Well do you remember her death scene?
She dies exactly when she asks the maker for help
If there is any blessing she is not getting one.
Reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood when one of the villains insults God only to be blinded moments later by the Sun ensuring his death.
Reminds me of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood when one of the villains insults God only to be blinded moments later by the Sun ensuring his death.
There was only one decent Antagonist that entire series.
Fuhrer King Bradley 
If you're gonna suggest that the thing speaks for itself, then I have to say it's a really, really bad analogy. A troop of heroic warriors from a fantasy setting, like Grey Wardens, Ash Warriors, the Legion of the Dead, or the Templars are more than a match for any single mage in most circumstances, and no single mage has ever come near the destructive potential of a nuclear weapon.
Fail analogy is fail.
All right, i'll clarify it for you.
Immediate threat - likely the riflemen.
Potential amount of threat though is on the side of bomb.
Can the battalion be frightening and devastating? Sure, and often does. Far too often. But the few examples of what a bomb can do is enough to instill a far greater fear, than any battalion could.
Does a battalion require a belief/objective/training to act as a unified force instead of a whole bunch of individuals with their own short-time objectives? Thats how it usually works.
Does a bomb require special treatment from being used by the wrong hands (aka demons)? Oh yes it does, or the results would be devastating.
Can a single soldier be comparable with a bomb? Never, it requires a mass to achieve comparable destructive results (i am talking about normal commoner, not a heroic a-la Superman characters, like our alter-egos and their band, for the sake of gameover).
Can a battalion wreck more havoc, than a bomb does? Why yes, depending on circumstances, but again it requires a mass and a strong objective to do it.
You can continue with drawing further analogies, but if you are taking it too literally with thinking - no single mage can kill thousands like a bomb does, then you are on too straight and narrow for us to pursue this debate.
I always understood it this way: Orsino knew nothing about Quentin, when Hawke found him and the circle investigated his work, Orsino did not destroy his findings and kept it in case they might be useful in another incident. However it means he read them and he learned blood magic if he didn't knew how to do that before. Most mages know how to become a blood mage, they just don't become one.
The letter in Quentin's hideout was from Orsino - http://dragonage.wik...from_the_Circle
That nullifies your theory as well, as Templar's ending and Orsino's admission during the Last Straw.
The letter in Quentin's hideout was from Orsino - http://dragonage.wik...from_the_Circle
That nullifies your theory as well, as Templar's ending and Orsino's admission during the Last Straw.
Well there is no saying he willingly assisted murder as he could be just helping with his "research" without knowing what it really was. Quentin's research probably drove him a tad mad and to think he could bring back her wife.
This only links Orsino to assisting an apostate, nothing else. If the letter had a date we could draw more conclusions.
All right, i'll clarify it for you.
Immediate threat - likely the riflemen.
Potential amount of threat though is on the side of bomb.
Can the battalion be frightening and devastating? Sure, and often does. Far too often. But the few examples of what a bomb can do is enough to instill a far greater fear, than any battalion could.
Does a battalion require a belief/objective/training to act as a unified force instead of a whole bunch of individuals with their own short-time objectives? Thats how it usually works.
Does a bomb require special treatment from being used by the wrong hands (aka demons)? Oh yes it does, or the results would be devastating.
Can a single soldier be comparable with a bomb? Never, it requires a mass to achieve comparable destructive results (i am talking about normal commoner, not a heroic a-la Superman characters, like our alter-egos and their band, for the sake of gameover).
Can a battalion wreck more havoc, than a bomb does? Why yes, depending on circumstances, but again it requires a mass and a strong objective to do it.
You can continue with drawing further analogies, but if you are taking it too literally with thinking - no single mage can kill thousands like a bomb does, then you are on too straight and narrow for us to pursue this debate.
There is one major flaw in your comparison. A bomb is a weapon, and like any weapon if it is not used by somebody, nothing happens.
