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[Divine Justinia V]

I'm the opposite. That girl's story is the only reason I support the existence of Tranquility. 

 

Even though they could've transferred her and saved her life?

[Hellion Rex]

I'm the opposite. That girl's story is the only reason I support the existence of Tranquility. 

I only support Tranquility until we can find a better way to entirely cut off a mage's powers forever.

 

On another note, I wonder how the Black Chantry views Tranquility. Somehow, I think the Rite is more of a White practice than an Imperial one.

[Hellion Rex]

Even though they could've transferred her and saved her life?

We have no proof that her situation would have been any different somewhere else.

[EmissaryofLies]

With people that aren't complete idiots, I daresay it might have been quite different.

[Divine Justinia V]

We have no proof that her situation would have been any different somewhere else.

 

We do, with Feynriel. Wasn't he a dreamer as well?

[Hellion Rex]

With people that aren't complete idiots, I daresay it might have been quite different.

Considering this is the Gallows we are talking bout, they certainly had no shortage of idiots there.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Even though they could've transferred her and saved her life?

Simply put, we don't know that. Nobody understood what she was going through, so does she transfer in an attempt to stop the voices, and even if successful only slightly, or go for the assured route to stop the voices completely? Besides, she went to the First Enchanter first. You really think they didn't suggest the alternatives? 

 

 

I only support Tranquility until we can find a better way to entirely cut off a mage's powers forever.

 

On another note, I wonder how the Black Chantry views Tranquility. Somehow, I think the Rite is more of a White practice than an Imperial one.

Indeed. Once a better way presents itself, I will fully drop supporting the existence of the Right of Tranquility. But until then, you make due with what you have. 

[AresKeith]

I only support Tranquility until we can find a better way to entirely cut off a mage's powers forever.

 

On another note, I wonder how the Black Chantry views Tranquility. Somehow, I think the Rite is more of a White practice than an Imperial one.

 

I remember hearing Tevinter uses it too

 

Even though they could've transferred her and saved her life?

 

We have no proof that her situation would have been any different somewhere else.

 

Indeed, sometimes there is no other option

[Grieving Natashina]

I'm the opposite. That girl's story is the only reason I support the existence of Tranquility. 

I think Owain makes for a more compelling case.  He's an adult that knew he wouldn't be strong enough to make it through the Harrowing and then was made Tranquil.  He's proof that a grown person can decide willingly to become Tranquil.

 

I have a feeling that codex description of mage seeking Tranquility (horrific nightmares, plagued by demons,ect) is a common reason that adults sometimes opt for it.  I just don't think a child, a little girl, was old enough to make that choice for herself.

 

@Ares: Don't you think that they should have mentioned that the adults tried another way?  It would have behooved them to not let an 11 year old child make such a huge choice.

[Divine Justinia V]

Alright.. so... because there's "no proof", it's not worth trying. Got it.

[Divine Justinia V]

Simply put, we don't know that. Nobody understood what she was going through, so does she transfer in an attempt to stop the voices, and even if successful only slightly, or go for the assured route to stop the voices completely? Besides, she went to the First Enchanter first. You really think they didn't suggest the alternatives?

 

I really think they couldn't suggest proper alternatives, no.

[Hellion Rex]

We do, with Feynriel. Wasn't he a dreamer as well?

True, but when I had responded to your post, I was referring to a transfer to another White circle, not Black. If they could have possibly gotten her to Tevinter, she probably would have been able to control her powers, but we don't even know if this was an option. Furthermore, we don't even know how old the Amulet is, or how old Orana's story is. It could have been in a period where the White and Blacks weren't cooperating, and so no transfer to an Imperial circle would have been possible.

[Grieving Natashina]

I really think they couldn't suggest proper alternatives, no.

Cynicism time:

 

Why would they want to?  Easier to have a child become Tranquil rather than deal with her down the road.  No muss, no fuss, no caring about their pesky feelings.  It makes it easy!

[AresKeith]

@Ares: Don't you think that they should have mentioned that the adults tried another way?  It would have behooved them to not let an 11 year old child make such a huge choice.

 

I think they should have yes, but we don't know if they did or not

[Divine Justinia V]

True, but when I had responded to your post, I was referring to a transfer to another White circle, not Black. If they could have possibly gotten her to Tevinter, she probably would have been able to control her powers, but we don't even know if this was an option. Furthermore, we don't even know how old the Amulet is, or how old Orana's story is. It could have been in a period where the White and Blacks weren't cooperating, and so no transfer to an Imperial circle would have been possible.

