8640 réponses à ce sujet

[EmissaryofLies]

Nothing to support this notion, nothing to even vaguely suggest it will be even happenstance and yet you continue to tout that nonsense.

 

._. And by convictions i suppose you mean baseless speculation

 

Why do you continue to tout your fallacious misguided garbage?

 

The military arm of the Chantry is gone, fact. Unless of course you’d like to count the few loyal seekers and if so, the arm is now a bleeding nub. So again, they are militarily in a very bad spot, fact.

 

The mages have rebelled and left their circles, another fact.

 

The normal temps are busy with the mages (which the Templars left the Chantry to pursue) and red Templars, educated guess; not baseless speculation as your ridiculous accusations would imply.

 

The Chantry can try to restore their status quo or let the chips fall where they may and be destroyed or possibly lose even more power, the latter part of that statement reaching the same end for the Chantry. They can seek aid, but Justinia is not very popular, so such aid and its power and quantity is I will grant, speculative.

 

They will have to bend one way or another to regain and maintain power, i.e. they need allies. And if they do not, why the hell are they looking for the Hawke and the Warden? But of course you can continue to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the obvious. Of which even Tethras believes to be true and Cassandra does not deny i.e. the Chantry is in pieces. 

 

And of course you’ll disagree. How new, exciting and exhilarating.

 

What did you address - the vague "we will deal when the time comes"? I described the impending and certain outcome for mages under the Qun, but you are free to stuff it into the back of your shelf and continue to play with the Chantry.

 

Won’t contest things being bad for mages under the Qun. Not a certainty that such will happen or is even likely to happen. Would love nothing more than to plant more bombs in more chantries, but if it’s possible to make them into an ally or point them elsewhere, it’s the smartest action to take. Need mo’ bodies for future war against the Qun or Magisters. Maybe somehow, both.

 

Let me be emphatic. If mages are presented with an option to take advantage of the Chantry in one way or another, that is the option that my PC will primarily take. If not, hopefully the PC will be allowed the option of forming an exalted march against the Chantry. If both options are presented, a coin flip will suffice. If neither options are presented, I will orchestrate an attack on my nearest Macy’s.

And I was not vague. The Qunari and Magisters have been in the background for quite a while now, that has not changed as of yet. Unless you know something that I do not.

 

Except he's not ignoring, but you keep bringing up the Chantry when nobody even mentioned them with your own bias view vendetta against them

 

Because I’m the only one with a vendetta or biased view. And don’t bother to quip back about how you didn’t say that, I’m well aware. I grow weary of such posturing.

 

 

 

 

 

This discussion is only serving to p!ss me off and I’ve stated my position about fifty times over. Nothing left to indicate, insinuate, imply or deny.

I'll leave y'all to it.

[The Elder King]

Evangeline is the worst.

Has anyone else pondered over the fact how Justice only seems to bother making itself manifest when mages are, supposedly, the victims?

Schizophrenic noble kills elven teenagers?
Justice: Zzzzz

Serial Killer mage?
Justice: Zzzzz

Blood mage kills his wife?
Justice: Zzzzz

Templars threaten mage, having not laid a hand on her?
Justice: THEY WILL DIE! I WILL KILL EVERY SINGLE TEMPLAR FOR THIS!

Isn't this more about Anders? Justice come out when Anders is angered and loses control. If Anders isn't angered (or angered enough) Justice doesn't come out.

[renfrees]

Isn't this more about Anders? Justice come out when Anders is angered and loses control. If Anders isn't angered (or angered enough) Justice doesn't come out.

So, Anders isn't angered enough even if you romanced him, when he sees serial killer butchering his lover's mother? Oh wait, the serial killer is a mage. Azzaza, i've got it.

[Xilizhra]

So, Anders isn't angered enough even if you romanced him, when he sees serial killer butchering his lover's mother? Oh wait, the serial killer is a mage. Azzaza, i've got it.

