Uh Kotor 2 didn't have a canon ending for Kotor 1. They let you choose both Revan's gender and alignment when talking to Atton at the start of the game. He basically assumes she's a darkside female, and you can "correct" one or both of those "misconceptions" when you first meet him if you want.
It is stated, that Revan returned to the sith after defeating( but not destroying) the repuplic by Bastila(twice). But Goto believes the repuplic has won the war.
As much as i like discussing Starwars this off topic discussion need stop.
The dark side ending was considered to be non-canon by the book(most people didn´t bother to read). As a matter of fact, the dark side ending of KotoR 1 is the only canon ending for Kotor 2.
The devastating abilities of the force(sith in paticular) can be compared to the abilities of bloodmages. We all know what happened to Admiral Daala, just because she was stupid enough, trying to control the jedi.
The psyker in Warhammer 40K are free as well, as long as they don´t commit any crimes. The Inquisition(itself part of the empire) watching, arresting and killing the psykers recruits psykers to become Inquisitors.
As much as i like discussing Starwars this off topic discussion need stop.
Back on topic
We compared a lot of games to DA. It is doable to change the fate of mages and elves forever. But we don´t know if they will do it.
We compared a lot of games to DA. It is doable to change the fate of mages and elves forever. But we don´t know if they will do it.
I still disagree with it even being able to be implemented into any meaningful way but even if it was?
I strongly doubt it occurring.
We compared a lot of games to DA. It is doable to change the fate of mages and elves forever. But we don´t know if they will do it.
It would be pointless if our actions meant nothing. The lack of significant choice was one of the primary complaints made about the previous Dragon Age game. It would be a mistake for our decision between mages or templars to be meaningless.
Complaints were issued about choices not meaning much for ME3.
Not much came of it.
Bioware may occasionally throw in how if you supported the Templars, the restructured circle is far better behaved and more stable then the previous one.
Or Vice Versa the Mages, Then the circle free of the influence of the chantry is great, blah, blah.
Its just i don't see them going beyond occasional token offerings like that.
I still disagree with it even being able to be implemented into any meaningful way but even if it was?
I strongly doubt it occurring.
Listen to LobselVith8. They will have to reintroduce choice in DA: I
It would be pointless if our actions meant nothing. The lack of significant choice was one of the primary complaints made about the previous Dragon Age game. It would be a mistake for our decision between mages or templars to be meaningless.
I do agree. As a matter of fact, this is the most important point regarding this discussion. They will have to implement choices, and these choices should influence the ending of DA: I.
Listen to LobselVith8. They will have to reintroduce choice in DA: I
I am entitled to my own perspective of things, including how events of DAI may or may not shape future installments within the series.
I am leaning towards how it occurred in Prior DA games, Mass Effect and etc.
You occasionally heard of it/encountered it but it never was a pressing thing considering the game had a new plot and didn't spend much time rehashing over spent business.
Unless if the Mage Templar conflict is still present by the time of a sequel, Then said plot may be implemented into the game, but other then that? It would be a mention or interaction. Just a minor plot device or Cameo.
I am entitled to my own perspective of things, including how events of DAI may or may not shape future installments within the series.
I am leaning towards how it occurred in Prior DA games, Mass Effect and etc.
You occasionally heard of it/encountered it but it never was a pressing thing considering the game had a new plot and didn't spend much time rehashing over spent business.
Unless if the Mage Templar conflict is still present by the time of a sequel, Then said plot may be implemented into the game, but other then that? It would be a mention or interaction. Just a minor plot device or Cameo.
Guess so
On the flip side, I'm betting some of the Templars have wanted this war for years as well. Both sides have just been boiling pots for many moons now. I'm sure that many are relieved that it's all in the open, finally.
Personally, I think both sides are being fairly moronic, but that's just me.
I don't personally see just how moronic the mages can be when they're fighting for their lives at the moment.
I don't personally see just how moronic the mages can be when they're fighting for their lives at the moment.
I don't personally see just how moronic the mages can be when they're fighting for their lives at the moment.
Have you ever met people who perceive themselves in a life-or-death struggle with eternal consequences?
Logic, rationality, and long-term thinking are rarely the priorities for those fixated on the immediate struggle. Making someone fight for their lives (or just immediate stress in general) is an excellent way to make someone reactive rather than proactive, and much more likely to screw up and make moronic errors.
Have you ever met people who perceive themselves in a life-or-death struggle with eternal consequences?
Logic, rationality, and long-term thinking are rarely the priorities for those fixated on the immediate struggle. Making someone fight for their lives (or just immediate stress in general) is an excellent way to make someone reactive rather than proactive, and much more likely to screw up and make moronic errors.
To clarify: I can certainly see individual mages being moronic. What I meant is that I cannot see their current overall situation, of fighting for their lives and other things as LobselVith mentioned, as itself being moronic.
To clarify: I can certainly see individual mages being moronic. What I meant is that I cannot see their current overall situation, of fighting for their lives and other things as LobselVith mentioned, as itself being moronic.
Would you consider choosing to enter into a life or death struggle without a credible strategy, realistic end-state, and means to secure them as moronic?
Would you consider choosing to enter into a life or death struggle without a credible strategy, realistic end-state, and means to secure them as moronic?
Given the alternatives at the time, not really, no.
Given the alternatives at the time, not really, no.
Why would setting the groundwork for success not be a more inteligent alternative to needlessly risking catastrophic failure?
Why would setting the groundwork for success not be a more inteligent alternative to needlessly risking catastrophic failure?
Because at the point where secession was decided, it was either that or hope really, really hard that the templars wouldn't just kill or Tranquilize all of them at Andoral's Reach.
Because at the point where secession was decided, it was either that or hope really, really hard that the templars wouldn't just kill or Tranquilize all of them at Andoral's Reach.
