8640 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Well, to clarify, it had a lot to do with the fact that I had never really spent much time thinking about the topic of the mage revolution before, other than it seemed like an interesting backdrop for the next iteration of the story. With regard to Merrill, I don't know what to tell you... the issue wasn't  that the opinions posted were hostile to Merrill, I could give a crap about that. What bothered me, honestly, was that some of them were so completely stupid. I have a low threshold for that.

 

Or it was that you didn't like people pointing fingers at Merrill for what happened with the demon

[AresKeith]

Hey its Bioware, your LIs will forgive practically anything.

 

Fixed that

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hey its DA, your LIs will forgive practically anything.

Not true. Tranquilizing Feynriel will permanently stop your romance with Anders. 

[dragonflight288]

Or it was that you didn't like people pointing fingers at Merrill for what happened with the demon

 

I don't like people pointing fingers at Merrill for what happened with the demon either since there's no evidence to support it. Merely Merrill hate. 

 

But that's a different subject and I'll discuss Merrill in PM's rather than here. Let's stay on topic. 

 

Now...back to mages like Merrill. 

[Steelcan]

The Inquisitor's job is going to be to restore order correct?

 

I don't see how abetting a war between Templars and Mages will help that, because that's the vibe that I get from many mage supporters, they want to fight the war to a bitter end and win freedom, whereas the Templar supporters want business as usual back...

 

 

Which is one reason why I am extremely doubtful we will see any meaningful progress on the issue, the end result for the mage line is too wildly different from the templar one

[Grieving Natashina]

Compassion vs. sense? I'd pick compassion any day.

Individual liberty vs. collective security? I'd pick the minority every time.

Me too.

[wcholcombe]

Hey, we are not going back into that senseless drivel that was the merril debate.  So help me ya'll go there I will slit my own rist and tear the viel to kingdom come and end all of this!

[Grieving Natashina]

Agreed. The way she trotted her tranquil assitant about. They way she bullied Kirkwall. Her compassionate glance. Nary a playthrough goes by that a tear doesn't come to my eye everytime I have to put such a kind, sweet and innocent woman down.

I laughed so hard at this, I had to cover my mouth.  My hubby is trying to sleep before he goes to work.

 

This was my feelings exactly, even on my pro-Templar session.  I felt some more sympathy than I did before when I learned her backstory, but even then I didn't see a "poor lady."  As a pro-Mage, the target of my vengeance had finally revealed itself.  As a pro-Templar, it was sadly my duty to kill her.  I can't say, "Oh, poor Meredith" in either case.  She's an adult, she chose to hold onto the lyrium idol and even before that, she choose her actions.  

 

Besides, personal feelings aside, I refuse to have pity for the woman.  Pity is for the weak and despite her other numerous problems, Meredith wasn't weak.  The willpower she had should be commended; it took her years after acquiring the idol to completely slide into and build a house in Crazy Land.

[durasteel]

Erm and you think she would bed a thing her family spent generations killing for a living?

 

Your logic is impeccable.

 

Buffy  s Angel (and Spike)

[Master Warder Z_]

Agreed. The way she trotted her tranquil assitant about. They way she bullied Kirkwall. Her compassionate glance. Nary a playthrough goes by that a tear doesn't come to my eye everytime I have to put such a kind, sweet and innocent woman down.

 

The way she kept those idiots in the circle contained, the way she kept the city relatively stable and secure for ten plus years, The way she protected it since her promotion.

 

:/  Make fun all you like but she believed in her cause and that isn't a failing.

[Xilizhra]

I laughed so hard at this, I had to cover my mouth.  My hubby is trying to sleep before he goes to work.

 

This was my feelings exactly, even on my pro-Templar session.  I felt some more sympathy than I did before when I learned her backstory, but even then I didn't see a "poor lady."  As a pro-Mage, the target of my vengeance had finally revealed itself.  As a pro-Templar, it was sadly my duty to kill her.  I can't say, "Oh, poor Meredith" in either case.  She's an adult, she chose to hold onto the lyrium idol and even before that, she choose her actions.  

