8640 réponses à ce sujet

[wcholcombe]

First circle isn't to protect mages only to protect non-mages and thats they say that protect mages is equal with no blood magic in tevinter...

Lambert was there to stop war he almost did it but divine was corrupted and naive and freed mages that went against him and wanted start war she caused war when lambert save the day until divine came... 

I can agree that meredith was insane but her paranoia is something that templar should have dumb naive templars like thrask are best exaple why and yep she was correct mages were corrupted including their leader so she was doing her job...

Lambert is  tool.  He had great potential, but acted like an idiot.

 

Wikia and Codex disagree with you on Templar duties: "Templars are sworn to protect the world from the dangers of magic, but they also protect mages from the outside world"

 

Lambert caused the dang war as much as anyone by coming in guns blazing and going after the Enchanters.  He could have waited until after their conclave and arrested Rhys.  The stinking vote would have meant nothing anyway even if it would have passed which Adrian was certain it wouldn't. Even at the end when everything had happened it took Rhys to push the vote over for independence.

 

If Meredith had been more concerned with controlling her Templars kirkwall might not have happened, but doubtful, I think Anders would have still gone terrorist on us.

[Master Warder Z_]

If the  circle system worked, why did so many mages follow Uldred instead of Irving. This whole crisis could have been averted if the majority of the mages would have agreed to Irvings point of view.  But as a matter of´fact Uldred managed to rally so many mages, he was able to create an uprising, thus commanding a force strong enough to defeat templars and loyal mages.

 

Actually its presumable to assume that the loyalty of the libertarians were the only one in question, Given that you only run into non libertarians in the form of abominations that were possessed by demons.

 

Also the fact you have to stoop to demon puppet rebellion to even cast doubt on the circle just reveals how weak and baseless the mage liberation line is.

 

Oh we led a rebellion led by a nutter who was possessed! Which one? The one who killed almost an entire circle or the one who killed defenseless priests?

 

 Sometimes i think the Circle is a tad bit extreme and then i look back on events and realize, it has to be that way because mages get notions like this and need to be put down.

[wcholcombe]

If the  circle system worked, why did so many mages follow Uldred instead of Irving. This whole crisis could have been averted if the majority of the mages would have agreed to Irvings point of view.  But as a matter of Uldred managed to rally so many mages, he was able to create an uprising, thus commanding a force strong enough to defeat templars and loyal mages.

They didn't. I just played the dang game.  Uldred recruited from among the apprentices and than basically stunned the rest of the enchanters and started turning his followers and others into abominations.

 

 

What leads you to believe that the Harvester spell is reversable, i.e. that he practiced it?

 

What leads you to believe that he would lie about his experience with blood magic when the champion and Meredith herself are about to murder him?

 

Orsino supported Quentin until he found out about his abominable activities, as he says. Or you can believe that he's lying to you even as he's facing utter annihilation.

 

I will not say that Orsino played no part in things excalating between himself and the good KC. But there's no reason to believe that he's some shady nefarious blood mage supporter based on a single instance of correspondence that was vague.

 

 

 

 

 

I have never said anything about permanent internment.  I have said on countless occasions I don't think trained mages should have to live in the towers.

 

My evidence is the harvester.  That isn't a spell you just pull out your rear.  Also, he hid quentin.  He knew what Quentin was and he didn't report him to the templars.  That makes him an accomplice to the murders.

[EmissaryofLies]

What's with the Mage line and Hyperbole?

 

Slavery this, Abuse that, Unconfirmed, rumors at best of things vaguely seen or mentioned.

 

Not a damned thing that I said was untrue.  Or does the Chantry need to consider more divine marches against Kirkwall when Meredith is largely to blame? Or do they need to wipe out another Darismund?

 

Does an Alrik need to illegally tranquil and rape more of his mage charges while the goons with him allow it? Does a mage need to be made tranquil based on a rumor like Jowan? Do more templar spies have to infilitrate the Grey Wardens to satisfy their slaver compulsions? Do more Andrastians need to kill mage children because they are blamed for something that went wrong in the village?

 

I stand by every single word that I typed.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lambert is  tool.  He had great potential, but acted like an idiot.

