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[Master Warder Z_]

So in other words, because you feel like it.  Fair enough my weird friend, fair enough.

 

In truth?

 

I did a basic explanation of my support of the Chantry a few days ago.

 

My first and foremost concern with them is that is a the singular institution under which the majority of Humans can align under a singular issue, aka it can become a very effective rallying point for certain notions or causes. That alone would be enough given i support uniformity and unification of the species, having a single voice to get the people to speak as one is something wonderful to me.

 

Secondly add in their good works, education and support of the poverty ridden and they provide enough services to be kept around merely for that.

 

Thirdly. Anti Qunari. i don't really need to elaborate here i don't believe.

 

There are a few more reasons but those are basically my personal musings on the existence of the Maker and Golden city.

[Divine Justinia V]

Then quit calling yourself God.  

 

Yet, you are pro-Chantry?  How in the name of the gods does that work?

 

If it wasn't for him I wouldn't have gotten delicious treats. Thank God.

[EmissaryofLies]

Cannot wait to see the Chantry go to war with the Qun.

[Divine Justinia V]

Cannot wait to see the Chantry go to war with the Qun.

 

They're a lot more alike then they think.

[Iron Fist]

Cannot wait to see the Chantry go to war with the Qun.

 

There will be blood. 

[Iron Fist]

They're a lot more alike then they think.

 

Yeah, but the Qun has been more successful in its goals.

[Dean_the_Young]

I suppose that speculation may have some merit but i'd be of the mind that having both factions bogged down for near on a century isn't doing either of them a favor in the terms of logistics, Both sides need commit fresh forces to the campaign, both sides constantly fighting over the same territory over and over again, seems me like an Alamo standpoint then any true training method but that's likely just my interpretation of it.

 

But where do you get that it is 'bogged down'? If Seheron is a low-effort conflict for both sides, or just the Qunari, then the drain on resources will be modest regardless of the length.

 

 

 

And i suppose that could also have merit, assuming they have the strength to successfully occupy the Imperium this time, it would make sense to do it while other Nations are busy, but i'd also point out the Imperium had no aid in driving back the Qunari from their shores last time either though.

 

 

They did, though- the Tevinter's gains against the Qunari came along with the Exalted Marches. Tevinter didn't make it's gains in a vacuum, but in the context of the rest of the continent fighting the Qunari across the Free Marches and elsewhere.

 

 

 

In Theory its denied as an Anti Qunari Launch Pad, i'd point out the Nobility are all followers of Adrastrian teachings and supporters of the Chantry though, so you do have the people with the wealth and resources to retake the North from the Oxmen in the position to do so if the situation arose.

 

 

 

If the nobility had firm control of the country, sure- but they don't. One of the primary hats of Rivain is that the Chant only has a modest influence, and that the urban areas are not representative or exerting control over the rural.

 

 

 

 

 

Mmm i suppose we will have to wait until more information is released to decide one way or another to see if this Seheron Gambit was anything ingenious on their part or no.

 

 

If there were a historical analogy, I'd probably compare it to the United Kingdom and Ireland during the British Empire. There was always resistance, but the costs of losing Ireland and seeing it dominated or serving another rival was too much of a disadvantage to tolerate.

[Grieving Natashina]

In truth?

 

I did a basic explanation of my support of the Chantry a few days ago.

 

My first and foremost concern with them is that is a the singular institution under which the majority of Humans can align under a singular issue, aka it can become a very effective rallying point for certain notions or causes. That alone would be enough given i support uniformity and unification of the species, having a single voice to get the people to speak as one is something wonderful to me.

 

Secondly add in their good works, education and support of the poverty ridden and they provide enough services to be kept around merely for that.

 

Thirdly. Anti Qunari. i don't really need to elaborate here i don't believe.

 

There are a few more reasons but those are basically my personal musings on the existence of the Maker and Golden city.