He also doesn't get angry enough to show up when templars are attacking mages in The Last Straw, so I'm going to say that it probably doesn't happen very often regardless.

[wcholcombe]

So, Anders isn't angered enough even if you romanced him, when he sees serial killer butchering his lover's mother? Oh wait, the serial killer is a mage. Azzaza, i've got it.

so basically Anders/Justice is Xil...that explains things.

 

I kid Xil I kid

[Master Warder Z_]

Why do you continue to tout your fallacious misguided garbage?

 

Why do you? I maintain my position but i also acknowledge it to be nothing more then that, I do not speak for Bioware nor do i claim otherwise, i have my speculations and that is all. You however have your own speculations and demand they be right in my eye? Also supporting the notion of Bioware casting aside a major faction in both the Novels, Comics and Games on a whim doesn't seem like a sound storyboard decision to me, too useful, too convenient and too big.

 

 

The military arm of the Chantry is gone, fact. Unless of course you’d like to count the few loyal seekers and if so, the arm is now a bleeding nub. So again, they are militarily in a very bad spot, fact.

 

 

See if this was a Nation or a Military organization this would actually be a legitimate weakness, overall though? The only reason it maintained its own Army was to manage the circles. Overall the Power of the Chantry is how deeply routed it is within the spirituality of the majority of Thedas, Do you think Chantry Templars or Seekers turned the tide against the Qunari or the Dalish? Or was it the vast host it could assemble under the banner of their god? 

 

 

The mages have rebelled and left their circles, another fact.

 

It's one i have never denied, But losing the circle doesn't overly harm the Chantry it self does it though? Yes you might get a fireball lobbed at the Grand Cathedral now sure, but the Circles are an institution themselves, and while Mages have been useful to the circle and the various kingdoms of Thedas, The Chantry isn't reliant upon them more so over then they would be on the Templars, its just another tool in an arsenal of many.

 

The true power of any church, is the Faith it can inspire.

 

 

The Chantry can try to restore their status quo or let the chips fall where they may and be destroyed or possibly lose even more power, the latter part of that statement reaching the same end for the Chantry. They can seek aid, but Justinia is not very popular, so such aid and its power and quantity is I will grant, speculative.

 

They won't be the only one's pushing for it or did you forget that Andraste's Faith is the Faith of Thedas? You can have various Sentiments about Magic, About the Chantry but overall? The Dogma of the Chantry, The chant they have preached for more then nine hundred years will see the status quo returned, Do you think civil rights can exist in a population that believes that certain aspects of the population don't require them? And does such as the numerical and cultural majority? I can point to SEVERAL real world alternatives were the very status quo you speak of, was returned when a minority attempted to shift it either through politics or violence, But the Middle east and Asia aside, I do grant you this.

 

The Power of the chantry is speculative at this point, i have argued many times that i believe they may be in schism as of DAI, we shall see.

 

 

They will have to bend one way or another to regain and maintain power, i.e. they need allies. And if they do not, why the hell are they looking for the Hawke and the Warden? But of course you can continue to stick your fingers in your ears and ignore the obvious. Of which even Tethras believes to be true and Cassandra does not deny i.e. the Chantry is in pieces. 

 

Most of those "Allies" have religious obligations to support them you realize? Or did you think it a historical fluke when the Chantry called forth an Exalted March, Nations aligned to serve that cause time and again? My point is this however, This will greatly be reliant just on how the Chantry is presented in DAI and if is still a singular institution or has broken into schism as i have longed suspected due to various comments in DA 2.

 

Furthermore labeling me to ignore the obvious is actually fairly humorous when you have basically overlooked much of Thedosian History in this little tangent.

[LobselVith8]

I always found that strange. Doesn't the golem creation process entail encasing a dwarf inside the golem, and then pouring liquid, molten liyrium inside?

That doesn't sound reverseable.

 

That was how I recalled the process of the Anvil, but I think Wynne wanted to see if it was possible, despite the chances likely being slim. It doesn't seem that the Imperium could provide a cure, so it may not be reversible. Unfortunate for Shale, and any pigeons that cross her path.