 

Besides, personal feelings aside, I refuse to have pity for the woman.  Pity is for the weak and despite her other numerous problems, Meredith wasn't weak.  The willpower she had should be commended; it took her years after acquiring the idol to completely slide into and build a house in Crazy Land.

I think Meredith was weak. Specifically in her inability to remove herself from constantly reliving the death of her sister and trying to impose whatever mad measures she could to try to ensure that it couldn't happen again... she was always broken, the sword just shattered her.

[Grieving Natashina]

The way she kept those idiots in the circle contained, the way she kept the city relatively stable and secure for ten plus years, The way she protected it since her promotion.

 

:/  Make fun all you like but she believed in her cause and that isn't a failing.

Then the same should be said about Anders.

[Hellion Rex]

The way she kept those idiots in the circle contained, the way she kept the city relatively stable and secure for ten plus years, The way she protected it since her promotion.

 

:/  Make fun all you like but she believed in her cause and that isn't a failing.

I personally don't fault her conviction. Believing in her duty as she did is certainly commendable. Nonetheless, it's her actions that I call into question, not her beliefs or faith.

[The Elder King]

Come join us in the middle then.  We've got the best seats in the house!

  
I support this .

I was a pro-mage once that would have made Anders weep for joy...dark days indeed.

Changing from a pro-Anders to a pro-Qun is a huge change indeed .

[Xilizhra]

I personally don't fault her conviction. Believing in her duty as she did is certainly commendable. Nonetheless, it's her actions that I call into question, not her beliefs or faith.

I wouldn't say it's unfair to say that her beliefs and faith completely sucked as well.

[The Elder King]

I think Meredith was weak. Specifically in her inability to remove herself from constantly reliving the death of her sister and trying to impose whatever mad measures she could to try to ensure that it couldn't happen again... she was always broken, the sword just shattered her.

I somehow agree with it. She had a lot of mental scarring.
Kind of a costand with major pro-templar in DA2. Meredith, Cullen and at Fenris all had those.

[dzs Angel]

Christ, I'm going to need a drink here soon you folks keep on yakkin' 'bout it.

 

Whiskey Monday anyone?

i´m in

 

Qunari. 

 

I stand corrected

1. Head cannon. There has been plenty in game supporting both sides of the debate with nothing substantial on either side. It is what you believe, but nothing in game says so.  The same type of god who would destroy an entire city to ash because he was mad at his people, the same god who would flood an entire world of his people, seriously religion isn't nice.  Most of the exalted marches had nothing to do with elves or mages.......

2.  They are laws, the nations submit to chantry authority over the circles.  Gaider has said this. This is why the boons to free the mages doesn't work. The king of ferelden can ask and the chantry says no.  Also, the chant and the chantry predate orlais. It actually started in Tevinter before Orlais was founded.  Also, read asunder some time.  The villagers are terrified when they find out there are mages.  We have also met some terrified fereldens when they meet a mage and some residents of kirkwall seem terrified as well.  As we haven't been anywhere else, I can't argue that.

1.

 

There was one march each against elves and qunari, the remaining marches where against mages.

 

2.

 

But they where forced to accept this rules. They did not create them.

 

 

But don´t forget, we are talking about a world, where man in skirts oppress man in dresses.

 

The Inquisitor's job is going to be to restore order correct?

 

I don't see how abetting a war between Templars and Mages will help that, because that's the vibe that I get from many mage supporters, they want to fight the war to a bitter end and win freedom, whereas the Templar supporters want business as usual back...

 

 

Which is one reason why I am extremely doubtful we will see any meaningful progress on the issue, the end result for the mage line is too wildly different from the templar one

Keeping slavery, fighting two possible allies (mages and elves) doesn´t help either.

[Hellion Rex]

I wouldn't say it's unfair to say that her beliefs and faith completely sucked as well.

Xil, at this point, you certainly entitled to believe what you will. I simply disagree with your assertion that she was "weak."

[durasteel]

...

:/  Make fun all you like but she believed in her cause and that isn't a failing.

