8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

That´s excactly my point. Most people in thedas are andrastians like most people in the real world are christians. We don´t miss witch hunts, inquisitions, etc., we believe in a god, that´s it. So why should people in thedas miss the templars?

Of course it could happen. Take Orzammer for example. There is a huge difference between choosing Bhelen or Harrowmont, but the dwarfs are up and runnig either way. 

 

No its between two characters, and the realm will likely not be presented again in game until it doesn't matter. Just like the Anderfels and their possible tomb to the Hero of Fereldan (we will not see this location until the character is dead anyway thus getting the tomb)

 

Its background lore, Mages and Templars are a bit more pressing then that.

[dzs Angel]

Because it's a part of the current story arc and will be present whether you like it or not?

 

It´s a part, but it doesn´t have to be a big part. And the problem can be solved. In 2 games from now the events of DAI will be ancient history like the distruction of the dales.

DA2 was cool, if you ask me. That's why I'm playing DAI. I'm not waiting for DAI because I hated the last game. I don't get this idea.

 

On the flipside, I hate ME3. You won't see me caring me about the next game.

I don´t hate DA 2. I liked Varric and Aveline. Referring to DA 2, if I am able to choose sides and start a war, I should be able to finish the war accordingly.

[Master Warder Z_]

I just have a feeling you will have to just accept another color solution from bioware on this issue.

 

It's about the only way i can view them pulling it off, either that or the war is never completed due to outside events.

 

Eitherway i suppose we will find out just how long it will be an element in DAI; Although i am fairly confident it will linger past that.

[dzs Angel]

I just have a feeling you will have to just accept another color solution from bioware on this issue.

 

It's about the only way i can view them pulling it off, either that or the war is never completed due to outside events.

 

Eitherway i suppose we will find out just how long it will be an element in DAI; Although i am fairly confident it will linger past that.

Guess so.

 

Edit: I liked this discussion.

[Dean_the_Young]

That´s excactly my point. Most people in thedas are andrastians like most people in the real world are christians. We don´t miss witch hunts, inquisitions, etc., we believe in a god, that´s it. So why should people in thedas miss the templars?

Of course it could happen. Take Orzammer for example. There is a huge difference between choosing Bhelen or Harrowmont, but the dwarfs are up and runnig either way. 

 

Because magic is real and dangerous in the Dragon Age universe and the socially established means of containing it from society across most of the continent is containing the Circle system, thus requiring a force to enforce compliance? The Cricle System is the thing that will be missed, and the Templars are tied to it.

 

I mean, I suppose we could go with a brand new faction that polices mages and keeps them in Circles anyway, doing much the same things and filling the same role as the Templars with reforms.

 

But at that point, we might as well call them Templars with reforms.

[Master Warder Z_]

Guess so.

 

You think i wouldn't like further reaching decisions and impact filled solutions?

 

Alas though Bioware has to consider the future state of the Universe and thus it will do what is best for sequels.

[durasteel]

That´s excactly my point. Most people in thedas are andrastians like most people in the real world are christians. We don´t miss witch hunts, inquisitions, etc., we believe in a god, that´s it. So why should people in thedas miss the templars?

Of course it could happen. Take Orzammer for example. There is a huge difference between choosing Bhelen or Harrowmont, but the dwarfs are up and runnig either way. 

 

Actually, only about 31% of the world's population is Christian.

 

I think that even if you take it as a given that upon the resolution of the Mage/Templar plot there will still be mages and templars and Circles of Magi, there remains the question of who will be in charge of the circle system and whether membership is mandatory, and what the penalty for apostasy is.

 

A system where mages are locked away in cages in the Circle towers as templars glare at them through the bars is very different from a system where Mages choose to come together in a Circle tower like a Thedas version of Hogwarts, and Templars are there to guard the mages from the ignorant unwashed peasants, because most mages would rather not have to light them all on fire when they show up at the gate with their pitchforks and torches, braying like asses because their religion makes them afraid.

[Master Warder Z_]

and Templars are there to guard the mages from the ignorant unwashed peasants, because most mages would rather not have to light them all on fire when they show up at the gate with their pitchforks and torches, braying like asses because their religion makes them afraid.

