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[Treacherous J Slither]

Yes and random Tveinter mages would be allowed near National Monarchies why exactly? People don't Like or Trust the Imperium remember?

 

And the Imperium doesn't have the infastructure anymore to support a continental Empire, they couldn't even handle a few barbarian hordes back when they had the largest army in history, you expect me to believe that weakened as they are now they could roll over Nevarra before Orlais stirred? While they are still fighting the Qunari over Sehron thus leaving their back flank exposed to a possible assault by the Oxmen?

 

And The Qunari are slowly killing the Imperium yes...Don't know exactly how i feel about that, don't like either faction.

 

 

Have a little imagination my friend. These Tevinter mages aren't going to appear as Tevinter mages obviously. They will be disguised of course and they will enthrall their way into the areas of leadership puppet by puppet. You can't tell if someone's a mage until they cast a spell and by then it may be too late.

 

Btw those few barbarian hordes had plenty of help as you well know. They'd have been crushed on their own.

[Grieving Natashina]

Hey, don't get me wrong, I love the Joker, but simply from my safe observation from the audience. If I was a denizen of Gotham or Metropolis, I'd cheer on Magog for blowing a hole in the Joker's chest in view of the public.

Don't worry, I hear you.  

 

 I still remember the first time I heard "Dancing Mad" and saw Kekfa in his angel form.  Good times.  The game was great to play and I still fire it up sometimes over 20 yrs later, but I like enjoying him safely from my couch.  I did cheer when I watched his death animation the first time, and knowing I'd saved that world from him.  He's an exciting villain, but someone that can safely stay to the realm of fiction.

[EmissaryofLies]

Chaotic evil is the nature of man in its purest form. The ID. It's what everyone needs to satisfy, luckily we have the superego as a balancer and an ego to bring both kids to the table to get them to shake hands and make up.
"Man is the cruelest animal".


Partial to Chaotic Neutral maself.

[dzs Angel]

When joker is chaotic evil it doesn't mean that chaotic evil is joker as i said sadly many peoples think that chaotic is crazy lunatic that kills everyone who sees when acting such way makes you chaotic evil sure it isn't only type of chaotic evil... 

 

Sarevok from baldurs gate is chaotic evil still he is excellent player in politics. 

 

Chaotic means that character values freedom or have chaotic impulses evil means that characters is self-serving or purposely hurts other peoples.
 

Same with lawful evil when it can be evil ruler that uses laws to benefit themselves ,extreme knight templar , or just ruthless bounty hunter that follows code of honor....

Finally, but in that case Iron Bull seems the logical choice for you.

[TheKomandorShepard]

This whole "let's just kill the mages and be done with it" aspect to this debate is getting funnier by the day for me.

 

As we all know, demons go after mages because they are more powerful.  That's why mages can be dangerous to the population.  However, if one kills all the mages, will the demons stop trying to possess people?  No, because they still want to be in the Material Plane, and they still seek power.  As has been proven by DA2, a demon will happily take a templar or just about anyone that is weak and/or willing to be taken.

 

So the next step would be slaughtering the Templars, right?  They would have the next highest level of power (given their lyrium use) and the next group most likely at risk of possessions.  Without the mages, the Templars would mostly fall apart and there would be a bunch of strung out confused addicts that would be easy pickings.

 

Say we kill off all the Templars.  Guess what?  You think the demons would just stop there?  No, they'd seek out the common folks, the average John or Jane Doe, and continue to attempt possession.   The average farmer's daughter, that isn't a mage or even has any mage blood, could be next.  So what, you kill of all them too?

 

This is why a permanent solution like just "kill all the mages" will never work.  The demons will not stop attempting possession and sowing chaos.  They resent mortals and will not stop until the world belongs to them.   Mage, templar...it makes little differenece.  Just different colored paving stones to power and one inch further to destroying/ruling the world.  

 

Lol you are ignoring reality and missing point just to support that killing mages is bad call...

 

1. abomnation is mage possessed by demon and those are most powerful kind of demons in real world thas 1 reason for demons to seek mage...

2.Only examples of possessed non-mages are caused by mages either by enforcing and summoning demon to possess templar like tarohne or demon was already summoned by mage demon can't possess non mage in the fade...

3.Most demons that are in thedas are by mages fault why let see how demon can end in thedas...

-)can possess mage (most common way for demons)

-)be summoned by mage alsto common

-)torned veil rarely reason why demon is around and is either caused by mages (very quickly) or by slaughter (slow way)

So removing mages we remove 2 ways for demons most often used by them and we reduce third reason for demons...

 

So yes without mages demonic influence in real world will drops significantly to minimum and let us avoid every future disaster caused by mages and we have a lot of that...

