not because the experiment went fubar.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 17 février 2014 - 06:13 .

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

So basically, if a templar abuses his authority and gives a mage the brand for a minor infraction, despite passing their harrowing, then it's "lol, too bad sucker".

For the sake of Regional if not international stability?

Yes.

Wow..... I can't belevie I read that. And you don't see why the divine did what she did with think like that in the Templars?

If one case in ten was abuse i'd take it, I never said anything about not discharging or reconditioning the Templar or Templars that did it.

But when you look at the balancing act that is managing dozens if not hundreds of lives in every Nation in white Thedas it becomes clear that minor corruption must be overlooked.

If soapscum is staining the tile ignore it.

Especially if when rooting around to remove it you fall through the floor and find extensive water damage going through out your home.

Point of fact you need a bit of "lol tranqulity" in the Templars.

You need to give them serious, pause and consideration just because if they act up, They might be punished by said templar.

That a rediculuse notion being that it unnessiary. The point of the rite of tranquiliy is to help mages who can't handle the magical powers not to punish them. It is a kindness. The one who normally have it done are the ones that ask for it and the ones that truely need it. There is no danger of those being undone done.

If you need to full understand read this...http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Tranquility_(amulet)

[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">Orana was brought to the ] in [/color]Kirkwall[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)"> ].[/color]Orana became afraid of falling asleep. She would lie stiffly in bed, her eyes wide open. Without sleep, she grew thin and wan, and her studies began to suffer.Orana began to experience waking dreams. Shadows flitted in corners, and she swore she heard voices calling her name. She knew demons could take advantage of her vulnerable state, and at the tender age of eleven, she requested to be made Tranquil. The first enchanter complied.With her connection to the Fade severed, Orana was again able to sleep. Her health returned, and she was at peace with her decision. She continued her education at the Circle and excelled in enchanting and runecrafting.Orana saw the Rite of Tranquility as a gift, although many mocked her for this view. Later in life, she created an amulet to remind her of the Rite. She named it Tranquility. The Tranquility Amulet soothes the mind and imparts a general sense of well-being to its wearer.
—From Codex entry: Tranquility

Clearly you see only a single demension of the issue.

The rite is also a warning and threat, it it can be applied to magical criminals even those whom have passed a harrowing (Legally) if they are deemed a risk. Apostates if captured are often made tranquil, But no i am not afraid of the reversal i am merely aware of what happens when a weapon no longer strikes fear into people that are meant to be commanded by it.

The current situation sums that up nicely.

And if it also happens to fall into the possession of Mage criminals seeking to "free" other criminals, traitors and what have you just acceptable losses then? And reciting this codex doens't do much besides showing that occasionally a mage is actually self aware and intelligient enough to realize they posses weakeness as well.

Pity it seems a great majority don't possess such traits.

[Master Warder Z_]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

If Justinia did not go beyond her authority in regards to the experiment's concealment then what's the deal with the subterfuge in what looks like a checks and balance system between the two organizations?

Mind you this isn't justification for most of Lambert's actions like him ordering Evangeline to assassinate any witnesses or participants of the experiment.

That was one in the worst case scenario and given what occured at the fortress...can you really blame him for erring on the side of caution?

That knowledge resulted in near two hundred deaths if the book gave an accurate number of how many people were settled in the fortress.

Some knowledge is just better off buried and considering its only contained in Rhys head now? I personally wouldn't think much of killing him to have it be gone forever.

He did that only to make sure the cure for tranquility was not found or known.  He even states this himself directly to Evangeline.

So please stop using the "Because the experiment went wrong" defence. It's not working.

He didn't know the contents of the fortress that was obvious he merely knew what was told to him via the letter given to Wynne from the Divine.

So the defense of him merely targeting the cure falls flat on its face if you actually bother reading the book.

Furthermore he actually even concedes that the expriment may be continued in the future under templar supervision which he would hardly even state if he wasn't for that kind of proactive thinking, I admit the research bares interesting fruit myself but i just don't think it should be confined the to the mages.

If anything it should be the Templars seeking to refine the ritual, to find its faults and methods of undoing it, Point being Lambert clearly is even aware of what occurs at Adamant fortress until he was given a debrief.

And it works better then claiming things that occured in the book that don't if you go back and bother to reread it.

Read page 113 in the book. It clear his goal is  and does not want it to happen agein. He want to cover it up so Mage don't know tranquility can't be cure. Point blank.

Erm...what?

Read page 113 of dragon age asunders. On that page it make it clear his intent to cover the cure of tranquility up and why. It's not because the experiment went fubar.

Don't recall stating he ever claimed to stop them because the situation was screwed up by magic; I do however recall stating several times that searching the cure did result in those deaths though.

Because again all he knew of the attempt was what was conveyed in a letter by the Divine whom had merely stopped recieving reports.

The possibility of a cure however was enough to motivate him but it also doesn't magically negate what he said later in the novel either in which he wouldn't be opposed for the expriments continuing in more stable times under templar supervision.

So yeah three mages or a secret cure that can possibility threaten the stability of all 15 circles of white Thedas and plunge an already unstable world into war.

Hard choice.

And i was being entirely sacrastic.