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[wcholcombe]

This is why the Tevinter chantry is more believable than Orlais when it says Old Gods are responsible for blights not mages. Either old gods did something or something happened to them and they lured the mages into it. I mean the Magisters always listened to old gods why would it be different for them this time?

The Orlesian Chantry blames the old gods too, it just says it was the Magisters that unleashed the blight by going into the GC.

 

They are the same thing.  The only difference has been the recent change of the Tevinter Chantry about the role of magic.  They both use the same Chant of Light other then they interpret the phrase as "Magic should serve man not rule over him" differently.

 

Orlais says it means magic can't be in positions of power.

Tevinter says it just means you can't use magic to control people.

 

Other than that, Tevinter has male preists and divine Orlais has female preists and divine.

[Lulupab]

The Orlesian Chantry blames the old gods too, it just says it was the Magisters that unleashed the blight by going into the GC.

 

They are the same thing.  The only difference has been the recent change of the Tevinter Chantry about the role of magic.  They both use the same Chant of Light other then they interpret the phrase as "Magic should serve man not rule over him" differently.

 

Orlais says it means magic can't be in positions of power.

Tevinter says it just means you can't use magic to control people.

 

Other than that, Tevinter has male preists and divine Orlais has female preists and divine.

 

Well the Orlais chantry condemns all mages for blights whereas tevinter condemns old gods only because some Magisters that followed the gods blindly don't count for all mages.

 

Also the divine in Tevinter is a mage and a very strong one at that.

[renfrees]

This is why the Tevinter chantry is more believable than Orlais when it says Old Gods are responsible for blights not mages. Either old gods did something or something happened to them and they lured the mages into it. I mean the Magisters always listened to old gods why would it be different for them this time?

No matter of version, i still can't absolve them of responsibility for the Blight. As Eva was not absolved of responsibility for mankind being exiled from Eden, for being unable to resist temptation.

[wcholcombe]

1. If he could hear the voice of Dumat before he was sealed and Dumat killed, why then can he not hear the voice of the two remaining archdemons? Five blights have come and gone, so there are at least two old gods, and thus, at least, two more blights. 

 

2. And to uncover him they would need to pass through the deep roads and the magically resistant dwarven empire's patrols. 

1.  I don't know, but he is obviously surprised he can no longer hear the voice of Dumat as well. 

2.  No they don't.  The old gods are just buried.  In the Calling the darkspawn have tunneled out of the deep roads, they aren't in them anymore.  Maybe they tunneled down from the surface to Dumat, maybe those missing patrols, maybe they converted dwarves in the same way that the Architect converted the GWs and was planning on converting the entire surface of Thedas to darkspawn.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wasn't Fiona a senior Warden? She has led her fellows out of literal hell and alive. I can see her having leadership skills. Some falsely accuse her of being emotional but she is just relentless. We see that in calling too. Giving up is not a concept for her. I mean she said “I came to the Circle from the Grey Wardens because I saw something had to be done. In the Wardens, we learn to watch for our moment and seize it — and that moment is now.” That sounds like someone who would lead, not follow.

 

Also by default Fiona is a leader as grand enchanter, at least in a specific area.

Yes. Fiona will most likely be up there in the chain of command due top her experience with fighting battles.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Deep Roads are enormous and dwarves don't have full coverage of the entire continent worth of tunnels. If they did they would know where darkspawn came from. It would be easy for a bunch of tainted magisters to get lost there.

[wcholcombe]

Well the Orlais chantry condemns all mages for blights whereas tevinter condemns old gods only because some Magisters that followed the gods blindly don't count for all mages.

 

Also the divine in Tevinter is a mage and a very strong one at that.

WoT says they both have the same Chant of Light.  That is where the comdeming whomever comes from.  If they both recite the exact same chants, they are both teaching largely the same thing.  Imperial Chantry has some additions placing Hessarian as the most important of Andraste's disciples and that Andraste was just a prophet and all worship is centered on the maker not Andraste.  It doesn't mention anything about blaming the old gods and not magic.

 

Here is the wiki:

The principal teaching of the Imperial Chantry (and the one which led to the schism with the Andrastian Chantry), is their interpretation of the words, "magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." The magisters interpret this to mean that magic must serve the greater good, which they claim to be accomplished through Magi rule. The Tevinter priests altered the Chant to reflect that magic must be used in the service of all mankind for their prosperity and condemned the Chantry in Orlais. This allowed the magisters to reclaim their ancient authority and once again rule the Imperium. Meanwhile, the Chantry in Orlais remains firm in its belief that Magi are untrustworthy and should be controlled. Both Chantries condemn each other about their views on magic.

While the Chantry of Orlais believes that Andraste was divine, and was taken up to stand beside the Maker when she died, the Imperial Chantry maintains she was just a mortal prophet with considerable magical talent, even if she is a symbol of hope. While the Imperial Chantry still respects and honors Andraste considerably, they forbid the worship of her that is practiced in the Orlesian Chantry and instead focus only on worshiping the Maker.

[Master Warder Z_]

Yes. Fiona will most likely be up there in the chain of command due top her experience with fighting battles.

