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[TheKomandorShepard]

Yet you keep using handfuls of mages, as well as codex and in-game resources, to justify why you want to kill all mages.    When, as several have pointed out, there isn't even that many blood mages in DA2 until things go to hell in Act 3.

 

So, I can't use an in-game reason to state that the Veil is torn by violence and bloodshed, but you can use mooks from the games to justify killing an entire group of people?  Sorry bud, it doesn't work that way.

 

yep i do... yeah not rly we have plenty blood mages and abomnations even in act 1...

 

Of course you can no one denies that non-mages can weaken the veil but now we have 1 example caused by non-mage and dozens if not hundreds of examples where demons were in thedas thanks to mages so yeah no one ever denied that demons will vanish entirely as lotion said killing mages will reduce it to tiny minimum...

 

 

You'll have to take into account, that no nation in Thedas wants to kill all mages, just control them and weed out the black sheeps. Not even Qunari, which would be relatively easy for them with all that certainty of their Qun. Mages are valuable, if dangerous resource. Nobody gets rid of the blackpowder because it explodes, they just take safety measures to use it.

 

Don't compare technology that is stable to mages that aren't blackpowder won't destroy city or create blight... And nope many folks would torn apart mages just listen guys talking about rumors in ferelden and their opinion toward mages... 

[Master Warder Z_]

Nope, Nope and Nope.

 

There is no proof that there are more abominations in Tevinter therefore its quite safe to assume the numbers of abominations appearing is even.

 

"There are indeed Imperial templars. Their primary role is to enforce magical law, and since they are part of the Chantry-- which is controlled by the Circle-- they are thus controlled by the mages. The majority of Imperial templars, however, lack the ability to counter magic. They are primarily soldiers."

 

 

As i said speculation, Mage dicatorship didn't magically change how the world works.

 

Possessions still occur, hence why Tranquility and Annulment are still in operation. Both of those things are confirmed to still take place, both by in game admission and WOT not discounting either.

 

And what does most infer? Majority, Just because some do not consume Lyrium does not infer that others do not which that quote also doesn't discount.

 

You being Pro notion of this being how the world should work doesn't infer that the system is in anyway shape or form superior.

[LobselVith8]

Sophia wasn't a person when it happened, she was a corpse. So functionally no different than a rock.

Living normal people don't take well to possession, as Tahrone makes clear.

Ordinary people can be possessed, as this is pointed out in the Magi Origin. Even Kitty (the possessed cat) was able to threaten possession of Wilhelm's granddaughter, who showed no signs of being a mage, and we don't know whether or not Sophia was alive or dead during her possession.

Tahrone is forcibly putting spirits/demons into people; it's entirely different than when the veil is thin, which doesn't necessitate a mage - simply a great deal of death.

[Master Warder Z_]

They do possess trees and the like.  Why not an average person?

 

An actually thoughtful notion.

 

If you look at the codex for said beings however you note that was done out of need rather then desire, Its much like a demon taking a tranquil or rock.

 

They don't emit the power said beings crave and thus they are secondary options, However it can occur it is just unlikely given the fascination with the taking of mages and the fact that the demon becomes more powerful with the mage then any other option.

[Lulupab]

As i said speculation, Mage dicatorship didn't magically change how the world works.

 

Possessions still occur, hence why Tranquility and Annulment are still in operation. Both of those things are confirmed to still take place, both by in game admission and WOT not discounting either.

 

And what does most infer? Majority, Just because some do not consume Lyrium does not infer that others do not which that quote also doesn't discount.

 

You being Pro notion of this being how the world should work doesn't infer that the system is in anyway shape or form superior.

 

If not superior then its on par. This clearly shows mages are more than capable of looking after themselves and Templars can be a police force not overlords with divine right over the mages since clearly its not the only solution and has already started a war. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Ordinary people can be possessed, as this is pointed out in the Magi Origin. Even Kitty (the possessed cat) was able to threaten possession of Wilhelm's granddaughter, who showed no signs of being a mage, and we don't know whether or not Sophia was alive or dead during her possession.

 

"Kitty" was just the avatar the demon took upon being sealed into the living world, It also a willing possession if you look back, both things should be taken into account.

[Master Warder Z_]

If not superior then its on par. This clearly shows mages are more than capable of looking after themselves and Templars can be a police force not overlords with divine right over the mages since clearly its not the only solution and has already started a war. 

 

Debatable considering you are trading one master for another.

 

That seems like personal taste to me then anything else, considering the Imperium system resulted in SEVERAL wars.

[renfrees]

If not superior then its on par. This clearly shows mages are more than capable of looking after themselves and Templars can be a police force not overlords with divine right over the mages since clearly its not the only solution and has already started a war. 

"The magisters do not hesitate to collar their own kind".