[Dean_the_Young]

Isn't this more about Anders? Justice come out when Anders is angered and loses control. If Anders isn't angered (or angered enough) Justice doesn't come out.

 

I don't even think it's that: just that it reflects Anders bias and perception of justice and injustice, which is dominated by one issue in particular.

 

I've always understood that abominations (as in, the union of mage and a spirit/demon: Anders and Wynn count) are effectively the aspect of the spirit in question being channeled through the viewpoint of the person in question. The spirit doesn't change the views of the person as much as magnify what is already there- potentially to the point of insanity, sure, but already there none the less.

 

But what's important to note is that the person being possessed matters: the same spirit possessing a different person could easily (even likely) produce different results. Pride-abomination Uldred was a mage-supremacist: the pride demon targeting Fenriel and potentially turning Merrill in Night Terrors from DA2 was appealing to desires of being a hero/saviour of the elves. Justice in Anders was fixated on the Circle system: had Justice merged with Velanna (as the devs have admitted considering), the focus would likely have been about mages.

 

Even the spirit of Faith in Wynn, the archetype of the benevolent abomination, likely depended on the fact that it was Wynn, who's faith was focused on a benevolent/optimistic view of the Circle system that was palatable to most people. Had it been someone else less emotionally and morally balanced, say someone like Sister Petrice, that benevolent spirit of Faith could feasibly be corrupted into a spirit of Zealotry.

 

I don't think Justice's lack of presence for various other injustices in DA2 has much to do with Justice being selective as it is about Anders not being particularly uniform in what angers him as an injustice. Which we already knew, especially in Act 3. Granted, there is a chicken-and-egg delimma here, where Anders fixates more and more about Mage/Templars over all else because of Justice's influence while Justice focuses on Mage/Templars because of Anders, but ultimately it would probably be of the latent imbalance in Anders rather than a particular fixation of Justice.

[wcholcombe]

I don't even think it's that: just that it reflects Anders bias and perception of justice and injustice, which is dominated by one issue in particular.

 

I've always understood that abominations (as in, the union of mage and a spirit/demon: Anders and Wynn count) are effectively the aspect of the spirit in question being channeled through the viewpoint of the person in question. The spirit doesn't change the views of the person as much as magnify what is already there- potentially to the point of insanity, sure, but already there none the less.

 

But what's important to note is that the person being possessed matters: the same spirit possessing a different person could easily (even likely) produce different results. Pride-abomination Uldred was a mage-supremacist: the pride demon targeting Fenriel and potentially turning Merrill in Night Terrors from DA2 was appealing to desires of being a hero/saviour of the elves. Justice in Anders was fixated on the Circle system: had Justice merged with Velanna (as the devs have admitted considering), the focus would likely have been about mages.

 

Even the spirit of Faith in Wynn, the archetype of the benevolent abomination, likely depended on the fact that it was Wynn, who's faith was focused on a benevolent/optimistic view of the Circle system that was palatable to most people. Had it been someone else less emotionally and morally balanced, say someone like Sister Petrice, that benevolent spirit of Faith could feasibly be corrupted into a spirit of Zealotry.

 

I don't think Justice's lack of presence for various other injustices in DA2 has much to do with Justice being selective as it is about Anders not being particularly uniform in what angers him as an injustice. Which we already knew, especially in Act 3. Granted, there is a chicken-and-egg delimma here, where Anders fixates more and more about Mage/Templars over all else because of Justice's influence while Justice focuses on Mage/Templars because of Anders, but ultimately it would probably be of the latent imbalance in Anders rather than a particular fixation of Justice.

See Wynne and Ander are the exception here.  As Wynne will tell you in DAO if you become an abomination everything that was you ceases to exist and is replaced by madness.

[dragonflight288]

I don't even think it's that: just that it reflects Anders bias and perception of justice and injustice, which is dominated by one issue in particular.

