8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

durasteel wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
...
And i despise the notion of viewing the Templars in the light of religious Zealots who are addicted to narcotics; Lyrium has degenerative effects upon the person consuming it regularly, this is true for mage and templar both. And yet i hear no one claiming mages are smoking crack and going insane from it. What their personal faith is and how strong they carry it doesn't deterimine their duties, Note i said it doesn't determine their duties but i am well aware of the codex that made it out that they seek those with out flawless moral centers and those of strong faith.
...

We've never seen a mage in the game whose noodle was cooked from lyrium use, but the DAverse is full of Templars and ex-Templars who are recovering addicts or who have a lot of bulbs burned out on the tree from it.

The hermit in DAO.

[durasteel]

Master Warder Z wrote...

If you count being free as running from hovel to hovel every few years.

Given how she speaks of her early life i doubt she approves of being "free" either.

Clearly she prefers life in the Circle to life as a fugitive, I said that already. I meant that she wanted a "normal" life. To live with her family, neither hunted nor caged. Y'know... freedom.

[durasteel]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The hermit in DAO.

Was that from lyrium? I thought he was just generally nuts.

[durasteel]

inconsiderate rick wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
"At this point, the Chantry called for a holy war against the elves that became known as the Exalted March of the Dales. While the elves eventually sacked Val Royeaux and pushed well into human lands, Halamshiral was conquered and the elves were completely crushed by 2:20 Glory."

What's the source for this quote? The WoT doesn't mention that Val Royeaux was ever sacked by the elves; is there a codex entry from the games that states this? Thanks in advance.

So it looks like the text eluvianx quoted comes from the wiki page. The cite for that info is "Dragon Age: Origins: Prima Official Game Guide, Collector's Edition, p. 342"

I don't know where the Prima guide ranks in terms of lore authority.

[Master Warder Z_]

durasteel wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
...
And i despise the notion of viewing the Templars in the light of religious Zealots who are addicted to narcotics; Lyrium has degenerative effects upon the person consuming it regularly, this is true for mage and templar both. And yet i hear no one claiming mages are smoking crack and going insane from it. What their personal faith is and how strong they carry it doesn't deterimine their duties, Note i said it doesn't determine their duties but i am well aware of the codex that made it out that they seek those with out flawless moral centers and those of strong faith.
...

We've never seen a mage in the game whose noodle was cooked from lyrium use, but the DAverse is full of Templars and ex-Templars who are recovering addicts or who have a lot of bulbs burned out on the tree from it.

The Ancient Magisters were so horribly warped from overuse of it; Apparently they resembled Monsters more then people.

.-. No perhaps it doesn't get to that extent these days but given how many nutter mages are out there you cannot help but wonder if its from overusage of lyrium.

[ShadowLordXII]

durasteel wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The hermit in DAO.

Was that from lyrium? I thought he was just generally nuts.

Nothing suggests that the guy was lyrium-addled. He just has a heavy case of paranoia.

As for mages being addicted to lyrium, we've never seen or heard of such a thing in the games or the books. Likely because mages don't need it as much as templars considering a mage's natural connection to the Fade and apparently only use lyrium for powerful rituals or to replenish mana when necessary. But it appears that mages are less susceptible to lyrium addiction than non-mages unless DA:I shows otherwise.

[durasteel]

Master Warder Z wrote...

The Ancient Magisters were so horribly warped from overuse of it; Apparently they resembled Monsters more then people.

And still it wasn't enough for them, they had to slaughter thousands for the power of their blood even before they tried to tear the Veil. It makes you really want to see what Minrathous looks like, doesn't it? 

[ShadowLordXII]

Master Warder Z wrote...

durasteel wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
...
And i despise the notion of viewing the Templars in the light of religious Zealots who are addicted to narcotics; Lyrium has degenerative effects upon the person consuming it regularly, this is true for mage and templar both. And yet i hear no one claiming mages are smoking crack and going insane from it. What their personal faith is and how strong they carry it doesn't deterimine their duties, Note i said it doesn't determine their duties but i am well aware of the codex that made it out that they seek those with out flawless moral centers and those of strong faith.
...

We've never seen a mage in the game whose noodle was cooked from lyrium use, but the DAverse is full of Templars and ex-Templars who are recovering addicts or who have a lot of bulbs burned out on the tree from it.

The Ancient Magisters were so horribly warped from overuse of it; Apparently they resembled Monsters more then people.

.-. No perhaps it doesn't get to that extent these days but given how many nutter mages are out there you cannot help but wonder if its from overusage of lyrium.

Do we have any definite cases of modern day lyrium-addicted mages?

[Master Warder Z_]

ShadowLordXII wrote...

durasteel wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The hermit in DAO.

Was that from lyrium? I thought he was just generally nuts.

Nothing suggests that the guy was lyrium-addled. He just has a heavy case of paranoia.

