8640 réponses à ce sujet

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

How is the circle slavery? mages live in luxury & are well educated compared to regular peasants but people make out their lives are hell just because they have templar guards.

[Xilizhra]

3. The response to this would be that the circles have functioned well until recently for a millenium.

Orana: "Everything was fine until today!"
Fenris: "It wasn't. You just didn't know any better."

 

4. Well, considering Flemeth is an abomination....

Witch Hunt makes it quite clear that she isn't. Or human at all.

[Master Warder Z_]

How is the circle slavery? mages live in luxury & are well educated compared to regular peasants but people make out their lives are hell just because they have templar guards.

 

Note its only a handful of mages that even compare it to that, and those aren't exactly smart/stable.

 

I don't take it overly seriously.

[Master Warder Z_]

Orana: "Everything was fine until today!"
Fenris: "It wasn't. You just didn't know any better."

 

 Really?

 

Your comparing literal, Binding Slavery with the Circle?

 

Ironically enough? The very folk you quoted were taken from the hands of guess who? An Imperium Mage.

 

._. Brilliant comparison.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

Note its only a handful of mages that even compare it to that, and those aren't exactly smart/stable.
 
I don't take it overly seriously.

Is abit annoying. what Tervinter does is slavery, the circle is more like a school then it is slavery.

[TheKomandorShepard]

That circle is slavery is mostly arguent for pro-mages who don't have any arguments so they have make up one well perhaps one day i will meet pro-mage with some real arguments instead pointing how abusive circles are and mages are enslaved...

[Xilizhra]

 Really?

 

Your comparing literal, Binding Slavery with the Circle?

 

Ironically enough? The very folk you quoted were taken from the hands of guess who? An Imperium Mage.

 

._. Brilliant comparison.

I'm trying to point out that it makes no sense to say "because there's only an independence movement now, the thing being rebelled against could never have been that bad!" There are many, many things that make humans stay in abusive systems and even rationalize them to themselves.

[wcholcombe]

Orana: "Everything was fine until today!"
Fenris: "It wasn't. You just didn't know any better."

 

 

 

Witch Hunt makes it quite clear that she isn't. Or human at all.

Ok, Orana was a magister slave, not in the circle, so that has about as much bearing as me quoting the drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket.

[wcholcombe]

I'm trying to point out that it makes no sense to say "because there's only an independence movement now, the thing being rebelled against could never have been that bad!" There are many, many things that make humans stay in abusive systems and even rationalize them to themselves.

I said it worked and personally there is plenty of evidence from DAO by itself to suggest the circle system functioned quite well prior to the lunacy of DA2 and Asunder.

[dzs Angel]

1. The subjugation of ferelden is called war and invasion.  It isn't enslavement. It is common practice in a midevil society when you conquer another one to remove the nobles of the previous society who don't swear allegiance to you with those who are loyal from your country as a reward for service. See William the Conqueror after the norman conquest in England in 1066.  It isn't enslavement.  Did you read stolen throne, none of them were enslaved.  They were driven off their land for failing to pay taxes.  Hey the orlisian ruler of ferelden was a horrible person, but what Orlais did in Ferelden isn't out of character for the time.

Please, the Chantry is not a tool of Orlais.  They established the circle system, they pay its cost, they administer it, and the circles are considered soverign territory of the Chantry, the other kingdoms agreed to this.

The Rivani are largely Andrastian.  Small rural communities use the seers, the nobility and Aristocracy are Chantry and support the circle system.  The Dalish are tribal nomads who don't have a circle or country anyway, and the Chasind are a bunch of barbarians that the Ferelden's historically hate more than the Orlesians..

BTW, using gameplay we have seen two dalish camps, with at least one seer becoming an abomination and the other could arguably be called one, at the very least a blood mage.  The chasind btw practice the harrowing and the mortality rate for possession among chasind apprentices is very high.

 

3. The response to this would be that the circles have functioned well until recently for a millenium.

 

4. Well, considering Flemeth is an abomination....

5. Yes, by all means lets worry about the abomination after he has already destroyed a village or 2.  News doesn't travel fast in this time period.  By the time news reached the templars or your police, an abomination would have been on the loose for possibly a month if it is in really remote areas.  Connor is able to wipe out an entire castle and major village of 200 people, imagine if the abomination is in a group of villages without soldiers and knights and such to contend with.