 

I've always understood that abominations (as in, the union of mage and a spirit/demon: Anders and Wynn count) are effectively the aspect of the spirit in question being channeled through the viewpoint of the person in question. The spirit doesn't change the views of the person as much as magnify what is already there- potentially to the point of insanity, sure, but already there none the less.

 

But what's important to note is that the person being possessed matters: the same spirit possessing a different person could easily (even likely) produce different results. Pride-abomination Uldred was a mage-supremacist: the pride demon targeting Fenriel and potentially turning Merrill in Night Terrors from DA2 was appealing to desires of being a hero/saviour of the elves. Justice in Anders was fixated on the Circle system: had Justice merged with Velanna (as the devs have admitted considering), the focus would likely have been about mages elves.

 

Even the spirit of Faith in Wynn, the archetype of the benevolent abomination, likely depended on the fact that it was Wynn, who's faith was focused on a benevolent/optimistic view of the Circle system that was palatable to most people. Had it been someone else less emotionally and morally balanced, say someone like Sister Petrice, that benevolent spirit of Faith could feasibly be corrupted into a spirit of Zealotry.

 

I don't think Justice's lack of presence for various other injustices in DA2 has much to do with Justice being selective as it is about Anders not being particularly uniform in what angers him as an injustice. Which we already knew, especially in Act 3. Granted, there is a chicken-and-egg delimma here, where Anders fixates more and more about Mage/Templars over all else because of Justice's influence while Justice focuses on Mage/Templars because of Anders, but ultimately it would probably be of the latent imbalance in Anders rather than a particular fixation of Justice.

 

You know, I think I agree with this based on what we know of the lore. 

[dragonflight288]

See Wynne and Ander are the exception here.  As Wynne will tell you in DAO if you become an abomination everything that was you ceases to exist and is replaced by madness.

 

And yet that is not the case with either of them, although Anders slowly loses his sanity, especially on a rival path, but he still maintains a sense of self. 

 

The fact that they are possessed still qualifies them both for death if the templars knew, however. 

[wcholcombe]

And yet that is not the case with either of them, although Anders slowly loses his sanity, especially on a rival path, but he still maintains a sense of self. 

 

The fact that they are possessed still qualifies them both for death if the templars knew, however. 

Yeah, but here is the difference between cooperative possession with a spirit and hostile possession with a demon.

 

And actually, as said in Asunder the Templars are ok with using spirits for healing, so its possible they are fully ok with Wynne's situation.

[The Elder King]

I don't even think it's that: just that it reflects Anders bias and perception of justice and injustice, which is dominated by one issue in particular.
 
I've always understood that abominations (as in, the union of mage and a spirit/demon: Anders and Wynn count) are effectively the aspect of the spirit in question being channeled through the viewpoint of the person in question. The spirit doesn't change the views of the person as much as magnify what is already there- potentially to the point of insanity, sure, but already there none the less.
 
But what's important to note is that the person being possessed matters: the same spirit possessing a different person could easily (even likely) produce different results. Pride-abomination Uldred was a mage-supremacist: the pride demon targeting Fenriel and potentially turning Merrill in Night Terrors from DA2 was appealing to desires of being a hero/saviour of the elves. Justice in Anders was fixated on the Circle system: had Justice merged with Velanna (as the devs have admitted considering), the focus would likely have been about mages.
 
Even the spirit of Faith in Wynn, the archetype of the benevolent abomination, likely depended on the fact that it was Wynn, who's faith was focused on a benevolent/optimistic view of the Circle system that was palatable to most people. Had it been someone else less emotionally and morally balanced, say someone like Sister Petrice, that benevolent spirit of Faith could feasibly be corrupted into a spirit of Zealotry.
 