 

Wikia and Codex disagree with you on Templar duties: "Templars are sworn to protect the world from the dangers of magic, but they also protect mages from the outside world"

 

Lambert caused the dang war as much as anyone by coming in guns blazing and going after the Enchanters.  He could have waited until after their conclave and arrested Rhys.  The stinking vote would have meant nothing anyway even if it would have passed which Adrian was certain it wouldn't. Even at the end when everything had happened it took Rhys to push the vote over for independence.

 

If Meredith had been more concerned with controlling her Templars kirkwall might not have happened, but doubtful, I think Anders would have still gone terrorist on us.

 

Yeah tevinter have same line for blood magic and yet how reality looks and i think that you are to gullible when it comes about that what is present on some papers and well many are even lambert was in that trap when he was serving as tev templar...

 

Lambert isn't tool i don't know from where you have that but he owned divine until she betrayed him and owned and captured mages he stoped war then divine as i said betrayed him and what she did lead to war...

 

Not rly many mages wasn't on libertarian side but they were power hungry and and wanted more as everyone wynne was hated by many and seen as divine and chantry puppet they would lead to war besides he was there to arrest rhys who was toy for demon/strange and dangerous creature...

 

It would of coruse it would anders still would blow chantry and mages would be still be corrupted she had to deal with so much crap and do paper work when elthina was naive fool...

[The Baconer]

Lambert caused the dang war as much as anyone by coming in guns blazing and going after the Enchanters.

 

On the contrary, I don't see anything wrong with how he stopped the conclave.

 

His fatal error was trying to beat the Divine at her own game and having it blow up in his face.

[wcholcombe]

Yeah tevinter have same line for blood magic and yet how reality looks and i think that you are to gullible when it comes about that what is present on some papers and well many are even lambert was in that trap when he was serving as tev templar...

 

Lambert isn't tool i don't know from where you have that but he owned divine until she betrayed him and owned and captured mages he stoped war then divine as i said betrayed him and what she did lead to war...

 

Not rly many mages wasn't on libertarian side but they were power hungry and and wanted more as everyone wynne was hated by many and seen as divine and chantry puppet they would lead to war besides he was there to arrest rhys who was toy for demon/strange and dangerous creature...

 

It would of coruse it would anders still would blow chantry and mages would be still be corrupted she had to deal with so much crap and do paper work when elthina was naive fool...

 

Lambert was a tool because you don't break into a meaningless meeting and back the mages against a wall and play Adrians game when you could have simply arrested him after they had their meaningless powerless vote that would have meant nothing.

 

Adrian herself says that Fiona doesn't have the votes if Wynne doesn't call for independence.

[wcholcombe]

On the contrary, I don't see anything wrong with how he stopped the conclave.

 

His fatal error was trying to beat the Divine at her own game and having it blow up in his face.

Lambert was a tool because you don't break into a meaningless meeting and back the mages against a wall and play Adrians game when you could have simply arrested him after they had their meaningless powerless vote that would have meant nothing.

[azarhal]

Does a mage need to be made tranquil based on a rumor like Jowan?

 

Someone missed the "honey trap" in the Ferelden circle tower...

[dzs Angel]

They didn't. I just played the dang game.  Uldred recruited from among the apprentices and than basically stunned the rest of the enchanters and started turning his followers and others into abominations.

 

I have never said anything about permanent internment.  I have said on countless occasions I don't think trained mages should have to live in the towers.

 

My evidence is the harvester.  That isn't a spell you just pull out your rear.  Also, he hid quentin.  He knew what Quentin was and he didn't report him to the templars.  That makes him an accomplice to the murders.

 

The mages I fought weren´t apprentices. And besides Irvings friends no mage was stunned.

Not a damned thing that I said was untrue.  Or does the Chantry need to consider more divine marches against Kirkwall when Meredith is largely to blame? Or do they need to wipe out another Darismund?

 

Does an Alrik need to illegally tranquil and rape more of his mage charges while the goons with him allow it? Does a mage need to be made tranquil based on a rumor like Jowan? Do more templar spies have to infilitrate the Grey Wardens to satisfy their slaver compulsions? Do more Andrastians need to kill mage children because they are blamed for something that went wrong in the village?

 

I stand by every single word that I typed.

I hope you do

[TheKomandorShepard]

Lambert was a tool because you don't break into a meaningless meeting and back the mages against a wall and play Adrians game when you could have simply arrested him after they had their meaningless powerless vote that would have meant nothing.

