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Uneven Presentation of the mage-templar conflict


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#7276
Hanako Ikezawa

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Feel free. The evidence we have so far suggests otherwise but you are entitled to your opinion. If there is a place between being benevolent and demonic Justice is there. AKA grey. Just compare a demon such as Aduacity and Justice and tell me what is similar between them. Does Justice kill everyone on sight? create more like himself? etc... ? The most negative thing we can call Justice right now is corrupted spirit based on evidence. His spirit characteristics is more dominant than demonic. We should not forget that all spirits of Justice do everything in their power to uphold their name. We should not forget this aspect of Justice.

Does Kitty kill everyone on sight if you let her possess Amalia or her father? No. Does that mean Kitty is not a demon then? 



#7277
KainD

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As for Corypheus, I'd want to gain victory over him with a Dalish mage, as I think there would be some symbolic significance in defeating one of the fabled Tevinter mages. I take it you'd want to ally with Corypheus? Do you think he has a plan you'd agree to with your Inquisitor?

 

I have no idea what I want yet, but I'm not sure why I would need to fight him, until he reveals what he wants. 



#7278
Xilizhra

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I disagree on this.
This theory lead me to speculate of an hypothetical darkspawn abomination in the future. I wonder if they'll ever create something like this.

Demons are freaked out by darkspawn taint, which is why Avernus was able to weaponize it to fight it off. Who knows what effect it might have if exposed to them for long enough?

 

A darkspawn abomination, if one could even exist, would probably be, if anything, an abomination in reverse: a demon trapped in a body still dominated by the darkspawn call and moving along with the rest of the horde, at least if a Blight was happening. If not, it might just hack away at other darkspawn before being brought down and killed.



#7279
KainD

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You mean a good Darwin award or the bad Darwin awards?

 

The bad one. 



#7280
The Elder King

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Doesn't change much how you want to call it. If my canon Inquisitor knows the whole story (Varric and Cassandra are party after all) and they meet Justice, he'd likely kill it.

#7281
Lulupab

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Does Kitty kill everyone on sight if you let her possess Amalia or her father? No. Does that mean Kitty is not a demon then? 

 

We don't know what she is going to do, do we? Also Desire demons tend to seem quite nice on surface and lie all the time. You believed a desire demon? Good for you.



#7282
Hanako Ikezawa

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We don't know what she is going to do, do we? Also Desire demons tend to seem quite nice on surface and lie all the time. You believed a desire demon? Good for you.

No, I always kill her after tricking her into letting Amalia go. I was just using that as an example. Just like I can use Feynriel as another if you let Torpor possess him. He kills a few people in their dreams, not everyone in sight or create an army of abominations. Or Marethari is another. Does she kill or turn the rest of the Dalish clan into abominations?



#7283
AresKeith

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Feel free. The evidence we have so far suggests otherwise but you are entitled to your opinion.

 

How so? Since Vengeance is a negative trait compared to Justice not matter how grey the two are



#7284
The Elder King

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Demons are freaked out by darkspawn taint, which is why Avernus was able to weaponize it to fight it off. Who knows what effect it might have if exposed to them for long enough?
 
A darkspawn abomination, if one could even exist, would probably be, if anything, an abomination in reverse: a demon trapped in a body still dominated by the darkspawn call and moving along with the rest of the horde, at least if a Blight was happening. If not, it might just hack away at other darkspawn before being brought down and killed.

But Justice got corrupted almost instantly.
About the darkspawn abomination, I was more wondering of how strong it might be. I might be wrong, but I recall that someone mentioned that a darkspawn abomination being a horrible thing if it'll ever happen. Maybe it was in the Magi Origin?

#7285
Lulupab

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No, I always kill her after tricking her into letting Amalia go. I was just using that as an example. Just like I can use Feynriel as another if you let Torpor possess him. He kills a few people in their dreams, not everyone in sight or create an army of abominations. 

 

He wants to rule and dominate. All demons want that. Justice however doesn't care for anything labeled as selfish.



