8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Because Bioware is a company that is trying to sell a product, and child-murder simulators aren't a particularly viable one. It's also why we don't see rape, canibalism, torture, people taking ****s, childbirth, or penetrative sex without underwear on, despite all being well established or at least very strongly implied in the setting.

There should be more examples of it, whether in conversations, codex entries and so forth. Taking into account all the information we have from games and novels (and comics), we have Connor, Orana, Meredith's sister and possibly Amalia based on player's choice.

Considering how much focus is actually given to abominations as a
whole, that's a fair deal. It firmly establishes that it can and does
happen, both in the past and in the present day. It also establishes that the factors do not require a mage-child to be malevolent or even deliberate to be a victim.

There's no 'should' about needing more examples, because sufficent examples are already there. Children can manifest as mages, and even when young and weak they can become targets. You may want more, but it doesn't change what is already established: children are not safe from the risks associated with demonic possession.

That's not a lot of examples if abominations are as common as the Chantry says. And Orana sounded a lot like Feynriel's special case as a dreamer.

I've read your argument about that, and to be blunt it only sounds like Orana was a dreamer if you go into it thinking she was a dreamer. Your argument is circular, and is little more than confirmation bias based on an unsupported claim that special cases are the only ones at real risks because they were special cases.

[leaguer of one]

The Hierophant wrote...

Yeah Lambert was acting on paranoia but the cure for tranquility hinges on possession and abominations are dangerous. Controlled environment or not. Remember the massacre at the fortress? But despite confidentiality Wynne told everyone and their mother about it regardless of it's viability, and now that knowledge is out there for anyone good or bad to take advantage of.

The positive of the research is that illegally or wrongly tranquiled mages can be cured but on the flipside that now applies to violent criminals too, wether it's by accident or is intentional.

Another positive is that tranquility can't be used by abusive Templars to control their victims, but on the flipside it can't be used as a deterrent against potential criminals or blood mages since the consequence reversible.

I have a feeling that everything won't be sunshine and rainbows, but anything can happen in regards to the writers' intentions. Like there being all peace on Thedas with no violence or magical abuse, evah.

It's not sappose to be use as a punish ment.

[Dean_the_Young]

leaguer of one wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

SgtSteel91 wrote...

COUGHmeredith'ssisterwasalsoachildabominationCOUGH

Just because child mages are not as good as adult mages doesn't mean demons won't go for them.

And so that begs the question....Why haven't we seen more than two child abominations? If abominations are as common as Kommander would have us believe, then why isn't all of Thedas, pre-veil tear, overrun with demons possessing these children?

Because Bioware is a company that is trying to sell a product, and child-murder simulators aren't a particularly viable one.  It's also why we don't see rape, canibalism, torture, people taking ****s, childbirth, or penetrative sex without underwear on, despite all being well established or at least very strongly implied in the setting.

1.Off screen.
2.we do see that in tthe quest for the avnil of the void.
3. Off screen.
4.off screen.
5. There's a mod for that.

The fact that it's off screen is the point. Even the canabilism is only mentioned, not shown. There are many things Bioware isn't going to focus on for a lack of interest and taste, and child abominations is one of them.

And we have plenty of child killing.

Not really. Only Connor- otherwise, they're offscreen or implied. Even Connor wasn't a case where we, the player, would do it in a case like combat.

[Dean_the_Young]

leaguer of one wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...




Debatable considering the Chantry has authorized it to be used as a punishment.

No it's not being that the chantry did not make it legal.

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tranquil
"[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">It is the judgment of the ] whether a mage needs to be made Tranquil.[/color][2][color=rgb(213, 212, 212)"> ] law forbids performing the Rite of Tranquility without significant provocation and the agreement of the relevant Circle's [/color]First Enchanter[color=rgb(213, 212, 212)">. "Provocation", in this case, means that the mage either cannot control their magic or has shown no signs of willingness to do so.Since a mage who has passed the ] is deemed to be of strong enough will to resist demonic possession, forcibly making them Tranquil is theoretically against Chantry law."[/color]

Point blank, forcing it on a mage is illigal via chantry law.

My point stands. You're just making sure crooked cop arn't corrected because doing so make the police force look bad.

...says the person who is posting a codex quote that says the Rite of Tranquility is legal under Chantry rules with conditions? Either you don't understand what you posted, or you're just as guilty of talking crap.

Forcing it on the mage is fine. Forcing it on the mage without the senior mage signing off on it is the problem.

[The Hierophant]

leaguer of one wrote...

It's not sappose to be use as a punishment.

Oh so sorry i don't know what i was thinking? (luls)

It's supposed to be full on executions for violent and non violent offenders.

[LobselVith8]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not certain how you can condemn the entire Circle when the Champion only encounters the criminal element outside the Gallows, and never meets with the hundreds of men, women, and children who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. It's like condemning all the dwarves of Kirkwall because of the plethora of carta members you fight against.

