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[Cat Lance]

Your argument, if I understood it, was that if mages are unhappy, that's because they have reasons to be and that these reasons are provoked by the Circle system.
However, the details of Ferelden's tower plus Uldred's rebellion show how this is not an universal truth.

There are many circles besides the one at the lake. But imprisonment, continuing survival at the whim of a group where many hate you, threat of being turned into a living doll, the inability to lead your life. These are all legitimate reasons for wanting to see change.

[Xilizhra]

Oh, heavens yes. The Russian security agencies would probably laugh at the Circle System as qaintly idealistic and inept, before stepping in and showing them how a real security state is run.

 

Removing mage rights and independent income, making all privileges dependent on good conduct and loyal behavior, systematically infiltrating mage fraternities with snitches and moles, marginalizing and outright destroying anti-state polities from ever openly organizing, sowing fear and distrust between mage groups and individual mages with mage-snitches, regular sting operations to ferret out treason, a secret police for midnight disappearances of suspected mages for enhanced interrogation, removing the First Enchanter as a major actor while hand selecting official mage leaders rather than let the mages choose their own, strictly limit and control education and reading material, specially sanctioned blood-mages for mind-controlling mages for interrogation purposes and to sow internal strife, accept significant collateral damage in putting down an outbreak.

 

There's more, easily.

Of course, both the Russian Empire and Soviet Union fell, with fewer years under their belt than the Circle by far.

 

 

Yes, and suffer the lifelong withdrawl problems the lack of Lyrium causes. 

 

Um, I think we can all say Uldred was the enactor and the Templars the reactors. Plus if you trace it back far enough, aren't the Templars just reacting to what the Tevinter Magisters of old did to the nonmage populace? 

I would disagree, as it was specifically a reaction to templar control of their lives. In any case, things like Uldred's revolt were directed at the templars themselves, and not for solely historical reasons; the templars are not acting against the magisters controlling the Imperium, then or now.

[Grieving Natashina]

This isn't directed at anyone, but I think I found my new favorite quote from David in that thread.  <sticks it into the last line of her signature>

[Cat Lance]

Question: if I believe something is necessary regardless of what the subject feels about it, why would it matter what I would feel about it?

My issue here is that the system is broken. That is, it is not accomplishing it's goals when the system itself is driving mages to become Maleficar.

Further, the system can be improved in such a way that it does work.

This is what I advocate. Creating a working system.

[Mister Chompski]

My issue here is that the system is broken. That is, it is not accomplishing it's goals when the system itself is driving mages to become Maleficar.

Further, the system can be improved in such a way that it does work.

This is what I advocate. Creating a working system.

 

I agree here. It is clear that the current system is not working as well as it needs to be. There needs to be some kind of reformation.

[Cat Lance]

I agree here. It is clear that the current system is not working as well as it needs to be. There needs to be some kind of reformation.

THANK YOU!!!

[EmissaryofLies]

Then again, the Pro-Temps will argue that because the circle system contains its messes, that it works. In that it protects mundanes and if a couple mages die here and there, well it's price that simply must be paid.

[AresKeith]

This isn't directed at anyone, but I think I found my new favorite quote from David in that thread.  <sticks it into the last line of her signature>

 

It's funny because it's true 

[Grieving Natashina]

Then again, the Pro-Temps will argue that because the circle system contains its messes, that it works. In that it protects mundanes and if a couple mages die here and there, well it's price that simply must be paid.

Should I put up my Merry Go Round from Hell gif up again?  Or is it too soon since the last time?

 

@Ares: I thought so too.  Since I can't put up the entire response to the Straight Male Gamer (which has too many great quotes from David to count,) I thought this one made for a fine second choice.

[Cat Lance]

Then again, the Pro-Temps will argue that because the circle system contains its messes, that it works. In that it protects mundanes and if a couple mages die here and there, well it's price that simply must be paid.

That is tither laziness or hatred. As there is no reason in that not to work towards a truly functioning system.

[EmissaryofLies]

Wouldn't hurt.

Thinking of that Dead or Alive song, personally.

[Cat Lance]

Should I put up my Merry Go Round from Hell gif up again?  Or is it too soon since the last time?
 
@Ares: I thought so too.  Since I can't put up the entire response to the Straight Male Gamer (which has too many great quotes from David to count,) I thought this one made for a fine second choice.

Forgive me, everyone, but I wanna see!! *grins incorrigibly*

[Grieving Natashina]

Wouldn't hurt.

Thinking of that Dead or Alive song, personally.

Nah, too much respect for that artist for that.  

 

@Cat  I'll send you a PM with it.  It's hypnotizing.

