@TKS: Yeah, well...while I think aspects to Corypheus' story do make sense, I trust him no more than trust the Chantry in this regard. I take both the Chantry's version and Corypheus' with a very small grain of salt. I still think there is no proof that mages brought the Blights into the world. Speculation, assumption, yes. There is no concrete proof that it wasn't something else.
And no, no it isn't.
Have to post this whenever it comes up.
And he could have been lying his butt off. Besides, we don't know for certain if it was the mages that caused the Blight. I suspect an agent neither Fade spirit, demon or mage was largely behind this. Like, say...Dumat? To continue to blame the mages is pointless over 1000 years later. It's time to move on, rather than continuing this childish and destructive blame game.
@TKS: Yeah, well...while I think aspects to Corypheus' story do make sense, I trust him no more than trust the Chantry in this regard. I take both the Chantry's version and Corypheus' with a very small grain of salt. I still think there is no proof that mages brought the Blights into the world. Speculation, assumption, yes. There is no concrete proof that it wasn't something else.
And no, no it isn't.
There is no way that it is coincidence corry confirms chantry version at least partly that they went to black/golden city and guess who corry is a darkspawn and last thing he remember is black city so yep pretty much he was one of magisters that went to black city and became darkspawn even anders who were skeptical to chantry version had to admit it...
it doesn't matter who went there mages? why because they were power hungry as i said whether it was who cursed them or dumat did something or just they found something they shouldn't they went there and no one esle could besides mages and and ultimately they brought taint....
Cory confirmed the Chantry version? Huh.
The Chantry version says that the magisters blackened the City. Cory says it was blackened before they arrived.
So no, I'm not believing either of them. They both are more than ready to manipulate the truth to their own ends.
Oh and Anders didn't say he believed the Chantry. He only believed that Cory really a magister, not that Cory was 100% telling the truth about the Golden/Black City.
I don't know if you know that but thats how world works
Your point being?
There is no way that it is coincidence corry confirms chantry version at least partly that they went to black/golden city and guess who corry is a darkspawn and last thing he remember is black city so yep pretty much he was one of magisters that went to black city and became darkspawn even anders who were skeptical to chantry version had to admit it...
There is simply not enough known fact to logically decide which is the true version, you're letting your personal preferences cloud your judgement. This could be right, or it could be wrong. To state it so matter-of-fact is wrong, plain and simple.
Tevinter seems to be making it work. A society that operates with the efficiency of Tevinter without the rest of its infamous traits is something that should be sought after. How many nations and cities do the mundanes have? Too many, so very greedy, especially the Andrastrians.
But of course this is assuming that you do not place the flintbangers upon a pedestal and will only ever see them running things cus majority.
There are two assumptions here that I would point out are highly questionable.
First: is Tevinter really that efficient? That seems unclear to me. We don't know very much about the way the Empire works. Is it meaningfully more efficient than the other states of Thedas? Also, what does efficiency even mean?
Second: if Tevinter is more efficient, is this due to the use of blood magic or magocratic government in general, or is it due to factors that are not necessarily related to that? Is Tevinter efficient in spite of magocratic government or due to it?
Also, not a questionable assumption but a salient point I'd like to draw out: is efficiency the only aspect of government with which we should be concerned? If that efficiency comes with a price - say, the diminution or destruction of human rights - then is it worth it to pay that price? If Tevinter's magocracy is "efficient" yet that efficiency relies on widespread slave labor, why single out Tevinter as worthy of emulation?
Mundanes can have their Loghains all but help the darkspawn during a blight.They can have an institution like the White Chantry completely and utterly dehumanize mages to the point where there's a system to wipe them out and lobotomize them, take their kids away etc. But they get a pass because they don't need powers to do it?
Ignoring the fact the system is hardly like you described it, maybe they get a pass because they are trying to protect themselves exactly from mages who go "hey we can throw fireballs. That means we should rule the world."
What exactly are the Magisters protecting society from?
And he could have been lying his butt off. Besides, we don't know for certain if it was the mages that caused the Blight. I suspect an agent neither Fade spirit, demon or mage was largely behind this. Like, say...Dumat? To continue to blame the mages is pointless over 1000 years later. It's time to move on, rather than continuing this childish and destructive blame game.
