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[The Elder King]

The "have me want to not include Adrian so that no one can kill her" thing. But what would you do with her?

My point was just that pro-templars and pro-mages characters might die depending on certain choices, and Adrian might be one of those in the case she's in. I recalled that you once said that you're afraid o her being in-game for this reason, so I wanted to know if you changed opinion.
As for what I'd to Adrian, ideally I'd see her punished for her action (imprisonment). If not, support other mages to rise to power instead of her.

[Xilizhra]

My point was just that pro-templars and pro-mages characters might die depending on certain choices, and Adrian might be one of those in the case she's in. I recalled that you once said that you're afraid o her being in-game for this reason, so I wanted to know if you changed opinion.
As for what I'd to Adrian, ideally I'd see her punished for her action (imprisonment). If not, support other mages to rise to power instead of her.

I'm hoping that she proves to be a savvy military leader in contrast to being an overly hotheaded politician. Loghain in reverse order, if you will.

[Master Warder Z_]

My point was just that pro-templars and pro-mages characters might die depending on certain choices, and Adrian might be one of those in the case she's in. I recalled that you once said that you're afraid o her being in-game for this reason, so I wanted to know if you changed opinion.
As for what I'd to Adrian, ideally I'd see her punished for her action (imprisonment). If not, support other mages to rise to power instead of her.

 

I'm still hoping Fiona and Adrian appear in game, you know, a few stabs here and perhaps a public execution in the street there.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm hoping that she proves to be a savvy military leader in contrast to being an overly hotheaded politician. Loghain in reverse order, if you will.

 

And she just magically has knowledge of militant tactics and the art of war eh?

 

Loghain was self taught for the most part, but i doubt they keep books on how to form and operate an army in the circle

[LobselVith8]

But Lob, you are speculating that she knew he wanted to die, when everything we have seen in Asunder says she had no knowledge of that and wouldn't have had access to Pharamond anyway.

 

It was in retort to the idea that it would still be murder to kill Pharamond despite him wanting to die, which was the main contention I disagreed with. Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

 

I openly concede that the reader isn't given the absolute facts surrounding the demise of Pharamond. Given how this is starting to get quite a bit circular since I'm basically rephrasing the same statement repeatedly, perhaps we should move on.

[wcholcombe]

Cullen's decision not to stop Meredith's Right of Annulment when she specifically threatened the Champion is the primary issue for some people. I realize that Cullen is supposed to be the "middle ground" templar, but I don't think he comes across as one. It's the same for Leliana; it had to be pointed out to the developers that she came across as anti-mage for some players, and the developers (apparently) never picked up on that.

 

Adrian killed Pharamond; Anders destroyed the Kirkwall Chantry; Meredith condemned an entire population of people to die over an act they weren't responsible for, and Cullen only steps in when Hawke's life is on the line. That's going to cause problems for some people, even though I think it's simply an example of the creators dropping the ball (much like they did if the Champion warns Cullen about Anders' plot against the Chantry).

Leliana comes across as anti mage to people who are looking at the game from a pro mage perspective.  The same ones who largely see Greagoire as being as bad as Meredith.

 

Cullen grows from DAO to DA2, and continues to grow through DA2.  Him following along with the ROA after the Chantry explosion is a bit of a given, considering the emotional reaction that causes.  Also, I am not referring to Cullen saving Hawke:

 

If you side with the Templars this occurs:

"If Hawke sides with the templars, they will be asked to decide the fate of 3 mages who surrender. Cullen remarks that some mages were saved at the Fereldan Circle. If Hawke asks Cullen for an opinion, Cullen questions the necessity of annulling the Kirkwall Circle. He says the situation in Ferelden was much more dire and even then they saved some of the mages. In response, Meredith asks Cullen if he would take responsibility if it is proven that their prisoners are blood mages, Cullen answers that he believes that is what being a templar is about.  "

 

Cullen flat out states it is worth taking the risk that the mages are blood mages rather than killing them outright and whatsmore that it is the duty of a Templar to take that risk.

[Xilizhra]

Cullen flat out states it is worth taking the risk that the mages are blood mages rather than killing them outright and whatsmore that it is the duty of a Templar to take that risk.

He sees Tranquility as a mercy, despite many if not most mages disagreeing. The ones in question are almost certainly doomed either way.