I don't think Justice's lack of presence for various other injustices in DA2 has much to do with Justice being selective as it is about Anders not being particularly uniform in what angers him as an injustice. Which we already knew, especially in Act 3. Granted, there is a chicken-and-egg delimma here, where Anders fixates more and more about Mage/Templars over all else because of Justice's influence while Justice focuses on Mage/Templars because of Anders, but ultimately it would probably be of the latent imbalance in Anders rather than a particular fixation of Justice.

I agree with this, though Maybe I wasn't clear since it was my point that Justice wasn't selective i. His appearance. And I agree that a person can influence a spirit, up to the point of corrupting it.

[dragonflight288]

Yeah, but here is the difference between cooperative possession with a spirit and hostile possession with a demon.

 

And actually, as said in Asunder the Templars are ok with using spirits for healing, so its possible they are fully ok with Wynne's situation.

 

But they also watch those mages more closely than any other, as per the spec description of Spirit Healer in DA2. 

[Dean_the_Young]

See Wynne and Ander are the exception here.  As Wynne will tell you in DAO if you become an abomination everything that was you ceases to exist and is replaced by madness.

 

And? Wynne's rationalizing- not badly, mind you, but she's trying to avoid the connotations of the label rather than defy the underlying definition. If being an Abomination is a danger, and she does not believe herself to be a danger, and thus is not an abomination-

 

(Mind you, Anders didn't believe himself to be a danger either. He certainly wasn't conventionally sane less than a decade later.)

 

But that's really irrelevant, since I'm using abomination as the term for how spirit-possesion interacts with the host, rather than the effects it has on others, which is what Wynn tries to do. Where Wynn and Anders are exceptions is that they didn't join with conventional demons, but with 'benevolent' spirits- a category they believe in that is itself an ideological false division. The Dalish make no distinctions, and in this respect I do believe the Dalish have a better understanding through tradition and avoiding religious dogma.

 

Wynn, specifically, might be an exception for that exception based on how her joining went: whereas Justice and Anders are clearly joined, it's not clear if Wynn is. She might not be, and other some other category of relationship- or the spirit is simply emphasizing an optimism that is almost impossible to distinguish from, well, an already sweet old lady with faith and optimism. We don't know enough of her character pre-spirit to spot any real trends (though I suspect her willingness to fight at the Urn of Sacred Ashes is a reflection of it), and the aspect being accented simply may not present a character imbalance.

 

The Circle and Chantry's knowledge about spirits and abominations is pretty limited. Our best bets for a more authoritative source would be societies that have researched or practiced it more routinely: Tevinter and its research and fade explorations, or Rivian with its witches of ambiguous affect.

[wcholcombe]

And? Wynne's rationalizing- not badly, mind you, but she's trying to avoid the connotations of the label rather than defy the underlying definition. If being an Abomination is a danger, and she does not believe herself to be a danger, and thus is not an abomination-

 

(Mind you, Anders didn't believe himself to be a danger either. He certainly wasn't conventionally sane less than a decade later.)

 

But that's really irrelevant, since I'm using abomination as the term for how spirit-possesion interacts with the host, rather than the effects it has on others, which is what Wynn tries to do. Where Wynn and Anders are exceptions is that they didn't join with conventional demons, but with 'benevolent' spirits- a category they believe in that is itself an ideological false division. The Dalish make no distinctions, and in this respect I do believe the Dalish have a better understanding through tradition and avoiding religious dogma.

 

Wynn, specifically, might be an exception for that exception based on how her joining went: whereas Justice and Anders are clearly joined, it's not clear if Wynn is. She might not be, and other some other category of relationship- or the spirit is simply emphasizing an optimism that is almost impossible to distinguish from, well, an already sweet old lady with faith and optimism. We don't know enough of her character pre-spirit to spot any real trends (though I suspect her willingness to fight at the Urn of Sacred Ashes is a reflection of it), and the aspect being accented simply may not present a character imbalance.

 

The Circle and Chantry's knowledge about spirits and abominations is pretty limited. Our best bets for a more authoritative source would be societies that have researched or practiced it more routinely: Tevinter and its research and fade explorations, or Rivian with its witches of ambiguous affect.