As for mages being addicted to lyrium, we've never seen or heard of such a thing in the games or the books. Likely because mages don't need it as much as templars considering a mage's natural connection to the Fade and apparently only use lyrium for powerful rituals or to replenish mana when necessary. But it appears that mages are less susceptible to lyrium addiction than non-mages unless DA:I shows otherwise.

Considering the fact that Magisters were using it to the point that they stopped looking like people?

I think we can safely assume Mages can become addicted to it. (Unless if they were completely obessed with power i guess...Given the society either of these answers work i suppose)

And again i would point out that a great deal of Mage parnonia and insanity would make a great deal more sense if they were reacting negatively to lyrium or suffering withdraw.

Its just a thought that has been coming back to me more and more.

[Philosophaster]

durasteel wrote...

inconsiderate rick wrote...

eluvianix wrote...
"At this point, the Chantry called for a holy war against the elves that became known as the Exalted March of the Dales. While the elves eventually sacked Val Royeaux and pushed well into human lands, Halamshiral was conquered and the elves were completely crushed by 2:20 Glory."

What's the source for this quote? The WoT doesn't mention that Val Royeaux was ever sacked by the elves; is there a codex entry from the games that states this? Thanks in advance.

So it looks like the text eluvianx quoted comes from the wiki page. The cite for that info is "Dragon Age: Origins: Prima Official Game Guide, Collector's Edition, p. 342"

I don't know where the Prima guide ranks in terms of lore authority.

Thank you. Regardless of lore authority ranking, I am glad it turned out to be more than just conjecture that found its way on to the wiki and that it actually has a source behind it.

Modifié par inconsiderate rick, 19 février 2014 - 11:20 .

[Master Warder Z_]

ShadowLordXII wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

durasteel wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...
...
And i despise the notion of viewing the Templars in the light of religious Zealots who are addicted to narcotics; Lyrium has degenerative effects upon the person consuming it regularly, this is true for mage and templar both. And yet i hear no one claiming mages are smoking crack and going insane from it. What their personal faith is and how strong they carry it doesn't deterimine their duties, Note i said it doesn't determine their duties but i am well aware of the codex that made it out that they seek those with out flawless moral centers and those of strong faith.
...

We've never seen a mage in the game whose noodle was cooked from lyrium use, but the DAverse is full of Templars and ex-Templars who are recovering addicts or who have a lot of bulbs burned out on the tree from it.

The Ancient Magisters were so horribly warped from overuse of it; Apparently they resembled Monsters more then people.

.-. No perhaps it doesn't get to that extent these days but given how many nutter mages are out there you cannot help but wonder if its from overusage of lyrium.

Do we have any definite cases of modern day lyrium-addicted mages?

None that i am aware of but that doesn't magically negate it from being possible when its already been confirmed to be possible.

Lyrium is still flowing to the surface and Mages still hoard the stuff.

[durasteel]

Clearly Orsino was not in full possession of his reason and faculties. Maybe lyrium poisoning might explain his meltdown.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The Sack of Valroyeaux is a kind of unclear. I figured there was because it was mentioned and sourced in the wiki but since WoT mentions just about everything the wiki does about the Exalted March on the Dales, but doesn't mention the elves actually breaching the gates of Val Royeaux, I suspect it's possible it was a detail that was changed. The Prima Guide has one or two things that are outdated lore that the devs changed their minds about.

[dragonflight288]

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Personally? I find this line by Fenris pretty much sums up Merril to a T.

Fenris: Ignore the tiger not its fault its going to eat you.

._. Idiotic Blood Mage Craven. 

I rather liked Merrill, and I respected her for trying to end the plight of the People. I think about this quote from Merrill when I think about the character: "Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't."

I'm hoping that, in the playthrough where Merrill opposed Meredith at the heart of templar power over eastern Thedas, the Dalish Inquisitor can speak positively about her, similar to how an apostate Champion can be a hero to the mages if Hawke opposes Meredith's Right of Annulment, in the same way a supporter of Meredith can become a hero to the templars by aiding the Knight-Commander.

I know that since the Elf Mage will have a Dalish backstory, I plan on making a Merrill.

I plan on beheading a merril if she pops up in game 

You plan on beheading any mage in this game if an opportunity presents itself, so I'm not surprised.:innocent:

Not "any" just those part of the rebellion that i encounter in my path.

*gives an egg roll*

:innocent:

Although this has probably been addressed, I don't know I have two more pages to read to be fully caught up, I thought I'd comment on this comment.

Wouldn't EVERY mage be part of the rebellion merely as a matter of technicality now because the Nevarran Accord was declared void by Lambert in Asunder? The Nevarran Accord granted mages their rights and a place to live, even if most of those rights had been taken away in the 700 years since the Circle was founded, like a council of senior enchanters being the ones in charge of governing the circles and the templars weren't to be involved but merely watch and advice.

Without that accord, every single mage technically is worthy of death because there are no Circle's anymore. The circle's declared their independence, the Chantry agreed, the templars and Seekers left the Chantry and declared the Nevarran Accord void, and all bets are off. 