 

You really are the fan of Anders it seems. You'd prefer magical master over yourself just because he's a mage? It'd resonate better with your beliefs?

[Lulupab]

Debatable considering you are trading one master for another.

 

That seems like personal taste to me then anything else, considering the Imperium system resulted in SEVERAL wars.

 

The "wars" had nothing to with how circles work but it was about Magisters wanting more power since they have to compete for it, and its not a "war" per se. The last war tevinter had with anyone other than Qunari was like 400 years ago.

[Lulupab]

"The magisters do not hesitate to collar their own kind".

 

You really are the fan of Anders it seems. You'd prefer magical master over yourself just because he's a mage? It'd resonate better with your beliefs?

 

The mages are not locked up in Tevinter, they return to their homes. They have much more freedom and power as David Gaider mentioned. They are not "collared", they are forced to take necessary training. And they are forced by people who were forced before them by same people. Its a process even Magisters go though and once you are done with training you are a free man in tevinter.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Tevinter is a terrible place. It's absolutely the worst example to use if you're trying to prove that mages can police themselves. Fenris talks more than once about how mages who can't keep up with the ruthless powergrabs of rivals are enslaved.

[Lulupab]

Tevinter is a terrible place. It's absolutely the worst example to use if you're trying to prove that mages can police themselves.

 

Their so called crimes has to do with them being Tevinter not a mage. In matter of security and prevention of demonic possession they have been as successful if not more successful than the southern system. This was my point. Because Mages are still minority there and the majority who are mundanes took part in all of those acts you think makes Tevinter terrible. Its more about nationality than being a mage.

[LobselVith8]

"Kitty" was just the avatar the demon took upon being sealed into the living world, It also a willing possession if you look back, both things should be taken into account.

That is certainly possible, given Kitty's dialogue in the cellar. Still, ordinary people can be possessed.

[Master Warder Z_]

The "wars" had nothing to with how circles work but it was about Magisters wanting more power since they have to compete for it, and its not a "war" per se. The last war tevinter had with anyone other than Qunari was like 400 years ago.

 

It had everything to do with how magic was handled over there, The same conceited notion that they have natural right to rule that gave mages the brilliant idea to sit upon a god's throne.

 

Editing Chantry Doctrine was merely the by product of such school of thinking, it was the catalyst for war but not its source.

 

 

 

Their so called crimes has to do with them being Tevinter not a mage. In matter of security and prevention of demonic possession they have been as successful if not more successful than the southern system. This was my point. Because Mages are still minority there and the majority who are mundanes took part in all of those acts you think makes Tevinter terrible. Its more about nationality than being a mage.

It's just that despite being a minority Mages hold the entire system, The Senate, The Archon? All Mages, All the Lords? Mages? Noble Houses? Mages? The Entire system is the entire justification for why the circle exists in the first place. Domination through magic, I doubt bringing it to Thedas would result in a more stable future.

[Lulupab]

It had everything to do with how magic was handled over there, The same conceited notion that they have natural right to rule that gave mages the brilliant idea to sit upon a god's throne.

 

Editing Chantry Doctrine was merely the by product of such school of thinking, it was the catalyst for war but not its source.

 

Their so called crimes has to do with them being Tevinter not a mage. In matter of security and prevention of demonic possession they have been as successful if not more successful than the southern system. This was my point. Because Mages are still minority there and the majority who are mundanes took part in all of those acts you think makes Tevinter terrible. Its more about nationality than being a mage.

It's just that despite being a minority Mages hold the entire system, The Senate, The Archon? All Mages, All the Lords? Mages? Noble Houses? Mages? The Entire system is the entire justification for why the circle exists in the first place. Domination through magic, I doubt bringing it to Thedas would result in a more stable future.

 

It does prove that Templars shouldn't be given any more political power than a city guard. They are there to prevent and fix just like the city guards. They have no right, least of all a divine one over mages.

 

I was not saying bring that system to the rest of the Thedas. Back to my previous comment that Templars need to get spanked for getting over themselves and going rogue to fight a war, A war that they are responsible for 50% of it if not more. 

[Master Warder Z_]

It does prove that Templars shouldn't be given any more political power than a city guard. They are there to prevent and fix just like the city guards. They have no right, least of all a divine one over mages.

 

I was not saying bring that system to the rest of the Thedas. Back to my previous comment that Templars need to get spanked for getting over themselves and going rogue to fight a war, A war that they are responsible for 50% of it if not more. 

 

Aa I disagree.

 

On Both counts.

[renfrees]

The mages are not locked up in Tevinter, they return to their homes. They have much more freedom and power as David Gaider mentioned. They are not "collared", they are forced to take necessary training. And they are forced by people who were forced before them by same people. Its a process even Magisters go though and once you are done with training you are a free man in tevinter.