Wynne is clearly joined, but it is a cooperative joining similar to Anders.  Uldred was possessed against his will as most of what we call "abominations" are such as Connor.  Connor very rarely was in control, and he didn't consciously kill all those people.  Wynne, and Anders to a degree, is completely in control of herself.  Pharamond definitely wasn't in control in any way shape or form.

 

Her comment about one slip and everything you are is lost, isn't speaking of herself, she is referring to giving in to the tempation of demons and letting them take over.

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah, but here is the difference between cooperative possession with a spirit and hostile possession with a demon.

 

And actually, as said in Asunder the Templars are ok with using spirits for healing, so its possible they are fully ok with Wynne's situation.

 

Without more understanding, how can we claim there is a meaningful difference? Was the Countess of Blackmarch a hostile possession, or a cooperative possession? Was Justice a hostile possession by the end, especially in a rivaled-Anders who gradually comes to oppose it?

 

I believe trying to distinguish between spirits and demons is playing an ideological distinction rather than a practical one. All fade beings appear to be psychological aspects that they fixate on: the only practical difference between spirits and demons at this point is that demons are more proactive towards the mortal world. But this is not an absolute or even a clear difference, as there are spirits who watch and choose to get involved and there are demons who don't (hence why the Despair demon is currently uncategorized and unrecognized to the Circle system).

 

And, more important, we don't even know why this is: it doesn't have to be an innate difference between spirits and demons. It could be the result of an outside influence, like the corruption of the Golden City, affecting the fade. Or the Fade itself could be a reflection of the collective unconsciousness of the world of Thedas: what if demons are more active in the Fade because demonic attributes/desires/inclinations are more active in the society of Thedas?

[wcholcombe]

Without more understanding, how can we claim there is a meaningful difference? Was the Countess of Blackmarch a hostile possession, or a cooperative possession? Was Justice a hostile possession by the end, especially in a rivaled-Anders who gradually comes to oppose it?

 

I believe trying to distinguish between spirits and demons is playing an ideological distinction rather than a practical one. All fade beings appear to be psychological aspects that they fixate on: the only practical difference between spirits and demons at this point is that demons are more proactive towards the mortal world. But this is not an absolute or even a clear difference, as there are spirits who watch and choose to get involved and there are demons who don't (hence why the Despair demon is currently uncategorized and unrecognized to the Circle system).

 

And, more important, we don't even know why this is: it doesn't have to be an innate difference between spirits and demons. It could be the result of an outside influence, like the corruption of the Golden City, affecting the fade. Or the Fade itself could be a reflection of the collective unconsciousness of the world of Thedas: what if demons are more active in the Fade because demonic attributes/desires/inclinations are more active in the society of Thedas?

Considering the spirits and demons refer to themselves as spirits and demons might be an indication that there is a difference.  The demon who possessed Pharamond calls Wynne's spirit a spirit, and vice versa.  The Wynne part may be from wynne, but the demon possessing Pharamond doesn't seem to be affected by Pharamond at all.  I just think it is trivializing to say that there is no difference between them, when one is basically a hostile take over of another being and the other is entirely cooperative.  Justice is a bit of a different story considering he no longer resides in the fade, but we don't know to what degree that is.

[dragonflight288]

Without more understanding, how can we claim there is a meaningful difference? Was the Countess of Blackmarch a hostile possession, or a cooperative possession? Was Justice a hostile possession by the end, especially in a rivaled-Anders who gradually comes to oppose it?

 

I believe trying to distinguish between spirits and demons is playing an ideological distinction rather than a practical one. All fade beings appear to be psychological aspects that they fixate on: the only practical difference between spirits and demons at this point is that demons are more proactive towards the mortal world. But this is not an absolute or even a clear difference, as there are spirits who watch and choose to get involved and there are demons who don't (hence why the Despair demon is currently uncategorized and unrecognized to the Circle system).