 

I am a middle ground person and the protemplars annoy me, but the abject refusal to see the risk posed by abominations by some promages continually amazes me.

 

By ya'lls logic we should all be allowed to own full auto machine guns and rocket launchers and we will deal with it when something bad happens.  I am pro gun and own about 15, but I don't think a civilian has any business owning either of those.

 

Are you trying to be wrong on purpose?

HEY!

 

We have the right to possess 60 caliber machine guns with massively over sized magazines and domestically owned land mines!

 

Its what the founding fathers wanted!

 

NRA for life, I do agree with this point of view.

 

Orana: "Everything was fine until today!"
Fenris: "It wasn't. You just didn't know any better."

 

 

 

Witch Hunt makes it quite clear that she isn't. Or human at all.

Excactly. BTW: Fenris fought to earn the right to wear the strypes.(stated by his sister, if you let her live)

[Master Warder Z_]

Ok, Orana was a magister slave, not in the circle, so that has about as much bearing as me quoting the drill instructor in Full Metal Jacket.

 

"You can't handle the truth!"-A Few Good Men, Jack Nicholson.

 

I mean if we are just advocating random quotes now for social memes to be comparable  to topic.

[dzs Angel]

"You can't handle the truth!"-A Few Good Men, Jack Nicholson.

 

I mean if we are just advocating random quotes now for social memes to be comparable  to topic.

Right again. People should be true to what they are.

[EmissaryofLies]

I'm trying to point out that it makes no sense to say "because there's only an independence movement now, the thing being rebelled against could never have been that bad!" There are many, many things that make humans stay in abusive systems and even rationalize them to themselves.

 

That and the fact that every single circle rebelled at the end of DA II regardless of the Hawke. If things were just so damn peachy why a mass exodus?

[TheKomandorShepard]

That and the fact that every single circle rebelled at the end of DA II regardless of the Hawke. If things were just so damn peachy why a mass exodus?

LoL only libertarians didn't things like they were every other group was fine with that...

[Xilizhra]

I said it worked and personally there is plenty of evidence from DAO by itself to suggest the circle system functioned quite well prior to the lunacy of DA2 and Asunder.

It functioned to the satisfaction of people in power, yes.

[Master Warder Z_]

That and the fact that every single circle rebelled at the end of DA II regardless of the Hawke. If things were just so damn peachy why a mass exodus?

 

Incorrect or rather not as you intended it to be correct anyway.

 

The Circles officially rebelled in 9:41 Dragon aka at the end of Asunder.

 

Until then only two circles had rebelled and both rebellions were put down, Kirkwall and the one in Rivain.

 

But as i am assuming you are referring to the conclusion of the integration of Varric, you are correct given that that was when the meeting between Seeker and Dwarf occurred.

[wcholcombe]

That and the fact that every single circle rebelled at the end of DA II regardless of the Hawke. If things were just so damn peachy why a mass exodus?

What part of prior to DA2 did you miss in my comment.  The circle system in DA2 and Asunder are completely incompatible with the Circles presented in The Calling, Stolen Throne, or DAO if that was a common situation to exist.  It is also stated in Asunder how much better life in the circle used to be by Rhys and the freedoms he enjoyed.

 

No sorry I am not going to throw out the baby with the bath water on a system that has worked for a millenium just because of the recent issues that have arisen over the stupidity of most of the poeple involved.  Orsino, Meredith, Anders, Lambert, Adrian, Fiona, and the casts of idiots who went along with them all need to be dropped into hole in the deep roads and have a qunari brood mother dropped on them. 

 

And yes I liked Fiona in The Calling, she was an idiot at the end of Asunder.

Lambert was a dogmatic zealot who couldn't see the abyss he was jumping into.  That and due to his history with the black divine, he completely ignores the part of his job involving protecting the Mages.

Adrian is a complete ends justify the means monster.  She is worse than the Templars she despises.

Meredith falls to her own madness and paranoia and is overcome by the idol. If she had done her job protecting the mages and punishing the abusive templars a lot could have been avoided.

Orsino is a blood magic practicing malificar who shelters blood mages and assists murderers by hiding them-Hell, if he had turned over the ones he sheltered Meredith would probably not seen blood mages everywhere because they would have been dealt with and Hawkes mother wouldn't be dead.

Anders is a jihadist suicide bomber.  I have the same opinion of him I have of the pieces of human filth who flew the planes on 9/11.

