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Uneven Presentation of the mage-templar conflict


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#8226
Sir DeLoria

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Not ever dalish is hostile, racist and xenophobic.


The dalish demonstrate time and time again, that they are the epitome of all three of those things. Every time you enter a dalish camp in DA, as a non-elf, you get death threats. Velanna just murders random humans for no reason and then there's Zathrian of course.

#8227
Lulupab

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We also have a history of killing lots more humans than we can kill Dalish. The clans aren't particularly large- not relative to other groups we see.

 

If we added them up together Hawke kills, what, four or five clans worth of humans per Act? And I think the Warden kills more humans in the streets of Denerim (not even including the houses) than there were Dalish in the game.

 

That's because there are more humans than elves. The Dalish are even much rarer.



#8228
Sir DeLoria

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Spoiler


Knife.

#8229
Ryzaki

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Destroying a clan per game is one thing. Destroying all the clans is another.

 

Thus my usage of slowly over time. I don't expect the job to be done in Inq but we'll whittle them down  :D (I'm sorry but really Dalish elves are one of those races I rather just be like NOPE to.)

 

We also have a history of killing lots more humans than we can kill Dalish. The clans aren't particularly large- not relative to other groups we see.

 

If we added them up together Hawke kills, what, four or five clans worth of humans per Act? And I think the Warden kills more humans in the streets of Denerim (not even including the houses) than there were Dalish in the game.

 

True those raining reinforcements Hawke's just a serial killer no matter how you play him.

 

Same with Warden really they kill a lot of people XD

 

But honestly killing yet another dalish clan wouldn't be strange or even out of place.

 

Do you mean they are more bark, than bite? I can see that *smirk*

 

XD



#8230
Dean_the_Young

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That's because there are more humans than elves. The Dalish are even much rarer.

 

Sure, but equating Dalish clans to, well, even Human settlements is a bit of a false equivalence. Possibly kill thirty Dalish, and it's a pattern of genocide. Regularly kill thirty humans, and it's a Tuesday.



#8231
LobselVith8

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The dalish demonstrate time and time again, that they are the epitome of all three of those things. Every time you enter a dalish camp in DA, as a non-elf, you get death threats. Velanna just murders random humans for no reason and then there's Zathrian of course.


The Dalish are the targets of violence, and have been since the fall of the Dales. An outsider who comes to them in peace is the exception, not the norm.

Also, Zathrian cursed the humans who murdered his son and raped his daughter, while Velanna was mislead into thinking humans killed her group and kidnapped her sister; I don't excuse their actions, but it's not as though they are black hat villains out of a Saturday Morning Cartoon.
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#8232
Lulupab

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Knife.

 

That actually doesn't have anything to do with that character. I was pointing out the resemblance in the methods.



#8233
renfrees

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We also have a history of killing lots more humans than we can kill Dalish. The clans aren't particularly large- not relative to other groups we see.

 

If we added them up together Hawke kills, what, four or five clans worth of humans per Act? And I think the Warden kills more humans in the streets of Denerim (not even including the houses) than there were Dalish in the game.

I think the only Dalish that dies from my hand is Marethari and (sometimes) Merril.



#8234
Sir DeLoria

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Dalish genocide, Human Genocide, Orlesian Genocide, Andrastian genocide, Qunari genocide, Dwarven Genocide, Darkspawn Genocide...
 
It's amazing how often 'let's kill them all and let the Maker sort them out, for great justice' gets tossed around on these forums. You'd think people never learned to tolerate dysfunctional and unpleasant foreign regimes with anything less than total destruction.


I believe the majority should be(mine certainly is) tongue-in-cheek.

#8235
Dean_the_Young

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I think the only Dalish that dies from my hand is Marethari and (sometimes) Merril.

 

Immoral biigoted genocidal fetishist maniac.

 

[/deadpan]



#8236
Sir DeLoria

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The Dalish are the targets of violence, and have been since the fall of the Dales. An outsider who comes to them in peace is the exception, not the norm.


That doesn't justify senseless murder, agression or bigotry. By doing that, the dalish just prove they're just as bad, as the racists who hate them.

#8237
Ryzaki

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You know I want a bandit to attack the PC for once and you have the choice to let him go if you don't meet that bandit's kids or something who are wondering when daddy's gonna come back with food or something.

 

Just to kick the player in the stomach. :3



#8238
LobselVith8

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That doesn't justify senseless murder, agression or bigotry. By doing that, the dalish just prove they're just as bad, as the racists who hate them.


There are good and bad among the Dalish, just like with the rest of the races who inhabit Thedas. Blaming all of them for the actions of some is ludicrous.