Circle was corrupted it was proved many times by many groups of circle mages that were abomnations or blood mages even leader was corrupted and was dealing with necromancy and very nasty kind of blood magic and RoA showed that was true abomnation on abomnation meredith was right even if she was insane... It doest matter
1)dwarves can't burn city... (they can't even cause half damage that mage can do)
2)dwarves can't be turned into insane powerful monster

IF they could choping dwarves would be in place

Orsino is one man, and his actions don't represent the multitude of men and women who were living in the Gallows. And you're citing mage criminals, who also don't provide any insight into the myriad of mages who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. The narrarive never puts us in a position to get any insight into the kind of people who constitute the local Circle of Kirkwall, or to acquire enough information to make a judgement about them - either positive or negative.

Regardless, the Right of Annulment is called to kill an entire population of mages for the actions of one man - Anders. And we know that the mages are innocent of this man's actions. The risks of possession don't change this fact.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LobselVith8 wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I'm not certain how you can condemn the entire Circle when the Champion only encounters the criminal element outside the Gallows, and never meets with the hundreds of men, women, and children who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. It's like condemning all the dwarves of Kirkwall because of the plethora of carta members you fight against.

Circle was corrupted it was proved many times by many groups of circle mages that were abomnations or blood mages even leader was corrupted and was dealing with necromancy and very nasty kind of blood magic and RoA showed that was true abomnation on abomnation meredith was right even if she was insane... It doest matter
1)dwarves can't burn city... (they can't even cause half damage that mage can do)
2)dwarves can't be turned into insane powerful monster

IF they could choping dwarves would be in place

Orsino is one man, and his actions don't represent the multitude of men and women who were living in the Gallows. And you're citing mage criminals, who also don't provide any insight into the myriad of mages who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. The narrarive never puts us in a position to get any insight into the kind of people who constitute the local Circle of Kirkwall, or to acquire enough information to make a judgement about them - either positive or negative.

Regardless, the Right of Annulment is called to kill an entire population of mages for the actions of one man - Anders. And we know that the mages are innocent of this man's actions. The risks of possession don't change this fact.

Please stop playing dumb... orsino wasn't alone grace and her blood mages , ilduna (that was her name?) tarohne and her group of blood mages and many rly many others massive numbers of blood mages or abomnations in kirkwall... and yes it does by main quest in every act we have at least one quest where we have to deal at least with 1 group of insane mages or abomnations...

And as i said reason of insane woman doesn't matter if meredith (if insane guy will slay bandtis it would be still sane thing to do) would be sane she would chop entire circle with corruption excuse only dumb elthina was stoping her and even more dumber divane who let walking bombs roam free and set world war just to save few mages or other stupid reason...

So meredith reason is hardly revelant sane knight commandor would do same thing just for another reasons and in the end meredith was right about mages so...

even hawke admits that mages are presenting constant danger for kirkwall...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 17 février 2014 - 08:08 .

[KaiserShep]

Seems to me that it's either:

A) The plethora of apostates and an Enchanter *suspected* of corruption are reason enough to invoke the Right of Annulment, or:

Mages are too dangerous to keep alive, thus their very existence is reason enough to invoke the Right of Annulment, gathering from the "walking bomb" comment.

What's the point then?

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

Seems to me that it's either:

A) The plethora of apostates and an Enchanter *suspected* of corruption are reason enough to invoke the Right of Annulment, or:

Mages are too dangerous to keep alive, thus their very existence is reason enough to invoke the Right of Annulment, gathering from the "walking bomb" comment.

What's the point then?

A) is reason why templars did it and they were right (well we don't discuss meredith motivation only templar order as whole) and they justified in law doing that (don't take me as lawful person but im showing templar point)

B)is my reason why i want remove mages forever not templars and it is proven by many magical incydents...

[LobselVith8]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Orsino is one man, and his actions don't represent the multitude of men and women who were living in the Gallows. And you're citing mage criminals, who also don't provide any insight into the myriad of mages who comprise the Circle of Kirkwall. The narrarive never puts us in a position to get any insight into the kind of people who constitute the local Circle of Kirkwall, or to acquire enough information to make a judgement about them - either positive or negative.

Regardless, the Right of Annulment is called to kill an entire population of mages for the actions of one man - Anders. And we know that the mages are innocent of this man's actions. The risks of possession don't change this fact.

Please stop playing dumb... orsino wasn't alone grace and her blood mages , ilduna (that was her name?) tarohne and her group of blood mages and many rly many others massive numbers of blood mages or abomnations in kirkwall... and yes it does by main quest in every act we have at least one quest where we have to deal at least with 1 group of insane mages or abomnations...