Well there is no saying he willingly assisted murder as he could be just helping with his "research" without knowing what it really was. Quentin's research probably drove him a tad mad and to think he could bring back her wife.
This only links Orsino to assisting an apostate, nothing else. If the letter had a date we could draw more conclusions.
He knew what Quentin was doing
Well there is no saying he willingly assisted murder as he could be just helping with his "research" without knowing what it really was. Quentin's research probably drove him a tad mad and to think he could bring back her wife.
This only links Orsino to assisting an apostate, nothing else. If the letter had a date we could draw more conclusions.
Orsino admits he knew what Quentin was doing in the Templar ending.
Yes, he did
Well there is no saying he willingly assisted murder as he could be just helping with his "research" without knowing what it really was. Quentin's research probably drove him a tad mad and to think he could bring back her wife.
This only links Orsino to assisting an apostate, nothing else. If the letter had a date we could draw more conclusions.
OR it's entirely possible that he knew about Quentin's crimes. In Hawke's place, I would have had the Circle turned upside down, because I'd have the entire place tossed up by Templars if someone murdered my mother, without a second thought. That being said, ANY connection between the murderer and someone from the Circle requires immediate attention. I am very much inclined to assume the worst, especially when dealing with the welfare of family members. If Bethany is alive and in the Circle, I'd also have to consider her proximity to a possible conspirator to a rather heinous string of murders.
Yeah, Orsino knew exactly what Quentin was up too. How else do you think he knew how to fuse bodies to create a new being?
Quinten. One mage. And you don't know the extent of Orsino's involvement beyond the books nor when he sent that letter in the first place.
Make up whatever you please though.
Not knowing the extent simply means that it must be investigated to determine just how far that connection goes. A letter from the Circle pertaining to the very thing used for his serial murder is probable cause to investigate the Circle.
Yeah, Orsino knew exactly what Quentin was up too. How else do you think he knew how to fuse bodies to create a new being?
We have a winner. I am pro mage, but I always wondered if orsinus defied meredith because of the harrassement or because he was a bloodmage.
I'm inclined to lean on his defiance being one of covering his own harvesting derriere.
In that case the real problem is ,both sides were fooled by a couple of 2 psycopath, into starting a war.
Meredith and Orsinus
Lambert and Adrian
In that case the real problem is ,both sides were fooled by a couple of 2 psycopath, into starting a war.
Meredith and Orsinus
Lambert and Adrian
Ah, if it would be so simple to lock each couple and let them have their way with each other 
Cage match between the first red templar and the harvester? I'd pay good coin for that bout.
The problem is, the circle system doesn´t work, because those in charge let to many things slide, until it is to late and they are driven into a war. And some mages still become abominations, despite the fact they are controlled and observed 24/7. They claim to deal with the threat, but in reality they are causing it. And mages willing to commit atrocities are only found once they committed atrocities. This whole war could have been stopped by killing two templars and two mages before it started. But nobody was able to realize the threat.
The problem is, the circle system doesn´t work, because those in charge let to many things slide, until it is to late and they are driven into a war. And some mages still become abominations, despite the fact they are controlled and observed 24/7. They claim to deal with the threat, but in reality they are causing it. And mages willing to commit atrocities are only found once they committed atrocities. This whole war could have been stopped by killing two templars and two mages before it started. But nobody was able to realize the threat.
Is that a problem with the system, or is it a problem with "those in charge"?
Is that a problem with the system, or is it a problem with "those in charge"?
1.
The system, because the system controls who is in charge. If the system wouldn´t be like enslave mages and in case of doubt kill the mage and let the templar go, someone would have realized the fact, that the templars in charge are insane.
2.
Everytime there is an abomination, the templars cry murder and hope nobody realizes the fact, they should have stopped the abomination from happening in the first place. Which happens quite often in DAO and DA 2. They just kill, but fail to protect.
1.
The system, because the system controls who is in charge. If the system wouldn´t be like enslave mages and in case of doubt kill the mage and let the templar go, someone would have realized the fact, that the templars in charge are insane.