 

That's what I'm saying though, the proof is there that Tevinter could helped. My entire point was that if the Chantry would just bend their own moral high ground and transferred her to the Black Chantry, she wouldn't have had to become Tranquil.

I think everyone can figure out that it was never an option, there is no way the White would want to do something like that.

[Divine Justinia V]

Cynicism time:

 

Why would they want to?  Easier to have a child become Tranquil rather than deal with her down the road.  No muss, no fuss, no caring about their pesky feelings.  It makes it easy!

 

Basically!

It has nothing to do with "proof", they don't need the proof to try. That's the whole point.

And we, as the pc, know it would've helped after Feynriel's story. He wound up helping people through dreams, in fact.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's what I'm saying though, the proof is there that Tevinter could helped. My entire point was that if the Chantry would just bend their own moral high ground and transferred her to the Black Chantry, she wouldn't have had to become Tranquil.

I think everyone can figure out that it was never an option, there is no way the White would want to do something like that.

And yet they did it with Feynriel. If you sent him to the Circle in Act 1, he is in his room there when you go in the Fade and he suggests he's going to Tevinter to train there. And he does, which meant he was allowed to do so by the Templars.

[Divine Justinia V]

And yet they did it with Feynriel. If you sent him to the Circle in Act 1, he is in his room there when you go in the Fade and he suggests he's going to Tevinter to train there. And he does, which meant he was allowed to do so by the Templars.

 

Or maybe he wasn't allowed to. Maybe he was sneaking there. We don't know that.

 

but if that's the case, than I fail to see why they wouldn't do something like that with a child.

[Grieving Natashina]

I think they should have yes, but we don't know if they did or not

I figured if they had, a line would have been thrown in stating something like, "Her teachers suggested moving to a different Circle, but the child could not be consoled."  I do agree that we can't speak for certain about whether or not the more senior mages tried to help the girl.

 

Again, I'm leaning on the side of cynical here.  I honestly think they didn't try because it's easier to let a little girl be stripped of emotions rather than find her more help. 

[Hellion Rex]

I think everyone can figure out that it was never an option, there is no way the White would want to do something like that.

Except the Whites have cooperated with Tevinter on occassion. Asunder spoiler, but

Spoiler

Rhys spent time working under a Senior Enchanter who was staying in Minrathous as a liason to the Blacks

But the Whites and Blacks could indeed work together on occasion. I just wish we had more background on this situation.

[EmissaryofLies]

lol the whites and blacks haha

[TheLastArchivist]

It pains me to say it but Meredith was right. There was blood magic in the circle or at the very least just Orsino. And Orsino learned it from some complete nutjob who happened to be a mage. She didn't call the right of annulment because of Anders, it was the blood magic. The only thing Anders did was get rid of the one that was holding her leash.

What bothers me is that even if we know the mages are being terribly oppressed in the Gallows, some of them still think it's OK to dabble in blood magic.

The fact that even Orsino was involved in it (as some people commented on the thread) shows that Meredith was right. The Circle was corrupt in the source. (There's even a letter adressed to Quentin -the killer of women that Emeric was investigating- signed 'O', of Orsino.)

 

However, she was wrong in evoking the Right of Anullment. The right move would have been to search the Gallows, which was what she originally intended to do. However, Meredith's paranoia was fuelled by the idol and, instead of bringing justice to the mage problem, she just wanted to eliminate anyone who she saw as a threat.

 

If it hadn't been for the idol, the crisis would never have escalated so quickly. The Gallows would've been searched, the blood mages would've been killed and Orsino himself would be hanged. But there was never a need for such massacre.

[Hellion Rex]

Or maybe he wasn't allowed to. Maybe he was sneaking there. We don't know that.

 

but if that's the case, than I fail to see why they wouldn't do something like that with a child.

I had always assumed that he had to leave secretly from the Gallows. I don't think that Meredith would have allowed a Dreamer to be transferred to Tevinter.

WAY too much of a risk.

[Grieving Natashina]

Except the Whites have cooperated with Tevinter on occassion. Asunder spoiler, but

Spoiler

Rhys spent time working under a Senior Enchanter who was staying in Minrathous as a liason to the Blacks

But the Whites and Blacks could indeed work together on occasion. I just wish we had more background on this situation.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but...You managed to get right back to the original intent of the thread my friend.  

[Grieving Natashina]

I had always assumed that he had to leave secretly from the Gallows. I don't think that Meredith would have allowed a Dreamer to be transferred to Tevinter.

WAY too much of a risk.

 

I have never sent him back to the Gallows, so I'm not sure how that might work.  I figured that the Dalish smuggled him using the old slaver caves and such around Sundermount to get him away from Kirkwall.