Poor guy didn't even know what year it was. I doubt he knew of the debate over who started the Blights. I mean, his best source of knowledge were the Carta Dwarves he had enthralled, and Dwarves do not believe in the Chantry version.
But Corypheus' existence is proof that at least the part about them going to the Golden City was accurate, though brings up a new mystery of it already being black before they arrived. Personally, I don't blame the Tevinter magisters, at least not anymore than I blame Saren for the Reapers. They were simply tools of the Old Gods, and thus those seven are the ones I blame for the Blight.
Cory confirmed the Chantry version? Huh.
The Chantry version says that the magisters blackened the City. Cory says it was blackened before they arrived.
So no, I'm not believing either of them. They both are more than ready to manipulate the truth to their own ends.
Oh and Anders didn't say he believed the Chantry. He only believed that Cory was the real deal.
"There is no way that it is coincidence corry confirms chantry version at least partly"
So as i said whether it was maker or not it doesn't matter magisters went there and brought taint and corry as darkspawn and former magister that went to black/golden city should be pretty much prove...
Corry was confused and didn't know what is happening more even he didn't know who hawke was so well there is no point he would lie even more because that was monologue.
I don't belive in whole chantry version but part of it is true and you can only deal with it... 
Your point being?
That your screams are pointless it is how world works and there is no things that are right or wrong in reality and ultimately it all leads to might makes right to enforce someone views on others... 
There is simply not enough known fact to logically decide which is the true version, you're letting your personal preferences cloud your judgement. This could be right, or it could be wrong. To state it so matter-of-fact is wrong, plain and simple.
Hm? it is pretty clear is corry darkspawn and former magister that went to black/golden city yep and we know outside first darkspawn person can't become darkspawn at worst ghoul darkspawn are born and that he renembers as last thing black city well even more support this.Sure maker part doesn't have to be true but mages part is...
Poor guy didn't even know what year it was. I doubt he knew of the debate over who started the Blights. I mean, his best source of knowledge were the Carta Dwarves he had enthralled, and Dwarves do not believe in the Chantry version.
But Corypheus' existence is proof that at least the part about them going to the Golden City was accurate, though brings up a new mystery of it already being black before they arrived. Personally, I don't blame the Tevinter magisters, at least not anymore than I blame Saren for the Reapers. They were simply tools of the Old Gods, and thus those seven are the ones I blame for the Blight.
Any references to the Reapers in ME3 are going to sail right over my head, just so you know.
I didn't disagree that the mages went to the City. I just don't think they brought the Blight back to Thedas. I think that the Taint was starting to spread the moment they opened the door. Did they open the door to problems? Sure, but I don't think they brought the Taint back with from the Fade with them. I just think to say, "Well, the mages did it and that's it," is really overlooking over other key factors that could have been involved.
@TKS: You think that this makes the Chantry version true. As Divine has also stated, that's your opinion. That's fine to think that way. It still doesn't make it 100% fact. I can "deal" if WoG comes out telling me that the Chantry has the truth. What I can't "deal" with is you spouting your opinion as indisputable fact, when it isn't.
It's literally the farthest thing from "pretty clear", but okay TKS.
Any references to the Reapers in ME3 are going to sail right over my head, just so you know.
I didn't disagree that the mages went to the City. I just don't think they brought the Blight back to Thedas. I think that the Taint was starting to spread the moment they opened the door. I just think to say, "Well, the mages did it and that's it," is really overlooking over other key factors that could have been involved.
Saren was ME1.
It's literally the farthest thing from "pretty clear", but okay TKS.
Not rly? we know that magisters went ther and brought taint and were tainted thats all we know but is enough to say "mage did it"
And he could have been lying his butt off. Besides, we don't know for certain if it was the mages that caused the Blight. I suspect an agent neither Fade spirit, demon or mage was largely behind this. Like, say...Dumat? To continue to blame the mages is pointless over 1000 years later. It's time to move on, rather than continuing this childish and destructive blame game.
You know a funny thing about history?
After a few hundread years, all you have left is some book by some guy.
We are thought that Nero burned Rome. What proof do we have of it? Some guy wrote something down.
A thousand years of now, what undenying proof will future generation shave for most things we take for granted?
Yes really, we don't know anything FACTUAL. We know bits and pieces and snips. How many years has it been since it happened? Things get lost in translation. You can argue with me all you want, but when it comes down to it, whether you want to admit it or not, we just don't know.
and I'm done here because I'm not going to continue trying to push water uphill.