#7286
Hanako Ikezawa

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He wants to rule and dominate. All demons want that. Justice however doesn't care for anything labeled as selfish.

Really? He wants the world to face Justice, or his interpretation of it. Sure sounds like he wants to rule and dominate.


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#7287
The Elder King

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He wants to rule and dominate. All demons want that. Justice however doesn't care for anything labeled as selfish.


Not true. The sloth demon in the Magi origin didn't seem interested in ruling and dominate.
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#7288
dragonflight288

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Not true. The sloth demon in the Magi origin didn't seem interested in ruling and dominate.

 

This is true. 

 

Warden: So you're a demon?

Sloth: As you might term it. But not all demons are demons.



#7289
Lulupab

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Really? He wants the world to face Justice, or his interpretation of it. Sure sounds like he wants to rule and dominate.

 
Then I'm sorry you cannot comprehend what ruling and dominating means. Torpor wants to enslave his kind and dominate. He will kill, he will make all manner of creatures to suffer so that he becomes the sole power. Just like any demon. TOO far from what Justice wants, which is freedom of mages that doesn't grant anything for himself.

Not true. The sloth demon in the Magi origin didn't seem interested in ruling and dominate.

 
Lazy demon?

#7290
Hanako Ikezawa

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Not true. The sloth demon in the Magi origin didn't seem interested in ruling and dominate.

He was just a bear chilling in the Fade. :P



#7291
EmissaryofLies

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Not true. The sloth demon in the Magi origin didn't seem interested in ruling and dominate.

 

I almost felt bad for leaving. He was such a great host.



#7292
AresKeith

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Then I'm sorry you cannot comprehend what ruling and dominating means. Torpor wants to enslave his kind and dominate. He will kill, he will make all manner of creatures to suffer so that he becomes the sole power. Just like any demon. TOO far from what Justice wants, which is freedom of mages that doesn't grant anything for himself.

 
Lazy demon?

 

Nowhere it is stated that all demons want to rule and dominate



#7293
Hellion Rex

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This is true. 

 

Warden: So you're a demon?

Sloth: As you might term it. But not all demons are demons.

And yet we had another sloth demon that tried to kill everyone in the Fade later, and did kill Niall.



#7294
Hanako Ikezawa

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Then I'm sorry you cannot comprehend what ruling and dominating means. Torpor wants to enslave his kind and dominate. He will kill, he will make all manner of creatures to suffer so that he becomes the sole power. Just like any demon. TOO far from what Justice wants, which is freedom of mages that doesn't grant anything for himself.

He wants his version of Justice to be the dominant one. His way or the highway.



#7295
Lulupab

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Nowhere it is stated that all demons want to rule and dominate


A correction is in order then:

All demons that actually have the power and capability want to rule and dominate. They are smart enough to not commit anything that will cause certain death for them hence we have lazy demons or ignorant demons.

#7296
KainD

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All demons that actually have the power and capability want to rule and dominate. 

 

Like any other living being..



#7297
AresKeith

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A correction is in order then:

All demons that actually have the power and capability want to rule and dominate. They are smart enough to not commit anything that will cause certain death for them hence we have lazy demons or ignorant demons.

 

That still doesn't counter Vengeance being a demon, seeing how it's the negative trait of what Justice is no matter how grey



#7298
Lulupab

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He wants his version of Justice to be the dominant one. His way or the highway.


There is no "his version". Mages are either free or are not. He gains nothing from freeing them. Absolutely nothing in comparison to demon example.



#7299
dragonflight288

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And yet we had another sloth demon that tried to kill everyone in the Fade later, and did kill Niall.

 

So what we have a two sloth demons with completely different personalities. 

 

Sort of like individuals, rather than simply broad-strokes of generality. 

 

Like Sten said, people aren't simple, you can't just categorize them simply such as 'the elves are a live, pointy eared people who excel at poverty.' Neither, can demons be simply categorized either. 


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#7300
KainD

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There is no "his version". 

 

There is everyone's version, justice is subjective. He possessed Anders so he got his version going on for him.