 

Yeah i'm sure one of the most wealthy, most numerous and powerful knightly Orders in the entirety of the world would love being reduced to serving boy.

 

I have a feeling there would be a LOT of resistance if the Templars were attempted to be used by the robes in the aftermath, I can picture a few humorous occurrences already.

 

And Dura Reality makes them afraid, Magic is a plague.

[Lotion Soronarr]

That´s excactly my point. Most people in thedas are andrastians like most people in the real world are christians. We don´t miss witch hunts, inquisitions, etc., we believe in a god, that´s it. So why should people in thedas miss the templars?

 

Well, if witches and deals with devils were real, then we would indeed miss them very much.

[dzs Angel]

You think i wouldn't like further reaching decisions and impact filled solutions?

 

Alas though Bioware has to consider the future state of the Universe and thus it will do what is best for sequels.

You are right. But a series of games including slavery isn´t the right way to do it.

 

1.

Let´s face it, most fantasy fans (huge majority of possible customers for DA) like Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, Sword of Truth, Games of Thrones( I know, no real wizards, just deciples of the one true god, who are able to create demons and heal dead people, book 5). In each lore mages and/or elves are strong, free, independent, benevolent. So why antogonize these customers.

 

2.

Knights of the old Repuplic 1&2

You could choose to destroy the repuplic, thus creating a powerful sith empire, or you could destroy the sith and save the repuplic in game 1. This didn´t stop Knights of the old Repuplic 2 from happening, thus creating an even better game.

[Master Warder Z_]

You are right. But a series of games including slavery isn´t the right way to do it.

 

1.

Let´s face it, most fantasy fans (huge majority of possible customers for DA) like Lord of the Rings, The Hobbit, Sword of Truth, Games of Thrones( I know, no real wizards, just deciples of the one true god, who are able to create demons and heal dead people, book 5). In each lore mages and/or elves are strong, free, independent, benevolent. So why antogonize these customers.

 

2.

Knights of the old Repuplic 1&2

You could choose to destroy the repuplic, thus creating a powerful sith empire, or you could destroy the sith and save the repuplic in game 1. This didn´t stop Knights of the old Repuplic 2 from happening, thus creating an even better game.

 

None of those are comparable to Magic in DA, its more akin to Pysker's from WH then any of those. And thus you cannot make a comparison based on magic that won't explode in your face with demons trying to possess mages en mass with a variant that will. And the for the last time, isn't Slavery, Not literally, Figuratively nor Inquisitively.

 

That was because the darkside ending was considered non canon, You cannot do "non canon" with "world states" the actions you committed, will have reaction.

[durasteel]

...

And Dura Reality makes them afraid, Magic is a plague.

 

I am 43 now, but I can still remember very clearly learning about guns as a teenager. I began ignorant and afraid, but learning about firearms, learning rules for safe handling and cleaning, learning range safety, etc. removed that fear. It has always been an interesting experience for me ever since to go to a gun range with someone unfamiliar with firearms, and to see their attitude change with knowledge and familiarity.

 

Magic is not a plague, any more than steel and gunpowder are plagues. It is a tool which, like almost any tool, can be used to create, destroy, fix, or break. Like a firearm, it will hurt you or someone else if you use it carelessly. It is dangerous if you don't respect it. To be safe, you need to know what you're doing and do it right.

 

Fear comes from ignorance. In Thedas, too often ignorance comes from the Chantry. 

[dzs Angel]

None of those are comparable to Magic in DA, its more akin to Pysker's from WH then any of those. And thus you cannot make a comparison based on magic that won't explode in your face with demons trying to possess mages en mass with a variant that will. And the for the last time, isn't Slavery, Not literally, Figuratively nor Inquisitively.

 

That was because the darkside ending was considered non canon, You cannot do "non canon" with "world states" the actions you committed, will have reaction.

The dark side ending was considered to be non-canon by the book(most people didn´t bother to read). As a matter of fact, the dark side ending of KotoR 1 is the only canon ending  for Kotor 2.

 

The devastating abilities of the force(sith in paticular) can be compared to the abilities of bloodmages. We all know what happened to Admiral Daala, just because she was stupid enough, trying to control the jedi.