1) I don't like the idea or the concept that one religion is going to decide how all of humanity is going to think and act.  Much less one that who's stated goal is to pretty much take over the world.  "The Chant must be spread to the Four Corners of Thedas and then the Maker shall return."  While it is intended to be a benign and noble goal, it's been used and abused by (wo)men to gain power.  As has been proven, a central religion is not crucial to a united front.  I think that the Veil tears are going to help unite the nations of Thedas.  Before you say anything, even after the game I'm sure there is going to be long term effects on the Material world and the Veil.

 

Everyone should be free to decide what they believe in.  Each nation should be able to decide for itself. Your solution is really no better than the Qun, demanding everyone be the same way.  

 

2) No argument here.  That was one of my biggest problems with the end of Act 3 and a little fact that some of both sides choose to ignore.  Look, I don't hate the Chantry, but it's time to try to severely limit their political power.  They don't have to dictate over nations in order to help the poor, sick and needy.  Most nations will be willing to accept their help.  I see no need to demand it.

 

3) A lot of groups oppose the Qun.  While I respect your point here, that makes little difference to me.  I can't throw a stone in Thedas without some group or religion taking issue with the Qunari.

[EmissaryofLies]

They're a lot more alike then they think.

 

Indeed. They're practically made for each other.

 

Like Frank Underwood and Claire, i.e. House of Cards.

[Divine Justinia V]

Yeah, but the Qun has been more successful in its goals.

 

Maybe, but the Chantry seems more successful to me. They're not as abrupt about converting people, they know how to manipulate, an art that the Qunari have no patience for.

[Grieving Natashina]

Maybe, but the Chantry seems more successful to me. They're not as abrupt about converting people, they know how to manipulate, an art that the Qunari have no patience for.

Yeah, subtlety is not a Qunari strong suit.  No offense to Qunari fans, but I picture a Qunari rogue and my brain locks up.  I don't mean someone that's apart of the Qun as a rogue (ala Tallis,) but an actual Qunari sneaking around in combat.   I'm sure they have their own guerrilla type fighters in the Qun (i.e rogues,) but it still strikes me as funny.

[Iron Fist]

Maybe, but the Chantry seems more successful to me. They're not as abrupt about converting people, they know how to manipulate, an art that the Qunari have no patience for.

 

True. And the Chantry does offer a more user-friendly dogma.

 

But its institutional capacity has been hit hard with the advent of the war.

 

By the way, I'm not a Qun supporter. 

[Divine Justinia V]

Yeah, subtlety is not a Qunari strong suit.  No offense to Qunari fans, but I picture a Qunari rogue and my brain locks up.  I don't mean someone that's apart of the Qun as a rogue (ala Tallis,) but an actual Qunari sneaking around in combat.   I'm sure they have their own guerrilla type fighters in the Qun (i.e rogues,) but it still strikes me as funny.

 

Ugh, Tallis.. suddenly I have a bad taste in my mouth. Anyway..

 

I can't imagine a Rogue Qunari that's stealthy, and not even because of their size you know? Like the archer that killed Sister Patrice. He wasn't sneaky, he let himself be known while other assassins would never reveal their identity or make a spectacle.

[EmissaryofLies]

Yeah, subtlety is not a Qunari strong suit.  No offense to Qunari fans, but I picture a Qunari rogue and my brain locks up.  I don't mean someone that's apart of the Qun as a rogue (ala Tallis,) but an actual Qunari sneaking around in combat.   I'm sure they have their own guerrilla type fighters in the Qun (i.e rogues,) but it still strikes me as funny.

 

Oh you're sure. The fact that you never see them amongst Qunari in DA II is evidence of their presence.

 

They're just that damned good.

[AresKeith]

Ugh, Tallis.. suddenly I have a bad taste in my mouth. Anyway..

 

I can't imagine a Rogue Qunari that's stealthy, and not even because of their size you know? Like the archer that killed Sister Patrice. He wasn't sneaky, he let himself be known while other assassins would never reveal their identity or make a spectacle.

 

If we see a Stealthy Qunari rogue, the immersion would be destroyed lol

[Master Warder Z_]

But where do you get that it is 'bogged down'? If Seheron is a low-effort conflict for both sides, or just the Qunari, then the drain on resources will be modest regardless of the length.