 

Adrian herself says that Fiona doesn't have the votes if Wynne doesn't call for independence.

 

Not at all first meeting wasn't meaningless mages were trying brake from the chantry and templars so yep he had every right to intervene ,second he was dangerous person controled by dangerous demon/thing so well who know what he would do... third lambert won so he stoped war , four divine was naive and corrupted so overthrowing her would stop damage caused by her naivety of course if we assume that she didn't wanted start war because she wants throw world into chaos in both cases she need to be stoped... and nope that doesn't make him tool only thinking person and seeing what is reality unlike every other person in that book who live in rainbow tale... 

 

And again wynne is hated among most mages so...

[EmissaryofLies]

 

I have never said anything about permanent internment.  I have said on countless occasions I don't think trained mages should have to live in the towers.

 

My evidence is the harvester.  That isn't a spell you just pull out your rear.  Also, he hid quentin.  He knew what Quentin was and he didn't report him to the templars.  That makes him an accomplice to the murders.

 

I am glad that I did not say that you did either.

 

Still does not change the fact that the spell is more than likely not reversible. Also to a Hawke that sides with Meredith she practically BEGS the PC to tell her that Orsino was involved in the midnight meetings. Oh and she also sent for the annulment to Val Royeaux before Anders did his thing. The fact that she called for the Right of Annulment not a minute after the GC goes up in smoke does not lend credence to her reasonability with mages.

 

Explain to me, exactly why Orsino should be bringing anything in regard to mage misbehavior to Knight Commander 'Kill Them All' ?

 

Oh wait, you can say that it happened in Act II, I'll grant that. My argument still applies. She threatens a mage Hawke right off the bat if you do not follow her commands during the last quest of Act II. She has a tranquil assistant, more and more tranquils are popping up in Act II where she lives. She looks the other way while Karras and Alrik do whatever they please and Orsino is supposed to bring incriminating evidence or evidence at all to this person?

 

Extremely risky gambit. Orsino has an office right beside Meredith, I daresay few people know her better. I don't blame him not wanting to risk all of his charges' lives to turn in Quentin.

[Master Warder Z_]

Not a damned thing that I said was untrue.  Or does the Chantry need to consider more divine marches against Kirkwall when Meredith is largely to blame? Or do they need to wipe out another Darismund?

 

Does an Alrik need to illegally tranquil and rape more of his mage charges while the goons with him allow it? Does a mage need to be made tranquil based on a rumor like Jowan? Do more templar spies have to infilitrate the Grey Wardens to satisfy their slaver compulsions? Do more Andrastians need to kill mage children because they are blamed for something that went wrong in the village?

 

I stand by every single word that I typed.

 

Those within Darismund brought it upon themselves, you think rocking the boat after Kirkwall is smart? Them trying to rebel was about the same as playing chicken with a tank. And Orsino and Anders are just as much to blame as Meredith :/ The mages of Kirkwall weren't saints and trying to paint them as victims is laughable.

 

Alrik to date has only done so once, and that was only according to Anders, presumably i'd argue that consorting with an Apostate is a crime worthy of tranquilty and thus Karl's was justified. and he didn't even rape, her made a playful bit of innuendo which you can interpret that way.

 

What does the Gray Warden bit have to do with anything we are discussing here? Are you just that low on ammunition? And Mage children, Again Hyperbole and unsubstantiated. Assuming you go by what a handful of mages told you, that can vary depending what was done and how it was done. 

 

:/ You can support every word you typed, but to me its just a mess of propaganda and Rhetoric and every thing you just about claimed was either biased or unconfirmed.

 

[Master Warder Z_]

 And besides Irvings friends no mage was stunned.

 

 

Uh talk to the mage in the fade.

 

He plainly says Uldred let loose a bolt of energy that pinned the mages to the wall and then his fraternity buddies came in.

 

Aka none of the senior mages besides his own loony group were in on it, aka he was a minority voice, like they always are.

 

Bunch of nutters.

[renfrees]

I wonder, what would've become of Meredith, if she was a mage? She was a lunatic in charge, empowered with red lyrium, now imagine something like Orsino's power at her disposal as well. THAT would be a Kirkwall's show, not a ****** poor parody we saw at the end of ActIII.

