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[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lol you are an artist! in twisting words.

 

When did I say wanting a family makes you weak? You do realize the conversation is about demons right? A demon that wants to have a family is weak and pathetic more so in its brethren's eyes. The demons have quite a rivalry between each other too. Based on what the desire demon wants its weak or strong. Based on what Gaider told us Rage demons can become very powerful if they chose to change their trait to something anger related.

When you said "Which by that standard makes the demon even weaker." If her strength comes from her desire, and her desire is a family, them her being weak for wanting one means the prospect of wanting a family makes you weak.

 

A family's love, or desire to be with each other, can be incredibly powerful thus wanting that can also make one incredibly powerful.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

and then Liam Neesons shows up 

lol at the Key and Peele reference. 

[Lulupab]

Makes me think of Batman Begins: 

 

Bruce: "My parents deserve justice."

 

Rachael: "What you're talking about isn't justice. You're talking about revenge."

 

Bruce: "Well, sometimes they're the same."

 

Rachael: "No, they're never the same, Bruce. Justice is about harmony. Revenge is about you making yourself feel better."

 

What about "Retribution". Vengeance that is totally justified because the majority want it or its the will of the god? It all comes to many aspects to consider.

 

We all know about neat little morality slogans like “do unto other,” and “two wrongs don’t make a right.” But two wrongs can never make a right because two wrongs can never equal each other. For the truly wronged, real satisfaction can only be found in or mortal vindication, nothing less.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What about "Retribution". Vengeance that is totally justified because the majority want it or its the will of the god? It all comes to many aspects to consider.

 

We all know about neat little morality slogans like “do unto other,” and “two wrongs don’t make a right.” But two wrongs can never make a right… …because two wrongs can never equal each other. For the truly wronged, real satisfaction can only be found in or mortal vindication, nothing less.

The majority wanted what happened in Kirlwall? 

 

The Templars didn't want it.

The civilians didn't want it.

Heck, the Circle didn't want it.

 

The only person who wanted it was Anders. 

[Hellion Rex]

Well, retribution is a much more complex emotion/virtue/vice thingy. The demon Vengeance was more of a general spirit, not necessarily one of retribution.

[AresKeith]

What about "Retribution". Vengeance that is totally justified because the majority want it or its the will of the god? It all comes to many aspects to consider.

 

We all know about neat little morality slogans like “do unto other,” and “two wrongs don’t make a right.” But two wrongs can never make a right because two wrongs can never equal each other. For the truly wronged, real satisfaction can only be found in or mortal vindication, nothing less.

 

Retribution isn't tied with Vengeance

[Lulupab]

When you said "Which by that standard makes the demon even weaker." If her strength comes from her desire, and her desire is a family, them her being weak for wanting one means the prospect of wanting a family makes you weak.

 

A family's love, or desire to be with each other, can be incredibly powerful thus wanting that can also make one incredibly powerful.

 

But the desire demon is not a person. The more evil the trait the more powerful the demon thus that desire demon is weaker than the one we encounter on Harriman state, much weaker.

[Hellion Rex]

Retribution isn't tied with Vengeance

Why do I feel like Gaider once tied retribution to Rage?

[Lulupab]

There is room for nuance among the demons-- you could, for instance, encounter a powerful Rage demon that focused on Retribution... a very powerful and complex motivation beyond simple anger. -Gaider

[Hellion Rex]

But the desire demon is not a person. The more evil the trait the more powerful the demon thus that desire demon is weaker than the one we encounter on Harriman state, much weaker.

I disagree. The trait doesn't have to be more evil to be stronger. Harrimann's demon fed off greed, the desire to have more power. That's a pretty simplistic demesne for a demon. The desire to protect one's family could be much more potent and powerful.

[Lulupab]

I disagree. The trait doesn't have to be more evil to be stronger. Harrimann's demon fed off greed, the desire to have more power. That's a pretty simplistic demesne for a demon. The desire to protect one's family could be much more potent and powerful.

 

But it has to be evil. A demon embodies a sin and feeds on the evil parts of the mortal psyche such as desire. The more complex and darker the emotions, the more powerful the demon.

 

That was not mere greed, it was everything desire related. More power, greed, and doing everything such as murder to reach it. She somehow even made Lady Harimann a mage, or granted her magical abilities.

[Hellion Rex]

But it has to be evil. A demon embodies a sin and feeds on the evil parts of the mortal psyche such as desire. The more complex and darker the emotions, the more powerful the demon.

