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[thetinyevil]

Or it could indicate Chantry stance on Magic given that the Canticles are considered Holy Scripture of the faith.

Every but a small and I mean small portion forget the gift part and focus solely on the curse part. 

[Master Warder Z_]

If this is what you consider torture, no wonder so many Americans were so willing to accept it.
 

 

 

Oh Maker Dean...

 

 

Plus there's the even more important point that the Civil War was a political conflict in which slavery played a part, rather than being a conflict over slavery and waged to end it. Had the South not seceeded, or been brought to heel very quickly as it nearly was, Lincoln almost certainly would not have pushed the Emancipation Proclamation.

 

The American Civil War is also a far greater example of a crushing of a violent rebellion pursued to secure and advance prized rights (states rights and the right to hold slaves) than it is an example of rights being won through insurrection. It's pretty important to note that the Civil War didn't even involve a meaningful slave rebellion.

 

*Claps*

 

Very well said and adds upon even further context to the dismissal of that basis.

 

 

Drug addicts on one side...

 

Angry mages on the other...

 

Okay, who wants a cup of coffee?  I think I need my second one.

 

 

Coffee!

 

 

*Spikes own with Lyrium*

[TheKomandorShepard]

So, you aren't going to acknowledge that living in constant fear is an issue? There is a huge difference between surviving and living. Circle mages survive intact by keeping their head down and never asking I fully live as others. The fact that they fear reprisal if they did does not justify the state they are forced to survive in

 

There is no fear as i saw in dao in magi origin. To live you need survive and vice versa.Circle mages have better living conditions than most of thedas save for nobles as mages live in luxury for free so well... 

[Hellion Rex]

I can't use a like on this, but I agree.  It's too early for booze, but I'll pick up the tab.

Music to my ears.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Z  That's the last time I make coffee for you Mister!  Spiking it with serious drugs...you nuts?  The most this coffee should have in it is either a bit of Kahula or a bit of irish cream.

[thetinyevil]

I didn't deny this point, In so far as Most mages are born outside of it. but given how you were portraying you'r argument you can see the need for me to point out that Hedge witches and Apostates for the most part were never even inducted into the Circle, they have no experience with the concept.

 

Yeah the Libertarians that followed Uldred supported his way of thinking, Shocking isn't it? If you ever read the Codex's "promises of Pride" However you will note the correspondence between those followers and the rest of the senior mages of that circle and its evident that his minority, was in fact a minority.

 

Lacking? The Mages in question tend to be lacking only what their greed or vanity demands, There isn't a intention for extrapolation of a greater context. When those "groups" consist of more then a few extremists that also wouldn't overly mind a removal of oversight upon mages entirely we may actually have a conclusive motivation to examine.

Yes because only mages are greedy or vain.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Yes because only mages are greedy or vain.

Well from what i saw this is probably in case just replace greed with power hunger and constant acts of stupidity.

[wcholcombe]

@Dean While it is true that there wasn't slave rebellions during the US Civil War, in leading up to the Civil War there was plenty of slave rebellions starting in 1739.  I normally stay out of the RL stuff, but I had to point this out:

 

http://www.pbs.org/w...n-slaves-rebel/

 

The latest one was in 1831.  That was ~30 years before the start of the Civil War, but slaves rebelled at least four times prior to that.    I'm going to get coffee, but please check out the link.

In any slave holding society there are slave rebellions, he was merely meaning, that despite what some like to portray, the ACW was not about slavery.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Chantry doesn't provide for the Circle. The Circle itself does. The crafts the Formari/Tranquil create and sell allow the Circle to acquire enough funds for them to purchase what they need (source: Tranquil at Ostagar, who says they couldn't get by on charity).

 

The Circle isn't the only cost involved, you know: not just the initial start up capital, but also the maintenance costs: the Chantry workers, and especially the Templars and lyrium. The Circle's funds only go towards (and don't even necessarily cover) the mage's costs, not the Chantry or Templars. When markets go bad and mages aren't selling or aren't even working, the Chantry is still the supplier of last resort.

 

But I believe you missed the more significant point of TK's: that the Circle system could be far less generous and far more exploitative if the Templars and/or Chantry wanted. There's no reason other than the Chantry's willingness that the mages must get the money from the Mage/Tranquil crafting- the fact that the money does go to the Circle for the Mages to spend is itself a generous concession by the Chantry: every sovereign the mages make is a sovereign the Chantry is giving up for them.

 

 

So really, the Chantry can't cherrypick even if they wanted to. It wouldn't work.

 

Sure it would. That actually would be slavery, and slavery has a long, productive, and even successful (if terribly unpleasant and immoral) history.

 

You're a mage. You get privilages if you provide value: luxuries, education, security. If you don't, you get gruel and bare essentials, and I do mean bare. If you resist, Tranquilized. You don't want to eat gruel or be tranquilized? Better start working.

 

The Chantry and Templars could. They aren't even trying to, nor do they want to.

[Hellion Rex]

Ok, let's drop the RL stuff, ladies and gentlemen?

[Master Warder Z_]

@Z  That's the last time I make coffee for you Mister!  Spiking it with serious drugs...you nuts?  The most this coffee should have in it is either a bit of Kahula or a bit of irish cream.