 

Do you know what Nilfgaard does to captive mages?

 

They parade them through Victory Square before they are drawn and quarted.

 

I think Orlais should embrace that little bit of trivia.

[Lulupab]

WoT says they both have the same Chant of Light.  That is where the comdeming whomever comes from.  If they both recite the exact same chants, they are both teaching largely the same thing.  Imperial Chantry has some additions placing Hessarian as the most important of Andraste's disciples and that Andraste was just a prophet and all worship is centered on the maker not Andraste.  It doesn't mention anything about blaming the old gods and not magic.

 

Here is the wiki:

The principal teaching of the Imperial Chantry (and the one which led to the schism with the Andrastian Chantry), is their interpretation of the words, "magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him." The magisters interpret this to mean that magic must serve the greater good, which they claim to be accomplished through Magi rule. The Tevinter priests altered the Chant to reflect that magic must be used in the service of all mankind for their prosperity and condemned the Chantry in Orlais. This allowed the magisters to reclaim their ancient authority and once again rule the Imperium. Meanwhile, the Chantry in Orlais remains firm in its belief that Magi are untrustworthy and should be controlled. Both Chantries condemn each other about their views on magic.

While the Chantry of Orlais believes that Andraste was divine, and was taken up to stand beside the Maker when she died, the Imperial Chantry maintains she was just a mortal prophet with considerable magical talent, even if she is a symbol of hope. While the Imperial Chantry still respects and honors Andraste considerably, they forbid the worship of her that is practiced in the Orlesian Chantry and instead focus only on worshiping the Maker.

"The Imperial Chantry accuses the Old Gods instead of ancient magisters of creating the darkspawn."

 

From:

http://dragonage.wik...vinter_Imperium

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Well if you are comparing Tevinter to Rome you should know that eastern Roman empire (Byzantine) is better comparison as devs stated.

 

Many European, particularly eastern European counties hated Byzantine but as soon as it fell disaster fell upon Europe as Byzantine was a wall against Ottoman Empire and as soon as it fell so did most of eastern Europe. There are many similarities between Constantinople (today known as Istanbul) and Minrathous too.  

 

Tevinter is a wall against Qunari too. Because of Tevinter the Qunari have no foothold on mainland Thedas and don't have the element of surprise. they are literally held in check. During all these years no nation of Thedas has offended Tevinter least of all attack it because they know this. Its kinda the enemy of my enemy is my friend situation but instead of friend Tevinter is "necessary" atm. 

I consider the Qunari's simply not wanting to attack yet to be holding them off more than Tevinter. The last time they wanted too they overtook 90+% of Tevinter and it was only an Exalted March that pushed them back. 

 

 

Also didn't the devs said "They are keeping Tevinter for future"? Its confirmed that we will not visit Tevinter in Inquisition therefore Tevinter is not crumbling anytime soon.

If we go there the next game, the next game will have to be within 60 years to stay as Dragon Age. 60 years at most is soon for empires. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

"The Imperial Chantry accuses the Old Gods instead of ancient magisters of creating the darkspawn."

 

From:

http://dragonage.wik...vinter_Imperium

 

That line isn't sourced.

[Master Warder Z_]

That line isn't sourced.

 

Is it a recent addition?

 

[Lulupab]

I consider the Qunari's simply not wanting to attack yet to be holding them off more than Tevinter. The last time they wanted too they overtook 90+% of Tevinter and it was only an Exalted March that pushed them back. 

 

 

If we go there the next game, the next game will have to be within 60 years to stay as Dragon Age. 60 years at most is soon for empires. 

 

Perhaps but Ironically same happened to Byzantine once. They lost all lands except Constantinople.

 

That line isn't sourced.

 

You are telling me? I tried editing it out but no luck. Its "locked". Why, I don't know.

[LobselVith8]

 

No, Gaspard wants to start a war to retake Ferelden and use that to unite the Templars and mages back together by using them against ferelden.

 

MoTE seems to portray circles and templars as far more nationalistic that has previously appeared to be the case.

 

And Felassan appears capable of putting any mage we have met not named Flemeth into a little box.

 

Gaspard, yes, he does want that. Celene prefers peace, bu also advises Leliana to tell the Divine to hurry up, because she can't control her nobles for much longer. Although she doesn't want to be known in history as the "Mad Empress" who marched "against her own people" (declaring war against templars and mages is not like declaring war to a foreign nation), in the end she will do what is best for the Empire.

 

When you stop to think about it, Gaspard is right. Wars unite people. Why does the tension between mages and templars rise now? Because there hasn't been a big war in a long time. During the Blights and the Qunari Wars mages, templars and mundanes were united against a common foe. But the Qunari Wars ended over 100 years ago, there has been no Blight in centuries and when the Fifth starts those two Wardens finish it in a year. Had DA:O not happened, Orlais would be now in war against the darkspawn and mages and templars would have more pressing matters to think about.

 

Gaspard wants to declare war on ferelden to make the mages and templars come back to peace.  This part of the book predates asunder and is just between DA2 and Asunder.  The mages and templars haven't had their falling out, it is mostly large numbers of apostates fleeing the circles I believe.  Gaspard hasn't started his rebellion yet, so the events of Asunder haven't all occurred  by what you read in the preview.