[wcholcombe]

As I wrote that last bit a thought did perculate in my mind.  I could actually see the black divine responsible for the current circle mayhem we have seen.

 

We know he is a blood mage. The lore says it and Lambert says it.  Lambert is highly irrational for someone as intelligent as he is.  Cole sense a dark power in him.

 

Who knows, maybe the black divine rewired lamberts head to help cause some of these issues.

 

Bah sorry off topic I know, but it jumped into my head.

[Xilizhra]

What part of prior to DA2 did you miss in my comment.  The circle system in DA2 and Asunder are completely incompatible with the Circles presented in The Calling, Stolen Throne, or DAO if that was a common situation to exist.  It is also stated in Asunder how much better life in the circle used to be by Rhys and the freedoms he enjoyed.

Not in the slightest. DAO only showed off one Circle, and it had plenty of problems itself.

 

Orsino is a blood magic practicing malificar who shelters blood mages and assists murderers by hiding them-Hell, if he had turned over the ones he sheltered Meredith would probably not seen blood mages everywhere because they would have been dealt with and Hawkes mother wouldn't be dead.

Blatantly false, otherwise he'd have known about Thrask's conspiracy.

[TheKomandorShepard]

What part of prior to DA2 did you miss in my comment.  The circle system in DA2 and Asunder are completely incompatible with the Circles presented in The Calling, Stolen Throne, or DAO if that was a common situation to exist.  It is also stated in Asunder how much better life in the circle used to be by Rhys and the freedoms he enjoyed.

 

No sorry I am not going to throw out the baby with the bath water on a system that has worked for a millenium just because of the recent issues that have arisen over the stupidity of most of the poeple involved.  Orsino, Meredith, Anders, Lambert, Adrian, Fiona, and the casts of idiots who went along with them all need to be dropped into hole in the deep roads and have a qunari brood mother dropped on them. 

 

And yes I liked Fiona in The Calling, she was an idiot at the end of Asunder.

Lambert was a dogmatic zealot who couldn't see the abyss he was jumping into.  That and due to his history with the black divine, he completely ignores the part of his job involving protecting the Mages.

Adrian is a complete ends justify the means monster.  She is worse than the Templars she despises.

Meredith falls to her own madness and paranoia and is overcome by the idol. If she had done her job protecting the mages and punishing the abusive templars a lot could have been avoided.

Orsino is a blood magic practicing malificar who shelters blood mages and assists murderers by hiding them-Hell, if he had turned over the ones he sheltered Meredith would probably not seen blood mages everywhere because they would have been dealt with and Hawkes mother wouldn't be dead.

Anders is a jihadist suicide bomber.  I have the same opinion of him I have of the pieces of human filth who flew the planes on 9/11.

 

First circle isn't to protect mages only to protect non-mages and thats they say that protect mages is equal with no blood magic in tevinter...

Lambert was there to stop war he almost did it but divine was corrupted and naive and freed mages that went against him and wanted start war she caused war when lambert save the day until divine came... 

I can agree that meredith was insane but her paranoia is something that templar should have dumb naive templars like thrask are best exaple why and yep she was correct mages were corrupted including their leader so she was doing her job...

[wcholcombe]

Not in the slightest. DAO only showed off one Circle, and it had plenty of problems itself.

 

 

 

Blatantly false, otherwise he'd have known about Thrask's conspiracy.

Xil, the only problems shown in the DAO circle was the Abominations.  Your distaste for harrowing/tranquility doesn't make it a problem.  The circle worked in DAO quite well.  Mages were protected, people were protected, abuses weren't demonstrated.  I am sorry your personal distaste for the realities of the situation doesn't mean it had problems. 

 

Heck Irving could take the enchanters on retreats, he didn't need Gregoirs approval to send Wynne with the Warden, etc.

 

And yes, Orsino supported and hid a murdering bloodmage who killed your mother.  Nothing false about that.  He practices blood magic at the end of the templar ending-that is a spell he would have had to learn, not just cut his arm and sling some blood around.

[EmissaryofLies]

What part of prior to DA2 did you miss in my comment.  The circle system in DA2 and Asunder are completely incompatible with the Circles presented in The Calling, Stolen Throne, or DAO if that was a common situation to exist.  It is also stated in Asunder how much better life in the circle used to be by Rhys and the freedoms he enjoyed.