You mean the mage criminals I already made reference to - who don't automatically condemn hundreds of other people for their actions.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

And as i said reason of insane woman doesn't matter if meredith (if insane guy will slay bandtis it would be still sane thing to do) would be sane she would chop entire circle with corruption excuse only dumb elthina was stoping her and even more dumber divane who let walking bombs roam free and set world war just to save few mages or other stupid reason...  

I don't think it's dumb to disagree with Meredith's actions, or her perspective. I'm also not looking to get into a "chicken or the egg" argument about Meredith's methods and the rogue mages.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

So meredith reason is hardly revelant sane knight commandor would do same thing just for another reasons and in the end meredith was right about mages so...

I don't think a sane Knight-Commander would kill hundreds of people for the actions of one man, or condemn an entire population for the behavior of criminals.

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

even hawke admits that mages are presenting constant danger for kirkwall...

Hawke can say a lot of things, including condemning the Chantry controlled Circles as slavery.

[KaiserShep]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
A) is reason why templars did it and they were right (well we don't discuss meredith motivation only templar order as whole) and they justified in law doing that (don't take me as lawful person but im showing templar point)

No, they weren't. Whatever the reason the Right's invocation may have been suggested before The Last Straw, it was clear that many innocent people were being condemned for the action of a known apostate who has no association with the Circle whatsoever. The Templars are supposed to protect the mages within the Circle just as they are supposed to protect the public from them, and the Right of Annulment is supposed to be a last resort if the Circle is out of control. There was no indication whatsoever that it was. Any reasoning to the effect of "but they can do this, or can do that" or "I suspect the Enchanter of A, B and C" are invalid.

B)is my reason why i want remove mages forever not templars and it is proven by many magical incydents...

Why you want to remove mages forever is meaningless, mainly because it's not possible. You'd be fighting a neverending (and losing) battle with the general public. You could burn down entire towns, and snatch infants from their families and put every child you see through some grueling test or randomly execute them outright and you'd never get enough of them. The Circle system is a far more viable solution than trying to kill them all outright.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 février 2014 - 08:53 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Chop

1.When a lot peoples in region or group is corrupted it is high-corrupted region same was with circle especially when 9 on 10 mages that we saw were corrupted it is horrible score and proving that group is corrupted... simple and now non-mages and world can handle too much corrupted mages (whether it human flaws or becoming abomnation) action of single mage even unintentional tend lead to big disasters so at best such mage is danger on local scale at worst on world scale... so yes with that scores and in mage case that condemn and not hundreds you are making that up in your mind i use statistic we saw and you using headcanon that hundreds of mages were innocent...

2.Agreeing with perspective of insane woman is insane agreeing with actions of insane womans may or not be insane here wasn't.There is no chicken or the egg argument humans are corrupted and mages are humans but such humans that corruption cost too much...

3.That wasn't my point sane would use RoA because mages were corrupted in kirkwall high rates of corruption were speaking that clearly meredith had own reasons in her insanity but her actions were proper to her position at least in that case...

4.Yes but those thing are opinions when such statement was in investigate (if i renember) not express opinion...

KaiserShep wrote...

TheKomandorShepard wrote...
A)
is reason why templars did it and they were right (well we don't
discuss meredith motivation only templar order as whole) and they
justified in law doing that (don't take me as lawful person but im
showing templar point)

No, they weren't. Whatever the
reason the Right's invocation may have been suggested before The Last
Straw, it was clear that many innocent people were being condemned for
the action of a known apostate who has no association with the Circle
whatsoever. The Templars are supposed to protect the mages within the
Circle just as they are supposed to protect the public from them, and
the Right of Annulment is supposed to be a last resort if the Circle is
out of control. There was no indication whatsoever that it was. Any
reasoning to the effect of "but they can do this, or can do that" or
"I suspect the Enchanter of A, B and C" are invalid.

B)is my reason why i want remove mages forever not templars and it is proven by many magical incydents...

Why
you want to remove mages forever is meaningless, mainly because it's
not possible. You'd be fighting a neverending (and losing) battle with
the general public. You could burn down entire towns, and snatch infants
from their families and put every child you see through some grueling
test or randomly execute them outright and you'd never get enough of
them. The Circle system is a far more viable solution than trying to
kill them all outright.

1.Bullsack first we don't know weather mages were "innocent" and as i said 9/10 that we saw weren't and now again you are using meredith reason behind that action not templar (and that was her reason before but it was refused by dumb elthina).And i don't agree main reason behind templars is protect world from mages if you think otherwise it rather naive as telling because in tevinter blood magic is banned by law they don't practice that with common acceptance same for murder in orlais...   and if roaring blood mages and abomnations before and during RoA aren't prove then again you are blinded by your naivety to put that lightly...