#8239
Lulupab

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That doesn't justify senseless murder, agression or bigotry. By doing that, the dalish just prove they're just as bad, as the racists who hate them.

 

What do you expect them to do? (though not all Dalish are like what you said) Wear rainbow theme clothing and go on parades like LGBT people? Its feudal age ffs not postmodern. What the LGBT community does seems to work, they get less and less hate each year but Dalish have no choice in the matter. We have to see what Inquisition has in store for the Dalish.



#8240
Ryzaki

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Well then it's only fair that the humans living near them knowing they get violent drive them out. Using violent means if necessary. After all they're just protecting themselves.



#8241
Dean_the_Young

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You know I want a bandit to attack the PC for once and you have the choice to let him go if you don't meet that bandit's kids or something who are wondering when daddy's gonna come back with food or something.

 

Just to kick the player in the stomach. :3

 

If you want to kick them in the balls-

 

Give Hawke a named refugee to kill in the prologue. One of those refugees who was desperate to get into the city.

 

In Act 3, seven years later, meet a 20-year-old prostitute who had to enter the profession because someone killed her brother when he was trying to get them into the city.

 

Start screaming when you realize the implications.


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#8242
Sir DeLoria

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There are good and bad among the Dalish, just like with the rest of the races who inhabit Thedas. Blaming all of them for the actions of some is ludicrous.


Yes, I agree to an extent, but sadly the majority of the dalish has been portrayed very negatively in this franchise.

#8243
Dean_the_Young

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What do you expect them to do? (though not all Dalish are like what you said) Wear rainbow theme clothing and go on parades like LGBT people? Its feudal age ffs not postmodern. What the LGBT community does seems to work, they get less and less hate each year but Dalish have no choice in the matter. We have to see what Inquisition has in store for the Dalish.

 

Acting like gypsies would probably be an improvement in their behavior, and lead to an improvement in their treatment. Being a pest, rather than a community threat, is a more productive stance to staying alive.

 

Edit: And I am saying this as someone well aware of the injustices and stereotypes that gypsies faced as a result. Not as a way of condoning the gypsie stereotypes and treatment.


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#8244
LobselVith8

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Well then it's only fair that the humans living near them knowing they get violent drive them out. Using violent means if necessary. After all they're just protecting themselves.


Criminalizing their religion and hunting them down are still issues that the Dalish deal with, which is why Ariane protected her clan from a templar and why the Sabrae clan was threatened to convert to the Chantry.

#8245
Ryzaki

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If you want to kick them in the balls-

 

Give Hawke a named refugee to kill in the prologue. One of those refugees who was desperate to get into the city.

 

In Act 3, seven years later, meet a 20-year-old prostitute who had to enter the profession because someone killed her brother when he was trying to get them into the city.

 

Start screaming when you realize the implications.

 

Yeees. I want stuff like that. Just for feels :3



#8246
Lulupab

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Yes, I agree to an extent, but sadly the majority of the dalish has been portrayed very negatively in this franchise.

 

Telling you to leave their clan is quite justified though. Nothing wrong with that. Marethari's clan does nothing wrong and you kill them out of hate yourself.


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#8247
Ryzaki

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Criminalizing their religion and hunting them down are still issues that the Dalish deal with, which is why Ariane protected her clan from a templar and why the Sabrae clan was threatened to convert to the Chantry.

 

And that doesn't mean the humans should let violent elves killing those who get too close to their camp slide. (You can kill those wanders in the beginning of the DE origin it's almost expected if Tam's any indication). So...not feeling much sympathy.

 

Edit @above: What? Marethari's clan attacks first. My Hawke simply wanted Merill to leave not his fault they threw themselves on his daggers.

 

The DAO clan (not the origin clan) is the one who did nothing wrong.



#8248
LobselVith8

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Yes, I agree to an extent, but sadly the majority of the dalish has been portrayed very negatively in this franchise.


The negative portrayals are usually at the forefront, unfortunately. Hopefully, there's more variety among the Dalish characters in Inquisition.

#8249
Sir DeLoria

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Telling you to leave their clan is quite justified though. Nothing wrong with that. Marethari's clan does nothing wrong and you kill them out of hate yourself.


Sometimes I do and some of them do not deserve to die, but I don't feel sorry for the majority of them. Xenophobia doesn't make you a lot of friends. Sure, it's a vicious circle, but the dalish are just adding fuel to the fire.

#8250
LobselVith8

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And that doesn't mean the humans should let violent elves killing those who get too close to their camp slide. (You can kill those wanders in the beginning of the DE origin it's almost expected if Tam's any indication). So...not feeling much sympathy.


Marethari chastises you for killing the humans; of course, sparing them leads to the humans inciting a lynch mob to attack the Sabrae clan.