 

And, more important, we don't even know why this is: it doesn't have to be an innate difference between spirits and demons. It could be the result of an outside influence, like the corruption of the Golden City, affecting the fade. Or the Fade itself could be a reflection of the collective unconsciousness of the world of Thedas: what if demons are more active in the Fade because demonic attributes/desires/inclinations are more active in the society of Thedas?

 

This is why I support studying spirits and demons of the Fade, which actually falls under the codex definition of the school of spirit. But I also think such research cannot be done without constant observation, safeguards, and, quite likely ,a contingent of templars ready for a worst case scenario.

[Lulupab]

Considering the spirits and demons refer to themselves as spirits and demons might be an indication that there is a difference.  The demon who possessed Pharamond calls Wynne's spirit a spirit, and vice versa.  The Wynne part may be from wynne, but the demon possessing Pharamond doesn't seem to be affected by Pharamond at all.  I just think it is trivializing to say that there is no difference between them, when one is basically a hostile take over of another being and the other is entirely cooperative.  Justice is a bit of a different story considering he no longer resides in the fade, but we don't know to what degree that is.

 

 

I tend to agree with this. Justice calls Torpor a demonic monster while Torpor calls Justice a tiresome spirit. This kinda proves Justice has not become a demon. No matter how "corrupted" we think he has become he is not a demon, not that there was any doubt. The demons and spirits distinguish themselves. Who are the Dalish to say anything regarding this matter? Sure they can have their opinion and ignore all entities of the fade but that doesn't mean what they say is true.

 

Also in the fade there is no sign of any corruption when Anders is "gone". Justice is like: "I am Justice, Anders have told you of me. Come, we must go. I can sense Feynriel's mind slipping" Without any hesitation he thinks about act of Justice. This is the Justice we know from Awakening. The creature of Vengeance seems to be bound to anger and only comes out when Anders is very angry towards Templars. Vengeance is neither Justice nor Anders, its a hybrid form of both of them bound to anger. Anger + Justice = Vengeance. Take one away and Vengeance doesn't exist.

[Xilizhra]

Given that Justice is drawn out to attack by Corypheus' voice in Legacy, I strongly suspect that it was Anders' Grey Warden taint that corrupted Justice, more than his anger.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

By Act 3 I'm calling Vengeance a demon. Vengeance is a negative trait, which demons are based off of. As Justice says in Awakening, "Demons are just spirits perverted by their desires." And in Act 3 they are definitely consumed and perverted by their desire for Vengeance.

[The Elder King]

Given that Justice is drawn out to attack by Corypheus' voice in Legacy, I strongly suspect that it was Anders' Grey Warden taint that corrupted Justice, more than his anger.

I disagree on this.
This theory lead me to speculate of an hypothetical darkspawn abomination in the future. I wonder if they'll ever create something like this.

[Lulupab]

Given that Justice is drawn out to attack by Corypheus' voice in Legacy, I strongly suspect that it was Anders' Grey Warden taint that corrupted Justice, more than his anger.

 

We don't exactly know. Cory was able to control Anders through the taint. He possibly controlled Justice too as Justice is merged with Anders.

 

Could be true however.

[Lulupab]

By Act 3 I'm calling Vengeance a demon. Vengeance is a negative trait, which demons are based off of. As Justice says in Awakening, "Demons are just spirits perverted by their desires." And in Act 3 they are definitely consumed and perverted by their desire for Vengeance.

 
Feel free. The evidence we have so far suggests otherwise but you are entitled to your opinion. If there is a place between being benevolent and demonic Justice is there. AKA grey. Just compare a demon such as Aduacity and Justice and tell me what is similar between them. Does Justice kill everyone on sight? create more like himself? etc... ? The most negative thing we can call Justice right now is corrupted spirit based on evidence. His spirit characteristics is more dominant than demonic. We should not forget that all spirits of Justice do everything in their power to uphold their name. We should not forget this aspect of Justice.