 

That was not mere greed, it was everything desire related. More power, greed, and doing everything such as murder to reach it. She somehow even made Lady Harimann a mage, or granted her magical abilities.

Or Harimann was already a mage and augmented her powers.

[Lulupab]

The majority wanted what happened in Kirlwall? 

 

The Templars didn't want it.

The civilians didn't want it.

Heck, the Circle didn't want it.

 

The only person who wanted it was Anders. 

 

"Grand cleric killed by magic, the people will demand Retribution" And they would have. Retribution is practically justified Vendetta.

[The Elder King]

"Grand cleric killed by magic, the people will demand Retribution" And they would have. Retribution is practically justified Vendetta.

Hanako is talking about the description of the Chantry, probably. Which nobody but Anders seems to want.

[Lulupab]

Hanako is talking about the description of the Chantry, probably. Which nobody but Anders seems to want.

 

Hanako by mistake thought I was talking about that occasion. I said Retribution is used when majority of people want it or its will of god. He jumped to that event which was not my intent at all.

[KainD]

The desire to protect one's family could be much more potent and powerful.

 

You know all people have different desires, and all of them can be quite potent. Someone might no care at all about having a family, or caring about their family, but might have a lot greater desire to collect all the post-stamps or something. 

[Hellion Rex]

You know all people have different desires, and all of them can be quite potent. Someone might no care at all about having a family, or caring about their family, but might have a lot greater desire to collect all the post-stamps or something. 

True, but all I'm saying is that a demon's psychic demesne doesn't need to be necessarily evil for it to be powerful.

[KainD]

True, but all I'm saying is that a demon's psychic demesne doesn't need to be necessarily evil for it to be powerful.

 

I don't even believe in such thing as evil so.. 

[KainD]

Edit: Double post.

 

The red hide button.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Hanako by mistake thought I was talking about that occasion. I said Retribution is used when majority of people want it or its will of god. He jumped to that event which was not my intent at all.

However, it does show that Vengeance was acting selfishly. It did something only it wanted. Thus countering your earlier argument about Anders not acting selfishly thus Vegeance not being a demon. 

[Lulupab]

However, it does show that Vengeance was acting selfishly. It did something only it wanted. Thus countering your earlier argument about Anders not acting selfishly thus Vegeance not being a demon. 

 

Mage rebellion proves otherwise. Its clear majority of mages wanted to be free from Templar and Chantry scrutiny. It did not counter anything least of all my argument about Anders.

 

He was perhaps Self righteous but he did it for mages. He gained nothing from it. Self righteous and at the same time quite selfless.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Mage rebellion proves otherwise. Its clear majority of mages wanted to be free from Templar and Chantry scrutiny. It did not counter anything least of all my argument about Anders.

 

He was perhaps Self righteous but he did it for mages. He gained nothing from it. Self righteous and at the same time quite selfless.

He gained the war he wanted, so he was at least partially selfish. Especially considering part of his plan was to sacrifice the entire Kirkwall Circle, the people he was supposed to be acting for. 

[AresKeith]

Mage rebellion proves otherwise. Its clear majority of mages wanted to be free from Templar and Chantry scrutiny. It did not counter anything least of all my argument about Anders.

 

He was perhaps Self righteous but he did it for mages. He gained nothing from it. Self righteous and at the same time quite selfless.

 

Good intentions can still lead down to dark path which is why Vengeance is a negative trait and makes it a demon, same as Pride, Desire, anger, etc

 

And he wanted war, which he gained

[The Elder King]

Mage rebellion proves otherwise. Its clear majority of mages wanted to be free from Templar and Chantry scrutiny. It did not counter anything least of all my argument about Anders.
 
He was perhaps Self righteous but he did it for mages. He gained nothing from it. Self righteous and at the same time quite selfless.

Mage rebellion proves nothing. Asunder was set one year roughly after DA2, after the horrible events of Kirkwall and templars acting harsher with the mages. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the majority of the mages want to be free. The fact that one person from the Aequitarian voted for the separation doesn't mean that The majority of Aequitarians wanted this.
Plus, this has nothing to do with Kirkwall. You have no proof to say that the majority of mages wanted to be free (even less destroy the Chantry), expecially because Anders FORCED them to choose that path, otherwise they'd die.

[Lulupab]

Good intentions can still lead down to dark path which is why Vengeance is a negative trait and makes it a demon, same as Pride, Desire, anger, etc

 

And he wanted war, which he gained

 

by that logic Andraste was a demon spawn.