 

...My doctor told me it was better to use Dwarf Dust in place of Sugar.

 

*Shows Doctors Note*

 

Ignore the Chantry Stationary its written upon as well.

[thetinyevil]

Well from what i saw this is probably in case just replace greed with power hunger and constant acts of stupidity.

Wow...I was being sarcastic. You need to learn what sarcasm is.

[wcholcombe]

Wow...I was being sarcastic. You need to learn what sarcasm is.

He was aware.  He didn't care, he agreed.

[Grieving Natashina]

Sure thing.

 

@wchol  Ah, gotcha.  That is true.

 

Okay, so here's a question: Do you think that the Masked Empire, as well as Inquisition, could give the narrative some balance?  Currently, we're overall really divided as a player base.

 

Also, second question: What do you guys want to see represented?  Personally, I'd like to get to know a Templar as a companion (and it doesn't have to be the one talked about either) and try to understand them.  I'd like to talk to a pro-Circle mage about their feelings about the post-Asunder events.  For me, it would help humanize the factions if I have a chance to get to know them better.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Wow...I was being sarcastic. You need to learn what sarcasm is.

Well you tried to be but tell you told truth by saying that.

[TK514]

Drug addicts on one side...
 
Angry mages on the other...
 
Okay, who wants a cup of coffee?  I think I need my second one.
 

I don't drink coffee. I hope this does not make us mortal foes.

[Master Warder Z_]

Okay, so here's a question: Do you think that the Masked Empire, as well as Inquisition, could give the narrative some balance?  Currently, we're overall really divided as a player base.

 

Most of Masked Empire is apparently set Pre Asunder.

 

Hopefully DAI will attempt to Humanize both factions give the Devs have said just that.

[Grieving Natashina]

I don't drink coffee. I hope this does not make us mortal foes.

LOL Nah.  I didn't start drinking coffee very much until a few years ago myself.  I also "offer" mead, soda and water as well.  

 

@Z: Aye, but how would you like to see them humanized?

[thetinyevil]

Well you tried to be but tell you told truth by saying that.

Greed and Vanity isn't a trait only mages have mundane have it too. Look at Arl Howe. He slaughtered his best friend for his land and power.

[wcholcombe]

Sure thing.

 

@wchol  Ah, gotcha.  That is true.

 

Okay, so here's a question: Do you think that the Masked Empire, as well as Inquisition, could give the narrative some balance?  Currently, we're overall really divided as a player base.

 

Also, second question: What do you guys want to see represented?  Personally, I'd like to get to know a Templar as a companion (and it doesn't have to be the one talked about either) and try to understand them.  I'd like to talk to a pro-Circle mage about their feelings about the post-Asunder events.  For me, it would help humanize the factions if I have a chance to get to know them better.

DAI may and hopefully will portray balance.  ME doesn't seem to give it too much attention actually.

 

I hope that DAI does a better job of representing Templars as not crazy masaginistic nazis.

I would prefer mages not be portrayed as they were in DA2 either.  DAO was a nice balance, but I would like the gameplay to give us more clarification on the dangers of possession and would really like to see what an abomination can do when it isn't contained.

[Dean_the_Young]

@Dean While it is true that there wasn't slave rebellions during the US Civil War, in leading up to the Civil War there was plenty of slave rebellions starting in 1739.  I normally stay out of the RL stuff, but I had to point this out:

 

http://www.pbs.org/w...n-slaves-rebel/

 

The latest one was in 1831.  That was ~30 years before the start of the Civil War, but slaves rebelled at least four times prior to that.    I'm going to get coffee, but please check out the link.

 

That's, ahem, not exactly making a strong case that the Civil War was about slave rebellions. Especially when you have to go three decades before the conflict for the last one.

 

The anti-slavery movement at the time of the conflict was based far more on peaceful moralizing than it ever was as a result of violent revolutionary radicalization.

[Hellion Rex]

Most of Masked Empire is apparently set Pre Asunder.

 

Hopefully DAI will attempt to Humanize both factions give the Devs have said just that.

I honestly read a bunch of that preview, and I don't think it did much at all to be honest.

[Grieving Natashina]

Well Dean, what about my other questions?  I'm listening to eluvianix's request to steer away from the RL stuff, so I'm trying to get this back on track.

 

@eluvianix  Well, it's hard to judge based upon a preview.  We're certainly missing a lot of the tale.  I think I'm going to reserve judgement until I get my hands on the book itself.

[wcholcombe]

That's, ahem, not exactly making a strong case that the Civil War was about slave rebellions. Especially when you have to go three decades before the conflict for the last one.

 

The anti-slavery movement at the time of the conflict was based far more on peaceful moralizing than it ever was as a result of violent revolutionary radicalization.

Yeah, surprisingly the slavery and anti slavery crowd were both largely right winged extremists by todays standard.  The proslavery were conservative and the antis were the "slavery is an affront to god" crowd.

[Hellion Rex]

As for companions, I would like to see interaction between pro-mage Vivienne, our bald elf mage, and a Templar companion. It would have some interesting banter as well as dialogue. I would also like to interject my own beliefs into the discussion (if we can)