Do you truly believe they co-exist peacefully, hold hands and pick daisies on the Valerian fields together? It's a glass of spiders, fighting for domination, barely contained by Archon and Senate. Your Anders wouldn't survive there for a week.

 

You really are so naive when it comes to Tevinter and its "freedoms".

[Lulupab]

Aa I disagree.

 

On Both counts.

 

Based on results there is no single reason this system is better than Tevinter's. And if by any chance you are expecting the old circles to return you are in for a big disappointment as it wont happen. It would make the dullest story of all times. A war stars because of a system only to bring it back again. It has happened in reality sure but its a game and people want interesting stories not dullness of real life. 

[renfrees]

And even Senate only unites "when faced with sedition".

[Lulupab]

Do you truly believe they co-exist peacefully, hold hands and pick daisies on the Valerian fields together? It's a glass of spiders, fighting for domination, barely contained by Archon and Senate. Your Anders wouldn't survive there for a week.

 

You really are so naive when it comes to Tevinter and its "freedoms".

 

Actually now that you count Fenris a reliable source, in banter he tells Anders his case (merged with Justice) would be quite appreciated in Tevinter. As essentially Anders has access to powers of an abomination while being in control, more or less. So yeah Anders would fit in there perfectly.

 

I don't believe in fairy tales, magic training can't be a breeze but its much better than Templar version.

[Master Warder Z_]

Based on results there is no single reason this system is better than Tevinter's. And if by any chance you are expecting the old circles to return you are in for a big disappointment as it wont happen. It would make the dullest story of all times. A war stars because of a system only to bring it back again. It has happened in reality sure but its a game and people want interesting stories not dullness of real life. 

 

The return of the circle is about the only outcome i am fairly certain of in the Mage Templar Conflict.

 

It makes sense from a gameplay perspective, a restored circle being the end game for both sides results in far less hassle in sequels then it would if both sides had entirely different outcomes, those changes either wouldn't be present or they would be reworked and edited so much it likely wouldn't matter.

 

However the middle ground being the same for both ends?

 

It makes things considerably easier.

 

That's how i look at this, i don't look for methods of how it may differ but for how Bioware as a company would look at it.

[dzs Angel]

yep i do... yeah not rly we have plenty blood mages and abomnations even in act 1...

 

Of course you can no one denies that non-mages can weaken the veil but now we have 1 example caused by non-mage and dozens if not hundreds of examples where demons were in thedas thanks to mages so yeah no one ever denied that demons will vanish entirely as lotion said killing mages will reduce it to tiny minimum...

 

 

 

Don't compare technology that is stable to mages that aren't blackpowder won't destroy city or create blight... And nope many folks would torn apart mages just listen guys talking about rumors in ferelden and their opinion toward mages... 

Of course it can´t. It just explodes in a fancy way.

[Master Warder Z_]

Actually now that you count Fenris a reliable source, in banter he tells Anders his case (merged with Justice) would be quite appreciated in Tevinter. As essentially Anders has access to powers of an abomination while being in control, more or less. So yeah Anders would fit in there perfectly.

 

I don't believe in fairy tales, magic training can't be a breeze but its much better than Templar version.

 

He was being sarcastic, He later went on to comment with Anders that the only mages didn't conduct blood magic and slave rituals were harping about injustice, He was very mocking towards Anders.

 

And he said apprenticed to the right Magister he could do well, it was a hypothetical non abomination scenario, Tevinter thankfully has the sense to kill those monsters as well.

[Lulupab]

The return of the circle is about the only outcome i am fairly certain of in the Mage Templar Conflict.

 

It makes sense from a gameplay perspective, a restored circle being the end game for both sides results in far less hassle in sequels then it would if both sides had entirely different outcomes, those changes either wouldn't be present or they would be reworked and edited so much it likely wouldn't matter.

 

However the middle ground being the same for both ends?

 

It makes things considerably easier.

 

That's how i look at this, i don't look for methods of how it may differ but for how Bioware as a company would look at it.

I said old circles not just circles. The old circle will not return, that is not the middle ground, that's mage defeat. The middle ground is circles with autonomy. Mages governing themselves, the boon of circle mage warden and what Alistar/Anora try to when we meet with them in DA2.

[Lulupab]

He was being sarcastic, He later went on to comment with Anders that the only mages didn't conduct blood magic and slave rituals were harping about injustice, He was very mocking towards Anders.

 

And he said apprenticed to the right Magister he could do well, it was a hypothetical non abomination scenario, Tevinter thankfully has the sense to kill those monsters as well.

I'm quite sure Tevinter would look into spirit possession and means to control it as much as possible. As Anders says its the only nations that to this days studies ways to cure abominations without beheading them