[TEWR]

It's been a while since I've played that scene, but was that confirmed? I assumed that the templars were lying to Wynne when they told her he was dead since they realized he was beyond their reach.

 

Aneirin confirms it.

 

Eluvianix wrote...

 

Quentin was an Apostate that only had contact with Orsino, no one else.

 

It's implied that Quentin was from Starkhaven's Circle before going Apostate, given that Gaspard was inquiring about missing mages from that Circle.

[TEWR]

MisterJB wrote...

 

Maybe they cut off his head exactly because he was a charlatan who was scamming people out of their money.

 

That'd... be a matter for the local authorities.

 

Plus, the blurb we have talking about him talks about it in such a way that it was more a "Strike first, ask questions later" mentality.

 

Which isn't the first time it's happened. The Templars acted the same way to the Chasind folk when they were looking for Morrigan and Flemeth (prequel comic). Well, one did. Dude didn't care how many innocent Chasind women he killed.

[TEWR]

Where the heck were the seekers in dragon age 2 anyway? I said it was probably knight commander Lord Seeker Lambert, sorry, got confused there based on how he conducts himself, actions that stonewalled investigation of kirkwalls issues, but I don;t have much proof.

 

So is there any in-game explanation as to why the internal affairs of the dragon age universe decided to twiddle their thumbs up their butts and do nothing while all this insanity went on over the course of a few years?

 

They're incompetent.

 

That or Lambert was stonewalling the Seekers from going there as you said, thinking that Meredith had everything under control and was a prime exemplar of what a Templar should be.

 

Either scenario is damning of the Seekers.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Then again, the Pro-Temps will argue that because the circle system contains its messes, that it works. In that it protects mundanes and if a couple mages die here and there, well it's price that simply must be paid.

 

And that is roughly the truth.

 

There are no perfect systems. Mages, by their nature, must be restricted. No matter what restrictions you put in place, there will ALWAYS be someone who will resent them.

And they will fight back.

 

Do our laws and police force prevent crime? No. Does our trial/punishment system do a good job in stopping the people from committing crime? No.

Does that mean it's a failure?

 

At the end of the day, there is no system that could put in place that would satisfy everyone. And unless everyone is satisfied, there is always someone who will cause problems.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Of course, both the Russian Empire and Soviet Union fell, with fewer years under their belt than the Circle by far.

 

 

I would disagree, as it was specifically a reaction to templar control of their lives. In any case, things like Uldred's revolt were directed at the templars themselves, and not for solely historical reasons; the templars are not acting against the magisters controlling the Imperium, then or now.

Which like I said, an argument could be made for the Templars reacting to the atrocities of the Tevinter Magisters by making sure that never happens again. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Since the debate in the thread has been over video game issues, I figured I wouldn't use the Merry Go 'Round.   This fits much better, since there is a pretty serious division among many of the posters.

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Since the debate in the thread has been over video game issues, I figured I wouldn't use the Merry Go 'Round.   This fits much better, since there is a pretty serious division among many of the posters.

 

 

[Grieving Natashina]

It's late, and I'm a little bored.

 

I think I can sum up what all the more fervent pro-Templar folk think that mages are going to do the second they have some personal freedoms.

 

[Aimi]

It's late, and I'm a little bored.

 

I think I can sum up what all the more fervent pro-Templar folk think that mages are going to do the second they have some personal freedoms.

 

So what reference for the other side? Ordinary Men?

[Grieving Natashina]

 

So what reference for the other side? Ordinary Men?

For the extremists among the pro-Mages?  A man cackling with glee as he beats and rapes a mage repeatedly.   While his friends chuckle about the latest mage they killed and the latest mage they made Tranquil.  Just missing a twirling mustache and surely they crave "UNLIMITED POWAH!" over the mages as well.  

 

In case you haven't been able to tell, I'm not a pro-extremist, no matter if it's robe or skirt.  

 

I think both of the extremists in these factions are letting fear do more talking than reason.

[Lulupab]

For the extremists among the pro-Mages?  A man cackling with glee as he beats and rapes a mage repeatedly.   While his friends chuckle about the latest mage they killed and the latest mage they made Tranquil.  Just missing a twirling mustache and surely they crave "UNLIMITED POWAH!" over the mages as well.  

 

In case you haven't been able to tell, I'm not a pro-extremist, no matter if it's robe or skirt.  

 

I think both of the extremists in these factions are letting fear do more talking than reason.

 

The perfect villain face, mustache, voice, and letter! Its just perfect. The best villain Bioware has come up with.

 

[Grieving Natashina]

Ah, a good visual representation.  Thanks Lulu.  I can tell I'm getting a little tired.  

 

Time to refuse on coffee.  I have things to do in a few hours.