That's a false delimma and you know it, Xilizhra.
That's a false delimma and you know it, Xilizhra.
Not... really. They're already stuck on a mountain with templars who are already angry coming in, and their choices are to fight or surrender... with poor track records for the latter. Hell, the choice to secede seemed to have delayed the siege significantly, given the ensuing wrangling over the templars' own secession.
To clarify: I can certainly see individual mages being moronic. What I meant is that I cannot see their current overall situation, of fighting for their lives and other things as LobselVith mentioned, as itself being moronic.
LIVE FREE OR DIE
DEATH IS NOT
THE WORST OF EVILS
It's kind of funny, really. People who support the idea that Templars should strip away any liberty from all mages, forcibly if necessary with death as a reasonable punishment for defiance... their attitude seems to be that since their cause is sanctified by the Chant, it is "moronic" for the mages to do anything other than submit and be interred.
These same people would reject that argument if made by the Qunari: that the Antaam should bring everyone into the Qun, forcibly if necessary, with death as the only acceptable alternative. Since their cause is sanctified by the Qun, it is moronic for the kabethari to refuse to submit and live within the Qun.
Not... really. They're already stuck on a mountain with templars who are already angry coming in, and their choices are to fight or surrender... with poor track records for the latter. Hell, the choice to secede seemed to have delayed the siege significantly, given the ensuing wrangling over the templars' own secession.
Surrender is not synonymous with execution and tranquility, Xil.
Moreover, the mage leaders and actors instigating the context and timing of limiting options are still responsible for forcing that context and timing. The logic of a secession struggle doesn't start at the moment of the vote: it also tracks the decisions leading up to the vote. In this case, repeatedly pressing the cause of independence without actually laying the groundwork for it first, and thus forcing everyone else into a worse position.
Good if you're willing to get a lot of people killed. Not so good if your goal is actually to succeed. This is why Russia has a better chance of annexing the Crimea than Fiona has in breaking free of the Circle system: Putin at least layed the groundwork for his grab in the chaos.
LIVE FREE OR DIE
DEATH IS NOT
THE WORST OF EVILS
It's kind of funny, really. People who support the idea that Templars should strip away any liberty from all mages, forcibly if necessary with death as a reasonable punishment for defiance... their attitude seems to be that since their cause is sanctified by the Chant, it is "moronic" for the mages to do anything other than submit and be interred.
These same people would reject that argument if made by the Qunari: that the Antaam should bring everyone into the Qun, forcibly if necessary, with death as the only acceptable alternative. Since their cause is sanctified by the Qun, it is moronic for the kabethari to refuse to submit and live within the Qun.
Out of curiosity, who are these people you refer to?
I mean, I know I don't hold the viewpoint you just described. I admit I don't pay attention to Kommodor, but I don't think Warden Z does either. I'm kind of curious, because appealing to the Chant and religion isn't a common pro-Templar viewpoint.
I'm sure you're not strawmanning others or anything, so who are these people? Got any names you can share?
Surrender is not synonymous with execution and tranquility, Xil.
Moreover, the mage leaders and actors instigating the context and timing of limiting options are still responsible for forcing that context and timing. The logic of a secession struggle doesn't start at the moment of the vote: it also tracks the decisions leading up to the vote. In this case, repeatedly pressing the cause of independence without actually laying the groundwork for it first, and thus forcing everyone else into a worse position.
Good if you're willing to get a lot of people killed. Not so good if your goal is actually to succeed. This is why Russia has a better chance of annexing the Crimea than Fiona has in breaking free of the Circle system: Putin at least layed the groundwork for his grab in the chaos.
It certainly seems to be in times of Annulment; I believe Gaider clarified that those who surrender in DA2 in the templar ending will be made Tranquil later. And this is just a large-scale version of that, it seems.
I personally believe that the possible window for said groundwork was closing too rapidly... additionally, Adrian's action that was the prime factor for sparking things was wholly unilateral and didn't have anything to do with the rest of the mage leadership. If Fiona's plan alone had been enacted, and if Lambert could have been proven to act without sufficient provocation, then I think it would have been enough pressure on Justinia to possibly have Lambert removed from the picture.
LIVE FREE OR DIE
DEATH IS NOT
THE WORST OF EVILS
It's kind of funny, really. People who support the idea that Templars should strip away any liberty from all mages, forcibly if necessary with death as a reasonable punishment for defiance... their attitude seems to be that since their cause is sanctified by the Chant, it is "moronic" for the mages to do anything other than submit and be interred.
These same people would reject that argument if made by the Qunari: that the Antaam should bring everyone into the Qun, forcibly if necessary, with death as the only acceptable alternative. Since their cause is sanctified by the Qun, it is moronic for the kabethari to refuse to submit and live within the Qun.
I like the way you think
Surrender is not synonymous with execution and tranquility, Xil.
Moreover, the mage leaders and actors instigating the context and timing of limiting options are still responsible for forcing that context and timing. The logic of a secession struggle doesn't start at the moment of the vote: it also tracks the decisions leading up to the vote. In this case, repeatedly pressing the cause of independence without actually laying the groundwork for it first, and thus forcing everyone else into a worse position.
Good if you're willing to get a lot of people killed. Not so good if your goal is actually to succeed. This is why Russia has a better chance of annexing the Crimea than Fiona has in breaking free of the Circle system: Putin at least layed the groundwork for his grab in the chaos.
With all due respect, you know as well as I do: The first rule in crushing a rebellion(or possible rebellion) is to kill the leaders of the rebellion and most(or every) of the soldiers able to fight you, thus ensuring no further rebillions will be possible. And this would have caused a considereable amount of blodshed in the ranks of the mages.
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