 

 

They did, though- the Tevinter's gains against the Qunari came along with the Exalted Marches. Tevinter didn't make it's gains in a vacuum, but in the context of the rest of the continent fighting the Qunari across the Free Marches and elsewhere.

 

 

 

If the nobility had firm control of the country, sure- but they don't. One of the primary hats of Rivain is that the Chant only has a modest influence, and that the urban areas are not representative or exerting control over the rural.

 

 

 

 

 

If there were a historical analogy, I'd probably compare it to the United Kingdom and Ireland during the British Empire. There was always resistance, but the costs of losing Ireland and seeing it dominated or serving another rival was too much of a disadvantage to tolerate.

 

According to Fenris the fighting for the Island is quite fierce, if you add in Length and duration of the conflict and it me would be a safe assumption, an assumption none the less but a supportable one. Fierce Jungle Warfare tends to be bad for both sides engaging against each other.

 

I acknowledge that, and that was one of my main points of why the Qunari Wars ended with the Qunari in retreat and suing for peace from their Island. They couldn't fight the entire world at the same time.

 

True, But wealth tends to rally more hands to it then faith anyway in Thedas, Mercenaries are still soldiers.

 

I suppose that comparison has its merits.

[Divine Justinia V]

If we see a Stealthy Qunari rogue, the immersion would be destroyed lol

 

Lol right?

 

I picture the Templars being too afraid to even dare seize a Qunari apostate. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Ugh, Tallis.. suddenly I have a bad taste in my mouth. Anyway..

 

I can't imagine a Rogue Qunari that's stealthy, and not even because of their size you know? Like the archer that killed Sister Patrice. He wasn't sneaky, he let himself be known while other assassins would never reveal their identity or make a spectacle.

I think he let himself be shown on purpose.  He wanted Petrice to look him in the eye and know it was the Qunari that's delivering her death.  That the last thing she witnessed in that world was the sight of a stoic Qunari and his arrow between her eyes.  I thought that archer was a pretty BAMF.

 

Oh and us assassin/rogue types?  We have shown ourselves at times while our mark was dying, if it makes a point. 

[Dean_the_Young]

1) I don't like the idea or the concept that one religion is going to decide how all of humanity is going to think and act.  Much less one that who's stated goal is to pretty much take over the world.  "The Chant must be spread to the Four Corners of Thedas and then the Maker shall return."  While it is intended to be a benign and noble goal, it's been used and abused by (wo)men to gain power.  As has been proven, a central religion is not crucial to a united front.  I think that the Veil tears are going to help unite the nations of Thedas.  Before you say anything, even after the game I'm sure there is going to be long term effects on the Material world and the Veil.

 

Everyone should be free to decide what they believe in.  Each nation should be able to decide for itself. Your solution is really no better than the Qun, demanding everyone be the same way.  

 

Where has the Chantry tried to enforce a cultural monolith on everyone, though? Or even 'take over the world'?

 

The Chantry doesn't even rule over a nation, nor has it organized an Exalted March on expansionist principles in its entire history. The doctrine of spreading the Chant has not been implemented in anywhere near as totalitarian way as is raised here- it isn't some world domination goal.

 

Even in the most negative readings of history, the only point at which the Circle has organized a religious war against another religion would be the Dalish- and that's if you ignore or don't believe in any other context in the conflict.

 

The Chantry is a missionary religion, sure, but it has extremely little to support claims of being a 'convert or die' religion.

 

 

 

2) No argument here.  That was one of my biggest problems with the end of Act 3 and a little fact that some of both sides choose to ignore.  Look, I don't hate the Chantry, but it's time to try to severely limit their political power.  They don't have to dictate over nations in order to help the poor, sick and needy.  Most nations will be willing to accept their help.  I see no need to demand it.

 

 

Where has the Chantry been dictating over nations, though? It doesn't determine wars, or borders, or internal politics.

 

The only two fields the Chantry holds authority over nations is the Chantry itself, and the Circle system and jurisdiction of mage matters. And there's nothing in particular to suggest the kingdoms feel particularly upset at the internationalization and political neutralization of mages.

 

 

3) A lot of groups oppose the Qun.  While I respect your point here, that makes little difference to me.  I can't throw a stone in Thedas without some group or religion taking issue with the Qunari.