 

No sorry I am not going to throw out the baby with the bath water on a system that has worked for a millenium just because of the recent issues that have arisen over the stupidity of most of the poeple involved.  Orsino, Meredith, Anders, Lambert, Adrian, Fiona, and the casts of idiots who went along with them all need to be dropped into hole in the deep roads and have a qunari brood mother dropped on them. 

 

And yes I liked Fiona in The Calling, she was an idiot at the end of Asunder.

Lambert was a dogmatic zealot who couldn't see the abyss he was jumping into.  That and due to his history with the black divine, he completely ignores the part of his job involving protecting the Mages.

Adrian is a complete ends justify the means monster.  She is worse than the Templars she despises.

Meredith falls to her own madness and paranoia and is overcome by the idol. If she had done her job protecting the mages and punishing the abusive templars a lot could have been avoided.

Orsino is a blood magic practicing malificar who shelters blood mages and assists murderers by hiding them-Hell, if he had turned over the ones he sheltered Meredith would probably not seen blood mages everywhere because they would have been dealt with and Hawkes mother wouldn't be dead.

Anders is a jihadist suicide bomber.  I have the same opinion of him I have of the pieces of human filth who flew the planes on 9/11.

 

That's good, wcholcombe. It sounds nice.

 

Bottomline: I am not for permanent internment. I am not for the Chantry's mage hating templars. I am not for the Chantry. I am not for the majority dominating and ENSLAVING the minority. Not saying that you necessarily are, just clarifying my position.

 

Reformation and Compromise sounds like paradise on a paper plate on a sunny beach. However, until those terms are specified I've no real lasting interest in such concepts.

[Master Warder Z_]

That's good, wcholcombe. It sounds nice.

 

Bottomline: I am not for permanent internment. I am not for the Chantry's mage hating templars. I am not for the Chantry. I am not for the majority dominating and ENSLAVING the minority. Not saying that you necessarily are, just clarifying my position.

 

Reformation and Compromise sounds like paradise on a paper plate on a sunny beach. However, until those terms are specified I've no real lasting interest in such concepts.

 

What's with the Mage line and Hyperbole?

 

Slavery this, Abuse that, Unconfirmed, rumors at best of things vaguely seen or mentioned.

[EmissaryofLies]

And yes, Orsino supported and hid a murdering bloodmage who killed your mother.  Nothing false about that.  He practices blood magic at the end of the templar ending-that is a spell he would have had to learn, not just cut his arm and sling some blood around.

 

What leads you to believe that the Harvester spell is reversable, i.e. that he practiced it?

 

What leads you to believe that he would lie about his experience with blood magic when the champion and Meredith herself are about to murder him?

 

Orsino supported Quentin until he found out about his abominable activities, as he says. Or you can believe that he's lying to you even as he's facing utter annihilation.

 

I will not say that Orsino played no part in things excalating between himself and the good KC. But there's no reason to believe that he's some shady nefarious blood mage supporter based on a single instance of correspondence that was vague.

 

 

 

 

[dzs Angel]

Xil, the only problems shown in the DAO circle was the Abominations.  Your distaste for harrowing/tranquility doesn't make it a problem.  The circle worked in DAO quite well.  Mages were protected, people were protected, abuses weren't demonstrated.  I am sorry your personal distaste for the realities of the situation doesn't mean it had problems. 

 

Heck Irving could take the enchanters on retreats, he didn't need Gregoirs approval to send Wynne with the Warden, etc.

 

And yes, Orsino supported and hid a murdering bloodmage who killed your mother.  Nothing false about that.  He practices blood magic at the end of the templar ending-that is a spell he would have had to learn, not just cut his arm and sling some blood around.

If the  circle system worked, why did so many mages follow Uldred instead of Irving. This whole crisis could have been averted if the majority of the mages would have agreed to Irvings point of view.  But as a matter of´fact Uldred managed to rally so many mages, he was able to create an uprising, thus commanding a force strong enough to defeat templars and loyal mages.

 

That's good, wcholcombe. It sounds nice.

 

Bottomline: I am not for permanent internment. I am not for the Chantry's mage hating templars. I am not for the Chantry. I am not for the majority dominating and ENSLAVING the minority. Not saying that you necessarily are, just clarifying my position.

 

Reformation and Compromise sounds like paradise on a paper plate on a sunny beach. However, until those terms are specified I've no real lasting interest in such concepts.