 

Exactly. Orlesian nobles are not stupid and both Gaspard and Celene suspect mages and templars are going to do something very stupid before a year. Gaspard's solution is to declare a nice war and make Orlais strong again, giving a good opportunity for mages and templars to serve the country instead of killing each other. Celene would prefer to give the Divine a chance to mend things, giving cue to the ball that marks the beginning of Asunder. Of course, all of this is just another part of The Game for them, a game for the Orlesian throne.

 

But we know how it's going to end. The ball will be suspended because of the assassination attempt, Gaspard will rebel, the elves will rebel, the mages and templars will break from the Chantry and everything will go to hell.

 

From what I've read so far (I got up to the 'feather' incident) it seems Gaspard has been eyeing the situation for a while. Getting some insight into why Orlais is in a civil war, and what might be the goals of the respective factions vying for the throne.

 

With everything in disarray, it's easy to see why the Inquisition becomes so vital to helping bring order to the chaos - with the player determining how that will take place.

[Grieving Natashina]

Is it a recent addition?

 

I checked the wiki edit date and no, it's not recent.

[Lulupab]

Digging in the wiki I came across this line from codex:

 

"And yet the Imperium survives. Whether with sword or magic, Tevinter remains a force to be reckoned with. Minrathous has been besieged by men, by Qunari, by Andraste herself, and never fallen."

 

Interesting

[LobselVith8]

The dwarves have no reason to specifically doubt anything in the Chantry account. They flat out admit they have no idea where the darkspawn came from. Their persecptive is confined to when and where they first encountered them. The history of Orzammar codex entries seem to indicate that the darkspawn didn't turn into the empire devouring horde that annihilated entire kingdoms until after they found Dumat. Caradin's golems came right in the middle of the First Blight, and at the time the codex entry says the dwarves were losing the war "slowly." It wasn't actually until centuries after the Battle of the Silent Plains that Orzammar was forced to close off the rest of the deep roads.

 

Not only that, but Caradin's journal actually blames the humans for unleashing the darkspawn.

 

Dragon isn't wrong. As per the historical entry by Shaper Czibor, "The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage."

 

However, I think Dragon's main point is that we don't know what the truth is. Despite Corypheus' admissions, there's no clarification about the City, about the taint, the first darkspawn, or anything of that nature.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Do you know what Nilfgaard does to captive mages?

 

They parade them through Victory Square before they are drawn and quarted.

 

I think Orlais should embrace that little bit of trivia.

Nilfgaard?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, it's almost impossible to tell where it came from. I think there's a fair amount of unsourced lines in the wiki that may have come from the Prima Guide. Or it could have just been speculation or something. I remember there used to be a date in the wiki for the Primeval Thaig that gave an actual minium age for it, but there was no known reference to that anywhere in the game so it was removed from the wiki.

[wcholcombe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I've read so far (I got up to the 'feather' incident) it seems Gaspard has been eyeing the situation for a while. Getting some insight into why Orlais is in a civil war, and what might be the goals of the respective factions vying for the throne.

 

With everything in disarray, it's easy to see why the Inquisition becomes so vital to helping bring order to the chaos - with the player determining how that will take place.

 

We know that Gaspard thought he would get the throne before Celene, he didn't even realize she was a rival for it until she outmannuvered him.  According to the preview.  So yes, I am sure he has been eyeing this move for a while, especially with their particular family histories.

[Grieving Natashina]

Nilfgaard?

I looked it up.  It's another Witcher reference, a reference to a city and a country in the series.

[The Elder King]

Nilfgaard?

It's the most powerful country of The Witcher universe.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dragon isn't wrong. As per the historical entry by Shaper Czibor, "The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage."

 

However, I think Dragon's main point is that we don't know what the truth is. Despite Corypheus' admissions, there's no clarification about the City, about the taint, the first darkspawn, or anything of that nature.

 

Yes, I know the dwarves don't believe the Chantry version of the origin of the darkspawn. But I was saying there isn't anything in their account of the story that they do know explicitly contradicts the Chantry version. Both could be competently accurate.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I looked it up.  It's another Witcher reference, a reference to a city and a country in the series.

Ah, no wonder I don't know it then. Won't touch that franchise with a thirty nine and a half foot pole.

 

Thank you for answering Natashina and Elder King.

[wcholcombe]

Dragon isn't wrong. As per the historical entry by Shaper Czibor, "The surfacers claim that the first darkspawn fell from heaven. They spin tales of magic and sin. But the Children of the Stone know better. The darkspawn rose up out of the earth. For it was in the Deep Roads they first appeared. Creatures in our own likeness, armed and armored, but with no more intelligence than tezpadam, bestial and savage."

 

However, I think Dragon's main point is that we don't know what the truth is. Despite Corypheus' admissions, there's no clarification about the City, about the taint, the first darkspawn, or anything of that nature.

That was my basic point.  Not that the dwarves say the surfacers are wrong, just that no one knows where they came from and WoT is clear that it states the first darkspawn appeared on the surface 15 years before Dumat and the darkspawn began attacking the deep roads.