[EmissaryofLies]

This whole "let's just kill the mages and be done with it" aspect to this debate is getting funnier by the day for me.
 
As we all know, demons go after mages because they are more powerful.  That's why mages can be dangerous to the population.  However, if one kills all the mages, will the demons stop trying to possess people?  No, because they still want to be in the Material Plane, and they still seek power.  As has been proven by DA2, a demon will happily take a templar or just about anyone that is weak and/or willing to be taken.
 
So the next step would be slaughtering the Templars, right?  They would have the next highest level of power (given their lyrium use) and the next group most likely at risk of possessions.  Without the mages, the Templars would mostly fall apart and there would be a bunch of strung out confused addicts that would be easy pickings.
 
Say we kill off all the Templars.  Guess what?  You think the demons would just stop there?  No, they'd seek out the common folks, the average John or Jane Doe, and continue to attempt possession.   The average farmer's daughter, that isn't a mage or even has any mage blood, could be next.  So what, you kill of all them too?
 
This is why a permanent solution like just "kill all the mages" will never work.  The demons will not stop attempting possession and sowing chaos.  They resent mortals and will not stop until the world belongs to them.   Mage, templar...it makes little difference.  Just different colored paving stones to power and one inch further to destroying/ruling the world.

Not to mention those big bad Qunari who are just itching to put the Chantry in its place. We know the mages were their last resort i.e. their winning play the last time they went to war with the Qun.

Which would be so much more an appropriate ending for the benevolent Chantry.

[Lotion Soronarr]

In a short story that framed Anders involvement with the Grey Wardens as though a mage had never been a member of their organization, and then had the Wardens allow an obvious templar spy into their midst. It's also a tale where Anders became an invincible cannibal.

 

There's so much about that short story that simply makes no sense.

 

Obvious spy? That was only Anderses viewpoint, not fact.

And the Wardens take on everyone that's useful - which includes templars.

 

An ex-templar warden is no more strange than a mage warden.

 

 

 

 

Yes it justifies locking mages up a  for a thousand year and still doing it later. Meredith was an Icon of what the whole Templar order stands for. A mage or some mages commit a crime, all mages pay for that. Would it be the same if a templar committed such crime?

 

Strawman. The black city is not the reason mages are locked up - even tough it is a good example of the danger mages present.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well, at least until the Darkspawn showed up and there would be Hell on Thedas: A scorched barren planet under a blackened sky with two huge armies of horrific beings battling over the desiccated land.  Fun times.  

 

This is why a discussion about killing all of anyone, Mage, Templar, Chantry member or otherwise, is stupid in this setting.  If the citizens of Thedas waste their time trying to kill every other mortal that might have magic, the first part of my post has a very good chance of coming true.

[Master Warder Z_]

Heh, you're my polar opposite alignment wise, but I still think you're more rational and reasonable than someone that loves being CE.

 

Of course i am rationale, My entire mindset operates upon the dictate of me doing anything needed to maintain stability and order.

 

If i wasn't lucid i couldn't operate in said capacity.

[Lulupab]

Lol it makes sense now. If only you told me you were lawful evil... A chaotic good cannot be in one place with a lawful evil. Exact opposites.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Well, at least until the Darkspawn showed up and there would be Hell on Thedas: A scorched barren planet under a blackened sky with two huge armies of horrific beings battling over the desiccated land.  Fun times.  

 

This is why a discussion about killing all of anyone, Mage, Templar, Chantry member or otherwise, is stupid in this setting.  If the citizens of Thedas waste their time trying to kill every other mortal that might have magic, the first part of my post has a very good chance of coming true.

 

 

Darkspawn is sh** caused by mages and mages continue cause other sh*** that weakens societes wich not only means that countries are less prepared thanks to disasters caused by mages to fight big disaster caused by mages but also mages are blocking technological progress and technology is much more powerful than magic , stable and possible to control...

[Grieving Natashina]

Of course i am rationale, My entire mindset operates upon the dictate of me doing anything needed to maintain stability and order.

 

If i wasn't lucid i couldn't operate in said capacity.

Slightly off topic: I still play D&D in my mid-30s, when everyone's days off mesh.  I play a CG tiefling (3.5ed) that is a follower of Shaundakul.  A race that is prone to CN-CE, following a CN god as a CG tiefling.

 

My polar opposite in my setting was a LE follower of Bane Aasimar (angelic descent.)  Now that was an awesome and hard won battle.

 

Oops, my bad.  Robes and skirts, right.  Do they wear underwear beneath those things or was DA:A Anders right about that?

[Lotion Soronarr]

But you do recall the templar oder enlisting religious zealots and psychopath. And someone willing to grab power for himself, should be able to see the benefit in depriving Orlais of its (obvious) second army. If I recall correctly, you mentioned in a former thread : I would use the templars and get rid of them, once they stop being useful

 

No,I don't.