[Master Warder Z_]

Leliana comes across as anti mage to people who are looking at the game from a pro mage perspective.  The same ones who largely see Greagoire as being as bad as Meredith.

 

Cullen grows from DAO to DA2, and continues to grow through DA2.  Him following along with the ROA after the Chantry explosion is a bit of a given, considering the emotional reaction that causes.  Also, I am not referring to Cullen saving Hawke:

 

If you side with the Templars this occurs:

"If Hawke sides with the templars, they will be asked to decide the fate of 3 mages who surrender. Cullen remarks that some mages were saved at the Fereldan Circle. If Hawke asks Cullen for an opinion, Cullen questions the necessity of annulling the Kirkwall Circle. He says the situation in Ferelden was much more dire and even then they saved some of the mages. In response, Meredith asks Cullen if he would take responsibility if it is proven that their prisoners are blood mages, Cullen answers that he believes that is what being a templar is about.  "

 

Cullen flat out states it is worth taking the risk that the mages are blood mages rather than killing them outright and whatsmore that it is the duty of a Templar to take that risk.

 

When he argued just for the opposite the prior game.

 

He sure did a 180 didn't he?

 

But given the events of what occurred there i don't hold his outbursts against him overly much.

[LobselVith8]

I'm hoping that she proves to be a savvy military leader in contrast to being an overly hotheaded politician. Loghain in reverse order, if you will.

 

Or The Warden from the Circle of Ferelden, who I'd assume would be putting what he (or she) learned into action when forced to conscript allies all across the kingdom to make up for the losses at Ostagar. Given the recent trailer, it seems mages and templars might be vying for territory or bases of operation, so I think the leaders of the fraternities would have to help lead the mages to either survive, or fight to defend themselves.

[AresKeith]

And she just magically has knowledge of militant tactics and the art of war eh?

Yea her being a military leader is pretty laughable

[Master Warder Z_]

He sees Tranquility as a mercy, despite many if not most mages disagreeing. The ones in question are almost certainly doomed either way.

 

 

I thought of this when i saw the word

[The Elder King]

I'm hoping that she proves to be a savvy military leader in contrast to being an overly hotheaded politician. Loghain in reverse order, if you will.

I don't know if it'll be possible. Circle mages don't have much military experience in general.
We'll see how the war is handled in DAI.   

I'm still hoping Fiona and Adrian appear in game, you know, a few stabs here and perhaps a public execution in the street there.

I don't really care if some templars and mages leaders are possibly killed based on our choices (I doubt they'd ever been killed in that fashion howewer) though I honestly doubt it'll happen. It'd possible that the war won't end in DAI, and we'll only see a part of the mages and templars at war.
I wish they'd release soon info about the various groups and organizations in the game.

[wcholcombe]

He sees Tranquility as a mercy, despite many if not most mages disagreeing. The ones in question are almost certainly doomed either way.

Ok Xil, you have a templar in game saying that mages don't need to be killed just because they are suspected of being blood mages during a ROA and states that it is the duty of a templar to risk sparing a possible blood mage rather than killing an innocent mage and your retort is a refernce to him viewing tranquility as a mercy.

 

Ok to him he probably would view it as a mercy.  He wouldn't want to have magic.

 

After Hawke's encounter with Ser Alrik in Act 2, Cullen will discuss the merits of the Rite of Tranquility, but will insist that he did not support Alrik's "Tranquil Solution" and give his opinion that the current system of the Harrowing and hunting down maleficarum is the best solution.

 

In addition he investigates the missing mages and such.  I think Cullen was a victim of no one can do anything but the hero plot device.

 

Oh yes and about his "Mages aren't human beings like you and me," comment for which he is vilified.  He is right, Cullen can't use magic so mages aren't  human beings like him.

 

oh and we also have this little tid bit and I am done.

 

Cullen maintains that the Templar Order's purpose is not only to protect the population from magic, but also to protect the mages that the templars are sworn to oversee.

[LobselVith8]

Leliana comes across as anti mage to people who are looking at the game from a pro mage perspective.  The same ones who largely see Greagoire as being as bad as Meredith.

 

Frankly, I think it had more to do with her tone and dialogue. Leliana is handled entirely differently in Asunder than she is in "Faith", and even some moderate fans looking at the schism from both sides admitted that her tone and phrases sounded anti-mage (the same ones who are willing to give Greagoir his due, and who even expressed how OOC they felt Greagoir was in the pre-Origins comic).