2.Yes it is possible and i said many times why it is.And not rly losing you made that up especially that we are talking about dark fantasy world and as i said teach something general public that this is wrong and thats right and they will follow that i mean most think that maker is good guy despite he said fu*** oh and have blight because of few magisters have nice fun... and most think about mages alread like about bad guys it isn't problem if you are in charge to change society standarts... and they are rather anti-magical now deal with that...
Bullcrap do i have to point every disaster caused by mages and numbers of mages that escaped circle even 8 times when circle is solution?

[KaiserShep]

You can say something is possible all you like. Repetition doesn't bring that statement closer to the truth.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 février 2014 - 09:31 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

KaiserShep wrote...

You can say something is possible all you like. Repetition doesn't bring that statement closer to the truth.

Well yes because killing peoples is not allowed because gamemaster forbidden simple idealistic setting this wouldn't be possible cynical setting this is possible and you can get away with it guess what setting da is...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And here comes TKS with his usual dose of mage paranoia so extreme even Meredith in Act 3 looks sane in comparison.

[KaiserShep]

You can always practice by trying to wipe out every NPC in Grand Theft Auto.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

And here comes TKS with his usual dose of mage paranoia so extreme even Meredith in Act 3 looks sane in comparison.

Well perhaps me and meredith have paranoia but we are right in our paranoia as i said do i have write disaster caused by mages?

KaiserShep wrote...

You can always practice by trying to wipe out every NPC in Grand Theft Auto.

That winds tover gameplay rather story if we are talking about random crowds of peoples on the streets in witcher genocides aren't alien thing and they get away with it...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

And here comes TKS with his usual dose of mage paranoia so extreme even Meredith in Act 3 looks sane in comparison.

Well perhaps me and meredith have paranoia but we are right in our paranoia as i said do i have write disaster caused by mages?

Ah, you keep telling yourself that. *pats TKS on head* 

...

I'm sorry, that was mean of me. 

[TheLittleBird]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

And here comes TKS with his usual dose of mage paranoia so extreme even Meredith in Act 3 looks sane in comparison.

One look at the last page of this thread and I feel Meredith would become best friends with Orsino and love mages forever.

------
No offense, Komandor. I see where you're coming from, though I disagree with you on some parts. I feel there is something to be said for and against both sides.

Modifié par TheLittleBird, 17 février 2014 - 09:43 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Ah, you keep telling yourself that. *pats TKS on head* 

...

I'm sorry, that was mean of me. 

Yeah i was keep telling that to myself when mages were walking as abomnations or insane blood mages ups it turned that meredith was right even about orsino "abomnations galore" as hawke that put perfectly

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheLittleBird wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

And here comes TKS with his usual dose of mage paranoia so extreme even Meredith in Act 3 looks sane in comparison.

One look at the last page of this thread and I feel Meredith would become best friends with Orsino and love mages forever.

I can see it.

Meredith: *reads last page on this thread then looks at Orsino* Was I really like that?
Orsino: *nods* Yes, I'm afraid so, Knight Commander.
Meredith: I think I'm going to be ill. I have to get rid of this thing. *grabs Red Lyrium sword and throws it into lava* Now then, I apologize for all of that.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Ah, you keep telling yourself that. *pats TKS on head* 

...

I'm sorry, that was mean of me. 

Yeah i was keep telling that to myself when mages were walking as abomnations or insane blood mages ups it turned that meredith was right even about orsino "abomnations galore" as hawke that put perfectly

I take back my apology.

[Seboist]

I felt that Bioware's presentation of the conflict was pretty even, albeit due to all the key players either being morons and/or demon possessed/magic corrupted.

I tried to pursue a Witcher-esque path of neutrality and GTFO the city from these two groups of nutjobs but to no avail.

[TheLittleBird]

TheKomandorShepard wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Ah, you keep telling yourself that. *pats TKS on head* 

...

I'm sorry, that was mean of me. 

Yeah i was keep telling that to myself when mages were walking as abomnations or insane blood mages ups it turned that meredith was right even about orsino "abomnations galore" as hawke that put perfectly

Over-generalizing. I see your point and raise you a Bethany, a Wynne, hell, I would even give you Anders. I mean, the Templars drove him 'nuts'. They drove Orsino nuts. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I take back my apology.

Dark lords don't need apology they need power to kill those who stood against them

TheLittleBird wrote...

Over-generalizing. I see your point
and raise you a Bethany, a Wynne, hell, I would even give you Anders. I
mean, the Templars drove him 'nuts'. They drove Orsino nuts. 

My hawke who meet more abomnations during roa would argue

Yes poor anders and orsino they were living conditions worse than some childrens in somalia oh that expensive beds and meals terrible fate just terrible worse fate than death... yeah it is great that you have 2 examples search harder then maybe you will find even 3

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 17 février 2014 - 09:56 .