2.
Everytime there is an abomination, the templars cry murder and hope nobody realizes the fact, they should have stopped the abomination from happening in the first place. Which happens quite often in DAO and DA 2. They just kill, but fail to protect.
And yet, the Chantry managed to get this far without a humongous mage-Templar war.
If people coexisted peacefully (if not happily) for hundreds of years under the same system, and then failed to do so abruptly, the problem must lie with the people, not the system.
This doesn't mean that the system never had any effect on people's actions, and it doesn't mean that the system is perfect as it was and didn't need to be reformed or whatever. If Meredith didn't have the power she held as Knight-Commander, for instance, it's difficult to imagine her backing the mages up against the wall like she did. But that's the thing: there've been plenty of Knight-Commanders throughout history, and Meredith was the only one who abused her power so far as to start a continental war.
You yourself said that if you could have killed off just four people - Meredith, Orsino, Adrian, and Lambert - there would have been no war. Those are individuals, not manifestations of the system. You also said that the two sides would not have fought if they had not been 'tricked' by these 'psychopaths' into starting the war. Well: isn't that actually a good aspect of the system, not a bad one?
And yet, the Chantry managed to get this far without a humongous mage-Templar war.
If people coexisted peacefully (if not happily) for hundreds of years under the same system, and then failed to do so abruptly, the problem must lie with the people, not the system.
This doesn't mean that the system never had any effect on people's actions, and it doesn't mean that the system is perfect as it was and didn't need to be reformed or whatever. If Meredith didn't have the power she held as Knight-Commander, for instance, it's difficult to imagine her backing the mages up against the wall like she did. But that's the thing: there've been plenty of Knight-Commanders throughout history, and Meredith was the only one who abused her power so far as to start a continental war.
You yourself said that if you could have killed off just four people - Meredith, Orsino, Adrian, and Lambert - there would have been no war. Those are individuals, not manifestations of the system. You also said that the two sides would not have fought if they had not been 'tricked' by these 'psychopaths' into starting the war. Well: isn't that actually a good aspect of the system, not a bad one?
But how can a system build to protect work, if it failes to protect time and again. And if people with such obvious flaws can get into positions of power. It is not like these problems started to happen 2 years ago. From the beginning of the circles till today the means to oppress mages have increased slowly but surely. For example the right of annulment was added several hundered years after the founding of the circles. Mages weren´t made tranquill from the start, that is something the chantry added over time. Tensions were rising over hundreds of years. In the beginning mages and templars cooperated, now templars observe and punish. Some mages are even made tranquill for disagreeing with ( or protesting against) templars.
The circles were build to protect mages from being harrassed and murdered( because of tevinter) and to protect the population from apostates. The idea of the circles is something completely different from what is happening today. The system failed. Killing the four culprits might have averted the war for some time, but the inability of the circle system to act as it is supposed to act(protect mages and the population) would have led to the same outcome. Slavery never works, no matter how you call it(containment, etc.).
And there is no reason to not replace the circle system by suffiently trained police officers to hunt down apostates and let the rest of the mages live in peace like normal citizens. Especially if these police officer have to answer to their own countries instead of one powerhungry organization like the chantry.
Don´t forget, they enslaved the elves as well. They just used a different excuse, religion. I cán´t fathom how terrified the people are by missionaries roaming the country, trying to convert everyone to believe in Fen Harell and the rest of the elven gods(sarcasm).
*yawn* 2:10 AM where I live, been roughly six hours since I was on, and not much changed beyond Mister JB entering the scene.
I'll just exit stage-left until I wake up in the morning.
As I said, Orsino has never struck me as sensible villain in DA2.
One of 2 things, either they didn't fully develope him or it was a change and originally whoever was scheduled to blow up the chantry would have made sense.
Of course if they had made or sino the one who blew up chanrey it would have made more sense.
I agree.
Retour en haut