 

Like any military order, they look for matrial skill and obedience first.

If you wish to condemn them, then you must also condemn every military in the world too...and practicly every larger organization in existence.

[dzs Angel]

Of course i am rationale, My entire mindset operates upon the dictate of me doing anything needed to maintain stability and order.

 

If i wasn't lucid i couldn't operate in said capacity.

This one made me laugh.

[Grieving Natashina]

Darkspawn is sh** caused by mages and mages continue cause other sh*** that weakens societes wich not only means that countries are less prepared thanks to disasters caused by mages to fight big disaster caused by mages but also mages are blocking technological progress and technology is much more powerful than magic , stable and possible to control...

Funny, Qunari has mages alive and they progress with technology.  Brutally repress and control their mages, and not my path, but they've proven you can leave the mages alive and still progress with technology.

 

I think it's cute that you dismiss two key things about the darkspawn:

 

1)  They aren't just going to go away because mages are dead.  Neither is all magic, for that matter.  You can kill off every mage, but magic might return.  Without an understanding of the genetics of mages (something only Tevinter had once upon a time, and that was only with family trees.  Not an exact science.) you're just shooting blind.  There's chaotic evil and then there is being chaotic stupid.

 

2) The Veil is weakened by more than just magic.  As has been pointed out to you (and that you've shown willing ignorance about,) massive amounts of death and slaughter can weak the Veil a lot as well.  Your "solution" would do as much damage to the Veil and to the safety of everyone else as the mages do.  Since you claim to have the interest of the most common folk at heart, that would backfire.

 

You still haven't touched my post, by the way.  Do you advocate killing off Thedas?  By starting with the mages, that's exactly what you're wanting.  If that's the case, go find a mod or play a game that'll let you destroy the world.

 

Z and I almost never agree, but even his solutions have more long term merit.  We don't see eye to eye on the solutions, but he genuinely does have the interest of Thedas at heart.  He seeks to protect the common person of Thedas.  You don't, TKS.  You're in it for yourself.

 

All you're doing is saying, "Well, we don't need those pesky mortals around.  C'mon Demons!  It's nice and warm here.  Oh and you too Darkspawn!  Please, take our lands and blight our lives."  

[Treacherous J Slither]

They're not smart, though. That's why the empire that once covered most of Thedas can't even conquer an island. Tevinter isn't gaining power, it's declining. And I believe without a massive overhaul in the ways that they operate we'll probably see the Imperium become the city-state of Minrathous.

 

 

They can't conquer an island because the writers want it that way even though it doesn't make sense. I could come up with all sorts of ways that ruthless and powerful blood mages can take the island and eventually all of Thedas and I don't even write this stuff.

 

An empire doesn't become an empire because they're stupid.

[dzs Angel]

No,I don't.

 

Like any military order, they look for matrial skill and obedience first.

If you wish to condemn them, then you must also condemn every military in the world too...and practicly every larger organization in existence.

Depriving an enemy of half his army isn´t the same as condemning every army. I would need an army as well, wouldn´t I? I am against both empires, and kind of a live and let live guy, except for those who can´t abide by this philosophy and won´t stick to themselves. I have a neck of exterminating powerhungry and warmongering societies.

 

Edit: 

 

BTW Not every army is centered on obedience.

[Master Warder Z_]

Slightly off topic: I still play D&D in my mid-30s, when everyone's days off mesh.  I play a CG tiefling (3.5ed) that is a follower of Shaundakul.  A race that is prone to CN-CE, following a CN god as a CG tiefling.

 

My polar opposite in my setting was a LE follower of Bane Aasimar (angelic descent.)  Now that was an awesome and hard won battle.

 

Oops, my bad.  Robes and skirts, right.  Do they wear underwear beneath those things or was DA:A Anders right about that?

 

I haven't bothered with DnD (I was playing it when i was in my early to mid teens back when it was still a paper graph and dice game)in many years if i am being honest but that said i do have fond memories of it, crafting and building a character from the ground up.  My final Character of any note was a Seal Breaker Paladin who followed the Mandate of Wee Jas the Suel goddess of Magic, Death, Vanity, and Law. I ended up having quite a lot of fun with my LE character who followed a religion that while having LE tendencies was the bailiwick of Lawful Neutrals.

 

Even back in the day i favored a single good one handed weapon with the weight of a decent shield in the other, oh and of course heavy armor, not massive mind you but good enough to make attacking from the front an ill fated gesture unless if i rolled a 3 on perception. (Damn the Helm!)

 

...This forum needs a D&D thread.

[Master Warder Z_]

This one made me laugh.

 

How so?