 

But you won't find another group or religion capable of organizing and international coalition on the same scale. International unity is the key to pushing back the Qunari, and the closest international agency would be the Wardens- a very, very distant second that neither has the popular support or mandate for anything outside the Darkspawn.

[Iron Fist]

I picture the Templars being too afraid to even dare seize a Qunari apostate. 

 

Ha! If I were a templar, I would seize lady Qunari apostates.  

 

Amazonian harem ftw.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah, subtlety is not a Qunari strong suit.  No offense to Qunari fans, but I picture a Qunari rogue and my brain locks up.  I don't mean someone that's apart of the Qun as a rogue (ala Tallis,) but an actual Qunari sneaking around in combat.   I'm sure they have their own guerrilla type fighters in the Qun (i.e rogues,) but it still strikes me as funny.

 

I'd think of them as Spetsnaz, personally.

[Daerog]

The Chantry itself may not do the "convert or die," but the Orlesians sure do.

 

Edit: Orlais is a very annoying nation. Plotting to take over a Circle in Fereldan, what? Not sure how that would have looked, "Oh, yes, we are pious and devout, we love the Chantry. We also like staging coups within Chantry institutions for secular goals... y'know, just for kicks."

 

I hope we can support Nevarra in DA:I.

[Master Warder Z_]

1) I don't like the idea or the concept that one religion is going to decide how all of humanity is going to think and act.  Much less one that who's stated goal is to pretty much take over the world.  "The Chant must be spread to the Four Corners of Thedas and then the Maker shall return."  While it is intended to be a benign and noble goal, it's been used and abused by (wo)men to gain power.  As has been proven, a central religion is not crucial to a united front.  I think that the Veil tears are going to help unite the nations of Thedas.  Before you say anything, even after the game I'm sure there is going to be long term effects on the Material world and the Veil.

 

Everyone should be free to decide what they believe in.  Each nation should be able to decide for itself. Your solution is really no better than the Qun, demanding everyone be the same way.  

 

2) No argument here.  That was one of my biggest problems with the end of Act 3 and a little fact that some of both sides choose to ignore.  Look, I don't hate the Chantry, but it's time to try to severely limit their political power.  They don't have to dictate over nations in order to help the poor, sick and needy.  Most nations will be willing to accept their help.  I see no need to demand it.

 

3) A lot of groups oppose the Qun.  While I respect your point here, that makes little difference to me.  I can't throw a stone in Thedas without some group or religion taking issue with the Qunari.

 

Well i suppose some of my reality based beliefs spill into this dogma but it really can't be helped, It happens to every one, people want modern day rights in Thedas, i want singular world governance.

 

Exactly, a singular world faith, Likely to be rapidly followed by a singular world governance. I say take advantage of it, turn Thedas into a proper Empire, Under Orlais or some one else i don't particularly care but it's time for unification. And my solution is different from the Qun in the fac that i will not dictate people to find their place in the system, the system will not act in that regard. Personal freedom will more or less exist as it can in a Feudalistic society.

 

United Temporarily Thedas has defeated the Qunari and the Blights, United Forever and Thedas will achieve its apex.

 

Course this likely means crushing economic sanctions and depressions for thus that resist, or massive wars engulfing the continent, but its for the greater good.

 

Lawful evil remember?

[Master Warder Z_]

The Chantry itself may not do the "convert or die," but the Orlesians sure do.

 

Odd? Orlais has begun several wars but not any to my knowledge for religion, Territory has been their main aim.

[dragonflight288]

Well, Lambart is supposedly his last known victim, but I doubt we've seen the last of him. 

 

But yeah, I can see how like Justice the spirit's time here and experiencing all the negative things in the World of the Living may have corrupted him somewhat. Perhaps that is a reason why spirits also tend to avoid our realm. They know that too long without a host or a host not pure in heart could corrupt them into demons.

 

And even then, it's never openly stated Lambert is dead. Only Cole appeared before him with a knife, then Lambert is MIA, and so too is Cole.

 

I genuinely think Lambert is possessed by Cole.