You know a funny thing about history?
After a few hundread years, all you have left is some book by some guy.
We are thought that Nero burned Rome. What proof do we have of it? Some guy wrote something down.
A thousand years of now, what undenying proof will future generation shave for most things we take for granted?
Huh, history has taught me that Nero didn't "fiddle while Rome burned" nor start the fire. There is more than a few accounts from the time that state that Nero opened his Emperial Gardens for his people.
One source? Questionable. Multiple sources? Much more likely.
So far, we have only two sources for the origins of the Blight: A very confused and half awake Corypheus, and the Chantry's. More accounts could shed some light into this.
There isn't anywhere in our history where we are directly punishing a group of people for something that they might have done 1000 years ago. That bit of shame belongs to the Chantry of Thedas.
I didn't disagree that the mages went to the City. I just don't think they brought the Blight back to Thedas. I think that the Taint was starting to spread the moment they opened the door. Did they open the door to problems? Sure, but I don't think they brought the Taint back with from the Fade with them. I just think to say, "Well, the mages did it and that's it," is really overlooking over other key factors that could have been involved.
Personally I think Dumat himself with the help of the Magisters did bring it
Yes really, we don't know anything FACTUAL. We know bits and pieces and snips. How many years has it been since it happened? Things get lost in translation. You can argue with me all you want, but when it comes down to it, whether you want to admit it or not, we just don't know.
and I'm done here because I'm not going to continue trying to push water uphill.
Yep we don't know whole as i said but we know enough to say that mages did it like it or not there is a lot questions about black city but that what brought darkspawn is answered... and history in that case is right even witness or rather perpetrator confirms this so...
There are two assumptions here that I would point out are highly questionable.
First: is Tevinter really that efficient? That seems unclear to me. We don't know very much about the way the Empire works. Is it meaningfully more efficient than the other states of Thedas? Also, what does efficiency even mean?
Efficient as in, it has not fulfilled what some would believe about free mages, i.e. that such a society is not technically possible without it ending badly. This is also the same Imperium that's currently at war with the Qunari, It's fair to say that they are in reasonable control of their society. If they were not, do you not believe that the Qunari would have defeated them?
Second: if Tevinter is more efficient, is this due to the use of blood magic or magocratic government in general, or is it due to factors that are not necessarily related to that? Is Tevinter efficient in spite of magocratic government or due to it?
First, I never claimed that it was 'more efficient'. Their success is due in large part to their slaves and their blood magic. Blood magic which is said to be corrupt/weaken the veil/summon demons. Not sure about your last point. But what's sure is that mages run that society and it is not in ruins.
Also, not a questionable assumption but a salient point I'd like to draw out: is efficiency the only aspect of government with which we should be concerned? If that efficiency comes with a price - say, the diminution or destruction of human rights - then is it worth it to pay that price? If Tevinter's magocracy is "efficient" yet that efficiency relies on widespread slave labor, why single out Tevinter as worthy of emulation?
You don't have to have mass blood magic rituals and slaves to emulate Tevinter. You only need a standing society ruled by mages. Which Tevinter is. They use extremely dangerous magic, yet they still stand. They are doing something correctly when it comes to handling magic.
Interestingly, the White Chantry doesn't seem to have a problem with 'means to an end' efficiency and championing human rights. The only rights that they seem to care for. They mirror Tevinter without the blood magic. I simply think it's possible to do the same with bm free mages.
Personally I think Dumat himself with the help of the Magisters did bring it
Yeah, that kind of backfired for ol' Dummy there.
You know a funny thing about history?
After a few hundread years, all you have left is some book by some guy.
We are thought that Nero burned Rome. What proof do we have of it? Some guy wrote something down.
A thousand years of now, what undenying proof will future generation shave for most things we take for granted?
"That's all history is; the best tales. The ones that last. Might as well be mine." - Varric
Saren was ME1.
Sovereign: "You are not Saren" -_-''
Ignoring the fact the system is hardly like you described it, maybe they get a pass because they are trying to protect themselves exactly from mages who go "hey we can throw fireballs. That means we should rule the world."
What exactly are the Magisters protecting society from?
It would appear to be the Qunari.
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