[The Elder King]

They can't conquer an island because the writers want it that way even though it doesn't make sense. I could come up with all sorts of ways that ruthless and powerful blood mages can take the island and eventually all of Thedas and I don't even write this stuff.
 
An empire doesn't become an empire because they're stupid.

Sort of agree that they're not (entirely) stupid, but Following the voice of a 'god' to sacrifice thousands of slaves and 1/3 of their lyrium reserves in something they had no clue about doesn't strike me as brilliant.

[dzs Angel]

How so?

Don´t take this the wrong, I don´t want to offend you. But you do look like someone who is impressed by his own might. And it looks like you are having a hard time considering the worth of differing oppinions.

[Lotion Soronarr]

This whole "let's just kill the mages and be done with it" aspect to this debate is getting funnier by the day for me.

 

As we all know, demons go after mages because they are more powerful.  That's why mages can be dangerous to the population.  However, if one kills all the mages, will the demons stop trying to possess people?  No, because they still want to be in the Material Plane, and they still seek power.  As has been proven by DA2, a demon will happily take a templar or just about anyone that is weak and/or willing to be taken.

 

So the next step would be slaughtering the Templars, right?  They would have the next highest level of power (given their lyrium use) and the next group most likely at risk of possessions.  Without the mages, the Templars would mostly fall apart and there would be a bunch of strung out confused addicts that would be easy pickings.

 

Say we kill off all the Templars.  Guess what?  You think the demons would just stop there?  No, they'd seek out the common folks, the average John or Jane Doe, and continue to attempt possession.   The average farmer's daughter, that isn't a mage or even has any mage blood, could be next.  So what, you kill of all them too?

 

This is why a permanent solution like just "kill all the mages" will never work.  The demons will not stop attempting possession and sowing chaos.  They resent mortals and will not stop until the world belongs to them.   Mage, templar...it makes little difference.  Just different colored paving stones to power and one inch further to destroying/ruling the world.  

 

Except demons can't even see normal people - to them there is no difference between a mundane and a rock. Mages shine like beacons.

 

Also, they can't approach mundanes as easily as they can approach mages.

 

Finally, possession of a mundane results in a creature far weaker than an abomination.

 

 

So no. Not even remotely the same.
 

[dzs Angel]

Funny, Qunari has mages alive and they progress with technology.  Brutally repress and control their mages, and not my path, but they've proven you can leave the mages alive and still progress with technology.

 

I think it's cute that you dismiss two key things about the darkspawn:

 

1)  They aren't just going to go away because mages are dead.  Neither is all magic, for that matter.  You can kill off every mage, but magic might return.  Without an understanding of the genetics of mages (something only Tevinter had once upon a time, and that was only with family trees.  Not an exact science.) you're just shooting blind.  There's chaotic evil and then there is being chaotic stupid.

 

2) The Veil is weakened by more than just magic.  As has been pointed out to you (and that you've shown willing ignorance about,) massive amounts of death and slaughter can weak the Veil a lot as well.  Your "solution" would do as much damage to the Veil and to the safety of everyone else as the mages do.  Since you claim to have the interest of the most common folk at heart, that would backfire.

 

 

Amen

[Lotion Soronarr]

Depriving an enemy of half his army isn´t the same as condemning every army. I would need an army as well, wouldn´t I? I am against both empires, and kind of a live and let live guy, except for those who can´t abide by this philosophy and won´t stick to themselves. I have a neck of exterminating powerhungry and warmongering societies.

 

Edit: 

 

BTW Not every army is centered on obedience.

 

Then you know nothing on the real world.

 

Take a look at what kind of people ANY power structure or organization wants, how it trains them and you will see.

Even companies - who don't deal in warfare - value obedience.

[Grieving Natashina]

I haven't bothered with DnD (I was playing it when i was in my early to mid teens back when it was still a paper graph and dice game)in many years if i am being honest but that said i do have fond memories of it, crafting and building a character from the ground up.  My final Character of any note was a Seal Breaker Paladin who followed the Mandate of Wee Jas the Suel goddess of Magic, Death, Vanity, and Law. I ended up having quite a lot of fun with my LE character who followed a religion that while having LE tendencies was the bailiwick of Lawful Neutrals.

 

Even back in the day i favored a single good one handed weapon with the weight of a decent shield in the other, oh and of course heavy armor, not massive mind you but good enough to make attacking from the front an ill fated gesture unless if i rolled a 3 on perception. (Damn the Helm!)

 

...This forum needs a D&D thread.

Agreed.  I'm catching a nap soon, but let me know if you start one in the off topic thread.  I'll be happy to chat with you there.   Oh and all I play when I play D&D is pencil/paper with dice.  I have two sets.

 

Okay, back to the usual debate.