 

Cullen grows from DAO to DA2, and continues to grow through DA2.  Him following along with the ROA after the Chantry explosion is a bit of a given, considering the emotional reaction that causes.  Also, I am not referring to Cullen saving Hawke:

 

If you side with the Templars this occurs:

"If Hawke sides with the templars, they will be asked to decide the fate of 3 mages who surrender. Cullen remarks that some mages were saved at the Fereldan Circle. If Hawke asks Cullen for an opinion, Cullen questions the necessity of annulling the Kirkwall Circle. He says the situation in Ferelden was much more dire and even then they saved some of the mages. In response, Meredith asks Cullen if he would take responsibility if it is proven that their prisoners are blood mages, Cullen answers that he believes that is what being a templar is about.  "

 

Cullen flat out states it is worth taking the risk that the mages are blood mages rather than killing them outright and whatsmore that it is the duty of a Templar to take that risk.

 

I admit Cullen's defense of Hawke makes more sense when the player allies with Meredith (while it literally makes virtually no sense with the pro-mage Champion), but his involvement in Meredith's Right of Annulment is still going to be the main issue of contention for some people. Saving three mages, while hundreds more are being slaughtered because the Knight-Commander condemned them for the actions of one single man, is still the serious problem. Some people aren't willing to look past that, and I can understand why.

[eyezonlyii]

He sees Tranquility as a mercy, despite many if not most mages disagreeing. The ones in question are almost certainly doomed either way.

 

I consider myself pro mage (mages deserve to live, blah blah) but I consider Tranquility a mercy...over death at least. Sure you're emotionless, and without magic, but you're alive. 

 

And there is the perspective that some mages even ask to be made Tranquil. I understand the vehement distaste for the Rite, but it is ultimately their decision. The way the Tranquil are discussed by pro-mage posters reminds me of how some of the less sympathetic pro-Templars post about mages,.

[wcholcombe]

Or The Warden from the Circle of Ferelden, who I'd assume would be putting what he (or she) learned into action when forced to conscript allies all across the kingdom to make up for the losses at Ostagar. Given the recent trailer, it seems mages and templars might be vying for territory or bases of operation, so I think the leaders of the fraternities would have to help lead the mages to either survive, or fight to defend themselves.

Grey Warden Powers. The joining makes them excellent tactitions

 

Though in actuallity, there was very little politics or strategy involved in DAO from the Warden's perspective. It was mostly here are these treaties you signed a long time ago, oh you need help, help done, you help me.  Lets kill things in mass.

[AresKeith]

Didn't Rhys tell Adrian to leave also?

[eyezonlyii]

Frankly, I think it had more to do with her tone and dialogue. Leliana is handled entirely differently in Asunder than she is in "Faith", and even some moderate fans looking at the schism from both sides admitted that her tone and phrases sounded anti-mage (the same ones who are willing to give Greagoir his due, and who even expressed how OOC they felt Greagoir was in the pre-Origins comic).

 

 

I admit Cullen's defense of Hawke makes more sense when the player allies with Meredith (while it literally makes virtually no sense with the pro-mage Champion), but his involvement in Meredith's Right of Annulment is still going to be the main issue of contention for some people. Saving three mages, while hundreds more are being slaughtered because the Knight-Commander condemned them for the actions of one single man, is still the serious problem. Some people aren't willing to look past that, and I can understand why.

 

 

Those three mages chose not to fight however. It's not like the Templars stumbled into a room and decided not to cu them down. The mages specifically came to them to beg for their lives. In that instance, his judgement to save them makes sense, because they are not presenting themselves as threats.

[Hellion Rex]

Just gonna say that the Masked Empire has a couple readable chapters up on Amazon, if you all are interested.

[wcholcombe]

Frankly, I think it had more to do with her tone and dialogue. Leliana is handled entirely differently in Asunder than she is in "Faith", and even some moderate fans looking at the schism from both sides admitted that her tone and phrases sounded anti-mage (the same ones who are willing to give Greagoir his due, and who even expressed how OOC they felt Greagoir was in the pre-Origins comic).