 

The psyker in Warhammer 40K are free as well, as long as they don´t commit any crimes. The Inquisition(itself part of the empire) watching, arresting and killing the psykers recruits psykers to become Inquisitors.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I am 43 now, but I can still remember very clearly learning about guns as a teenager. I began ignorant and afraid, but learning about firearms, learning rules for safe handling and cleaning, learning range safety, etc. removed that fear. It has always been an interesting experience for me ever since to go to a gun range with someone unfamiliar with firearms, and to see their attitude change with knowledge and familiarity.

 

Magic is not a plague, any more than steel and gunpowder are plagues. It is a tool which, like almost any tool, can be used to create, destroy, fix, or break. Like a firearm, it will hurt you or someone else if you use it carelessly. It is dangerous if you don't respect it. To be safe, you need to know what you're doing and do it right.

 

Fear comes from ignorance. In Thedas, too often ignorance comes from the Chantry. 

 

Yeah tell that mages causing disasters endlessly have nothing to do with it it is of course chantry propaganda that says that magic is gift and curse when in reality it is only curse... gunpowder can't create blight nor army of undead or werewolves...

[TK514]

I am 43 now, but I can still remember very clearly learning about guns as a teenager. I began ignorant and afraid, but learning about firearms, learning rules for safe handling and cleaning, learning range safety, etc. removed that fear. It has always been an interesting experience for me ever since to go to a gun range with someone unfamiliar with firearms, and to see their attitude change with knowledge and familiarity.
 
Magic is not a plague, any more than steel and gunpowder are plagues. It is a tool which, like almost any tool, can be used to create, destroy, fix, or break. Like a firearm, it will hurt you or someone else if you use it carelessly. It is dangerous if you don't respect it. To be safe, you need to know what you're doing and do it right.
 
Fear comes from ignorance. In Thedas, too often ignorance comes from the Chantry.

Yay for more old timers.

Gun analogy falls apart when you consider that guns don't crawl into your body while you dream and turn you into melted wax meat puppets.

Also, one of the major reasons for the creation of the circles was the study and practice of magic. That's why they have huge libraries full of books written by Mages on the subject and research spaces to perform experiments.

[TK514]

The dark side ending was considered to be non-canon by the book(most people didn´t bother to read). As a matter of fact, the dark side ending of KotoR 1 is the only canon ending  for Kotor 2.
 
The devastating abilities of the force(sith in paticular) can be compared to the abilities of bloodmages. We all know what happened to Admiral Daala, just because she was stupid enough, trying to control the jedi.
 
The psyker in Warhammer 40K are free as well, as long as they don´t commit any crimes. The Inquisition(itself part of the empire) watching, arresting and killing the psykers recruits psykers to become Inquisitors.

Actually, the Dark Side ending was declared non-Canon by LucasArts, the actual owners of the property, and I have no idea how you get the Dark side ending if K1 being the only canon ending to K2.

[Dean_the_Young]

I am 43 now, but I can still remember very clearly learning about guns as a teenager. I began ignorant and afraid, but learning about firearms, learning rules for safe handling and cleaning, learning range safety, etc. removed that fear. It has always been an interesting experience for me ever since to go to a gun range with someone unfamiliar with firearms, and to see their attitude change with knowledge and familiarity.

 

Magic is not a plague, any more than steel and gunpowder are plagues. It is a tool which, like almost any tool, can be used to create, destroy, fix, or break. Like a firearm, it will hurt you or someone else if you use it carelessly. It is dangerous if you don't respect it. To be safe, you need to know what you're doing and do it right.

 

Fear comes from ignorance. In Thedas, too often ignorance comes from the Chantry. 

 

There is the difference that tools don't act on their own, and can be put down. Magic can't be discarded or broken, and doesn't activate just on intent. Plus, with the aspect of demons, psychological health is far more relevant.

 

Magic is safe in a similar way to a potentially contagious, incurable pathogen. It may spread- it may not. Knowledge does decrease the risk. But it's never controlled, and when the conditions are met and it does spread it can be devastating.

[Master Warder Z_]

I am 43 now, but I can still remember very clearly learning about guns as a teenager. I began ignorant and afraid, but learning about firearms, learning rules for safe handling and cleaning, learning range safety, etc. removed that fear. It has always been an interesting experience for me ever since to go to a gun range with someone unfamiliar with firearms, and to see their attitude change with knowledge and familiarity.