[wcholcombe]

I wonder, what would've become of Meredith, if she was a mage? She was a lunatic in charge, empowered with red lyrium, now imagine something like Orsino's power at her disposal as well. THAT would be a Kirkwall's show, not a ****** poor parody we saw at the end of ActIII.

Anders. Because he basically is mage Meredith, they just choose not to have him be the end boss.

 

Seriously.  Anders-Justice  Meredith-Idol

Meredith Annuls the Circle   Anders blows up the chantry

Neither of them believe in compromise and refuse to see the views of others.

 

Anders would have made such a better evil mage than Orsino did.

[LobselVith8]

How is the circle slavery? mages live in luxury & are well educated compared to regular peasants but people make out their lives are hell just because they have templar guards.

 

Considering that some real life slaves were given fine clothes, an education, and were given accommodations that were better than some peasants would have ever experienced, none of those things negate the view of it as slavery.

[Master Warder Z_]

Considering that some real life slaves were given fine clothes, an education, and were given accommodations that were better than some peasants would have ever experienced, none of those things negate the view of it as slavery.

 

Despite the mage situation not fitting the definition of slavery?

 

Despite the Mage situation not being even vaguely comparable to slavery?

[wcholcombe]

I am glad that I did not say that you did either.

 

Still does not change the fact that the spell is more than likely not reversible. Also to a Hawke that sides with Meredith she practically BEGS the PC to tell her that Orsino was involved in the midnight meetings. Oh and she also sent for the annulment to Val Royeaux before Anders did his thing. The fact that she called for the Right of Annulment not a minute after the GC goes up in smoke does not lend credence to her reasonability with mages.

 

Explain to me, exactly why Orsino should be bringing anything in regard to mage misbehavior to Knight Commander 'Kill Them All' ?

 

Oh wait, you can say that it happened in Act II, I'll grant that. My argument still applies. She threatens a mage Hawke right off the bat if you do not follow her commands during the last quest of Act II. She has a tranquil assistant, more and more tranquils are popping up in Act II where she lives. She looks the other way while Karras and Alrik do whatever they please and Orsino is supposed to bring incriminating evidence or evidence at all to this person?

 

Extremely risky gambit. Orsino has an office right beside Meredith, I daresay few people know her better. I don't blame him not wanting to risk all of his charges' lives to turn in Quentin.

As she should, Mage Hawke is an apostate. It would be hugely hypocritical of her to like him as an apostate just because he is connected.  It is actually kind of dissappointing that Meredith doesn't throw down and arrest him at the start.

 

I have already said that she should have shut down those pieces of filth.  If he wants to protect the circle, yes not making it a target of suspicion for harboring blood mages would be a good start.

 

Quentin wasn't even in the circle.  Meredith would have appreciated the assistance. And heck, Elthina wasn't going to approve a right of Annulment over an apostate in kirkwall.

[Veruin]

Considering that some real life slaves were given fine clothes, an education, and were given accommodations that were better than some peasants would have ever experienced, none of those things negate the view of it as slavery.

Mages aren't forced to do anything that the mudanes aren't, disregarding education.

 

By definition the circles aren't slavery.

[Xilizhra]

Mages aren't forced to do anything that the mudanes aren't, disregarding education.

 

By definition the circles aren't slavery.

Well, aside from the choice of throwing oneself to a demon or horrible mental destruction.

[Master Warder Z_]

Mages aren't forced to do anything that the mudanes aren't, disregarding education.

 

By definition the circles aren't slavery.

 

I just pointed that out

 

 

Quentin wasn't even in the circle.  Meredith would have appreciated the assistance. And heck, Elthina wasn't going to approve a right of Annulment over an apostate in kirkwall.

 

I think that would have been a suitable way to remove Orsino from power and thus get rid of a good bit of the corruption of the circle in one go.

 

No need for the rite, Good way to wrap up DA 2 with the world still intact, but alas we can never you know, give Meredith the very obvious Orsino connection.

[Veruin]

I just pointed that out

And you said it while I was typing it.  No need to get feisty. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Well, aside from the choice of throwing oneself to a demon or horrible mental destruction.

 

A Choice is a choice.

 

Slaves aren't given any of those.

 

And Tranquility isn't so bad if you listen to the Tranquil, seems like a very mellow, uncomplicated existence.

[Master Warder Z_]

And you said it while I was typing it.  No need to get feisty. 

 

  I was stating we were in agreement.