 

That depends on the cause, amigo. All depends on the cause.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I actually had an interesting experience interacting with Meredith on my first Hawke. He was a moderate who kept trying to keep the peace between mages and templars. Meredith, while hardly the most evil antagonist in the game, seemed like the primary enemy to that goal. In the Last Straw though, when Anders (who was one of the companions I felt I could rely on) blew up the Chantry and singlehandly doomed everything I'd been working for and Meredith was revealed to be suffering from insansity, my contempt and sympathy for the two of them rather dramatically reversed to a certain extent. After Meredith's rather excruciating looking death and Anders' rather unsatisfying execution, I actually wished that Hawke had been given a dialouge option to express sympathy for her, even if she had to be stopped.

[Grieving Natashina]

When I first joined the forums, someone asked me which side I choose on the templars and mages debate.  I said both.  I was told that I wasn't allowed to do that, and that I had to choose.  I informed this person that, "I'm a player in a video game, which allows me to see both sides of this.  That's the beauty of a game; I am the third person view and don't have to pick a side."

 

Knowing that someone else might try to pull that, I grabbed that quote from Varric and put it in my signature.   He said it all and I'm glad we'll be seeing a more humane side to both factions come Inquisition.

 

Allen, David, if you guys are even bothering to read this, I'd like to say thank you for that.  I look forward to seeing more of the human sides of these big institutions that have influenced our decisions in game.  <bow>

[Master Warder Z_]

I wouldn't say it's unfair to say that her beliefs and faith completely sucked as well.

 

Your perspective on it has been noted.

 

 

I personally don't fault her conviction. Believing in her duty as she did is certainly commendable. Nonetheless, it's her actions that I call into question, not her beliefs or faith.

 

I don't view what she did as overly bad, you cannot coddle your charges when you are circumventing you at ever opportunity. You cannot hand their hand and tell them to behave while at the same time allowing them to rampage across the city. Kirkwall was a cursed place though, it ruined everything that ever walked in there.

 

 

Then the same should be said about Anders.

 

When Meredith crawls out of the grave and detonates an explosive in a place of worship killing a bunch of priests you gimmie a holler okay?

[The Baconer]

The way she kept those idiots in the circle contained, the way she kept the city relatively stable and secure for ten plus years, The way she protected it since her promotion.

 

:/  Make fun all you like but she believed in her cause and that isn't a failing.

 

Are we still talking about Meredith? I don't think she did any of those things.

[Xilizhra]

When I first joined the forums, someone asked me which side I choose on the templars and mages debate.  I said both.  I was told that I wasn't allowed to do that, and that I had to choose.  I informed this person that, "I'm a player in a video game, which allows me to see both sides of this.  That's the beauty of a game; I am the third person view and don't have to pick a side."

 

Knowing that someone else might try to pull that, I grabbed that quote from Varric and put it in my signature.   He said it all and I'm glad we'll be seeing a more humane side to both factions come Inquisition.

 

Allen, David, if you guys are even bothering to read this, I'd like to say thank you for that.  I look forward to seeing more of the human sides of these big institutions that have influenced our decisions in game.  <bow>

I admit, I don't entirely like that quote, because it seems to be emphasizing the wrong thing. When one group of your friends starts trying to massacre the other... that's when the line in the sand matters.

 

When Meredith crawls out of the grave and detonates an explosive in a place of worship killing a bunch of priests you gimmie a holler okay?

Do tell me when Anders kills more than, like, four people at a time.

[wcholcombe]

i´m in

 

 

I stand corrected

1.

 

There was one march each against elves and qunari, the remaining marches where against mages.

 

2.

 

But they where forced to accept this rules. They did not create them.

 

2. Where is that?  Most of all the world is Andrastian.  Until recently before the split there was one dominant andrastian faith.  Even in Tevinter until recently the mages were kept under templar control and couldn't hold offices, that has obviously changed.  With the world as it was when the original inquisition came  into being that became the templars, I figure most countries just wanted someone to get the "mage problem" under control.  I don't think they had to be forced.