 

 

I admit Cullen's defense of Hawke makes more sense when the player allies with Meredith (while it literally makes virtually no sense with the pro-mage Champion), but his involvement in Meredith's Right of Annulment is still going to be the main issue of contention for some people. Saving three mages, while hundreds more are being slaughtered because the Knight-Commander condemned them for the actions of one single man, is still the serious problem. Some people aren't willing to look past that, and I can understand why.

Here would lie my one issue with those same people.  I am willing to bet they, largely,  will defend tooth and nail what Anders did because it was necessary for how the mages were being treated, but won't allow at all for the experiences Cullen went through in DAO or the emotional affect of seeing the Grand Cleric and all those living in the Chantry blown up.

 

It is an emotional response not a logical one.  And again why I think that game screams that Anders should have been the Mage Bad Guy in DA2-I know he wasn't and wasn't meant to be, but damn the narrative would have worked better.

[LobselVith8]

I don't know if it'll be possible. Circle mages don't have much military experience in general.

 

I'm not so sure, given how the Circles have been involved in military campaigns. Ariane implies their involvement in the fall of the Dales. It's addressed how the Circles were involved in combating the darkspawn during the Blights, and against the Qunari attempts to conquer Thedas in the New Exalted Marches. Duncan wanted to get a mage for every contingent, because of how valuable he saw them. I don't think a Circle mage being an effective leader would be implausible.

[Xilizhra]

Ok Xil, you have a templar in game saying that mages don't need to be killed just because they are suspected of being blood mages during a ROA and states that it is the duty of a templar to risk sparing a possible blood mage rather than killing an innocent mage and your retort is a refernce to him viewing tranquility as a mercy.

 

Ok to him he probably would view it as a mercy.  He wouldn't want to have magic.

 

After Hawke's encounter with Ser Alrik in Act 2, Cullen will discuss the merits of the Rite of Tranquility, but will insist that he did not support Alrik's "Tranquil Solution" and give his opinion that the current system of the Harrowing and hunting down maleficarum is the best solution.

 

In addition he investigates the missing mages and such.  I think Cullen was a victim of no one can do anything but the hero plot device.

 

Oh yes and about his "Mages aren't human beings like you and me," comment for which he is vilified.  He is right, Cullen can't use magic so mages aren't  human beings like him.

 

oh and we also have this little tid bit and I am done.

 

Cullen maintains that the Templar Order's purpose is not only to protect the population from magic, but also to protect the mages that the templars are sworn to oversee.

My point is that what he sees as "sparing" is very probably, in this situation, not what the mages in question would see it as.

 

 

I consider myself pro mage (mages deserve to live, blah blah) but I consider Tranquility a mercy...over death at least. Sure you're emotionless, and without magic, but you're alive. 

 

And there is the perspective that some mages even ask to be made Tranquil. I understand the vehement distaste for the Rite, but it is ultimately their decision. The way the Tranquil are discussed by pro-mage posters reminds me of how some of the less sympathetic pro-Templars post about mages,.

It's constant subconscious torture, if you read Asunder.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'm not so sure, given how the Circles have been involved in military campaigns. Ariane implies their involvement in the fall of the Dales. It's addressed how the Circles were involved in combating the darkspawn during the Blights, and against the Qunari attempts to conquer Thedas in the New Exalted Marches. Duncan wanted to get a mage for every contingent, because of how valuable he saw them. I don't think a Circle mage being an effective leader would be implausible.

 

In all those roles though they were magically artillery, they weren't leading men, concerning themselves with logistical lines or attempting to maintain a war effort.

 

On the other hand the Templars have been a Military organization since their inception from the Inquisition, they exist as a standing army, The mages do not.

 

So i view the notion of mage war leaders as an exception not a norm.

[Hellion Rex]

I'm not so sure, given how the Circles have been involved in military campaigns. Ariane implies their involvement in the fall of the Dales. It's addressed how the Circles were involved in combating the darkspawn during the Blights, and against the Qunari attempts to conquer Thedas in the New Exalted Marches. Duncan wanted to get a mage for every contingent, because of how valuable he saw them. I don't think a Circle mage being an effective leader would be implausible.

Perhaps in the past, but there haven't been too many recent military conflicts that have involved Circle mages, short of the few sent from Kinloch Hold to help against the Blight.

[Master Warder Z_]

Perhaps in the past, but there haven't been too many recent military conflicts that have involved Circle mages, short of the few sent from Kinloch Hold to help against the Blight.

 

That too