 

Magic is not a plague, any more than steel and gunpowder are plagues. It is a tool which, like almost any tool, can be used to create, destroy, fix, or break. Like a firearm, it will hurt you or someone else if you use it carelessly. It is dangerous if you don't respect it. To be safe, you need to know what you're doing and do it right.

 

Fear comes from ignorance. In Thedas, too often ignorance comes from the Chantry. 

 

Age really doesn't have much to do with this Debate, but i can point out i am past the age of thirty if we are doing a comparison

 

And comparing firearms to magic while not entirely inaccurate is willfully leaving out how that comparison doesn't cover the parallel very well. I can if i so choose ultimately put down my firearm, I can if i so choose ultimately not use one. Magic is always there within Dragon Age, its a thing that seeps into the very blood if allowed. It festers within the Mage until they become a danger to themselves or others, This isn't always the case; with proper training they can even be useful.

 

But they are still a danger, Not only due to the failure of personal will and ego but also because of the beings that lurk beyond the veil.

.

Magic is a tool, but it is also a curse, it attracts ethereal beings that seek to subvert Human will and turn humans into quite literal abominations.

 

What sort would i be if i didn't seek to prevent that? to want to protect the common man from such beings? That is why magic must be confined, that is why magic must be controlled and that is why mages must never be free. You allow the temptation, the thought of freedom and it drives them to madness, Subverting the will of their common man couldn't be anymore encouraged then possession, its no more then containing a threat.

 

And You leave out that Fear is a legitimate and useful response to things that cannot be controlled and that are dangerous.

 

And the Chantry even if the Dogma is false, isn't wrong about the threat of magic and isn't wrong about it needing to be sealed away from the normal people.

[dzs Angel]

Actually, the Dark Side ending was declared non-Canon by LucasArts, the actual owners of the property, and I have no idea how you get the Dark side ending if K1 being the only canon ending to K2.

1. It was declared non canon because of the book. They used it as the only ending for KotoR 2. For the sake of SWtoR we now may considered it to be not canon.

2. Pretty simple: Don´t fight Bastila on the rooftop of the temple, join her. Once you join her, you have to kill Jolee and Juhani, if you are accompanied by both of ém.

[Master Warder Z_]

1. It was declared non canon because of the book. They used it as the only ending for KotoR 2. For the sake of SWtoR we now may considered it to be not canon.

2. Pretty simple: Don´t fight Bastila on the rooftop of the temple, join her. Once you join her, you have to kill Jolee and Yuthani.

 

1. What book?

2. As was said before Lucas Arts declared it non canon.

[TK514]

1. It was declared non canon because of the book. They used it as the only ending for KotoR 2. For the sake of SWtoR we now may considered it to be not canon.
2. Pretty simple: Don´t fight Bastila on the rooftop of the temple, join her. Once you join her, you have to kill Jolee and Yuthani.

No..it was declared non-Canon because LucasArts always declares the light side ending the canon event. It was corporate policy. Whether Disney will continue that policy remains to be seen. The book may have benefitted from that policy, but wasn't the cause of anything. And the canon ending of K2 only concerns itself with a light side Exile leaving Republic space in search of a light side Revan and whatever evil he discovered.

All of which is pretty far off topic, so I'll stop.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Uh Kotor 2 didn't have a canon ending for Kotor 1. They let you choose both Revan's gender and alignment when talking to Atton at the start of the game. He basically assumes she's a darkside female, and you can "correct" one or both of those "misconceptions" when you first meet him if you want.

[dzs Angel]

1. What book?

2. As was said before Lucas Arts declared it non canon.

The book is called Revan, written by Drew Karpyshen. It explains why Revan left the repuplic after KotoR´s light side ending, leading to the events of SWtoR.

 

No..it was declared non-Canon because LucasArts always declares the light side ending the canon event. It was corporate policy. Whether Disney will continue that policy remains to be seen. The book may have benefitted from that policy, but wasn't the cause of anything. And the canon ending of K2 only concerns itself with a light side Exile leaving Republic space in search of a light side Revan and whatever evil he discovered.

All of which is pretty far off topic, so I'll stop.

I stand corrected.