[Master Warder Z_]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Personally? I find this line by Fenris pretty much sums up Merril to a T.

Fenris: Ignore the tiger not its fault its going to eat you.

._. Idiotic Blood Mage Craven. 

I rather liked Merrill, and I respected her for trying to end the plight of the People. I think about this quote from Merrill when I think about the character: "Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't."

I'm hoping that, in the playthrough where Merrill opposed Meredith at the heart of templar power over eastern Thedas, the Dalish Inquisitor can speak positively about her, similar to how an apostate Champion can be a hero to the mages if Hawke opposes Meredith's Right of Annulment, in the same way a supporter of Meredith can become a hero to the templars by aiding the Knight-Commander.

I know that since the Elf Mage will have a Dalish backstory, I plan on making a Merrill.

I plan on beheading a merril if she pops up in game 

You plan on beheading any mage in this game if an opportunity presents itself, so I'm not surprised.:innocent:

Not "any" just those part of the rebellion that i encounter in my path.

*gives an egg roll*

:innocent:

Although this has probably been addressed, I don't know I have two more pages to read to be fully caught up, I thought I'd comment on this comment.

Wouldn't EVERY mage be part of the rebellion merely as a matter of technicality now because the Nevarran Accord was declared void by Lambert in Asunder? The Nevarran Accord granted mages their rights and a place to live, even if most of those rights had been taken away in the 700 years since the Circle was founded, like a council of senior enchanters being the ones in charge of governing the circles and the templars weren't to be involved but merely watch and advice.

Without that accord, every single mage technically is worthy of death because there are no Circle's anymore. The circle's declared their independence, the Chantry agreed, the templars and Seekers left the Chantry and declared the Nevarran Accord void, and all bets are off. 

Mmm indeed. Which was my point when i said any Mage part of the rebellion.

Which in my mind equates any mage that did not stay loyal to the Chantry or whom will be of service to my own cause. Every one else dies, simple.

Well at least you got the implication for what i was going for neh?

Aa it will be a good day in the game world when i can just stroll about my business along Inquistion controlled highways and roads.

The roadway decorate with row after row of spiked wood each adorned with a severed mage head.

The ground stained with an ocean of mage blood, Course then we will need inquistion mages to repair the veil in the area else the stupid thing will get ripped over trade routes.

[Grieving Natashina]

 @Warden I was reading your post while listening to A kickass OCD remix of Those Chosen By the Planet. I think I found the theme song for your Inquisitor. 
 

Also, your post nicely sums up why we need more of a balanced view of Templars and Mages.  I doubt it was your intent, but it still works. 

[Master Warder Z_]

Starsyn wrote...

 @Warden I was reading your post while listening to A kickass OCD remix of Those Chosen By the Planet. I think I found the theme song for your Inquisitor. 
 

Also, your post nicely sums up why we need more of a balanced view of Templars and Mages.  I doubt it was your intent, but it still works. 

Oh no i agree whole heartedly we need far more moderates in both camps.

I just don't count myself among Moderates because the situation has gone beyond Moderation; Not to say it cannot return to that position its just that something will have to occur to force that outcome.

[Grieving Natashina]

Agreed that we need more moderates on both sides, but I disagree with your view that it's too late.


By the way, I hope you liked the track!

[EmperorSahlertz]

durasteel wrote...

eluvianix wrote...

durasteel wrote...
I have looked for any indication that Val Royeaux was sacked by the elves. I haven't found it. I don't think it happened.

"At this point, the Chantry called for a holy war against the elves that became known as the Exalted March of the Dales. While the elves eventually sacked Val Royeaux and pushed well into human lands, Halamshiral was conquered and the elves were completely crushed by 2:20 Glory."

So the elves managed to wreak havok even after the Exalted March, making gains for a time against the combined might of the Chantry and Orlais. Impressive. It reminds me of the slave rebellion in Rome about 70 years BC, the one led by Spartacus. Although apparently doomed to inevitable failure almost from the start, they certainly did make a huge mess before the end.

The Seige of Val Royaux happened before the Exalted March. The Chantry was uninvolved in the war until after the sacking of Montsimmard, and the Exalted March didn't enter into effect until during or after the sacking of Val Royaux.

[Martyr1777]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Oh no i agree whole heartedly we need far more moderates in both camps.

I just don't count myself among Moderates because the situation has gone beyond Moderation; Not to say it cannot return to that position its just that something will have to occur to force that outcome.

Interesting when you keep in mind it was unltimately a moderate mage the made the call for war on their part. Had his reasons but still says something about the situation.

I'm honestly curious to see how this plays out though, because I can't see any real sensble way Bioware can write up a story once the conflict is resolved that works. I mean everyones looked down the road of the Circles, while it worked for a while they all know it would end in the same result at some point if they go back to it. But then there isn't really another route to go either that would be any more effective in my mind.

[Master Warder Z_]

Starsyn wrote...

Agreed that we need more moderates on both sides, but I disagree with your view that it's too late.


By the way, I hope you liked the track!

Never had myself compared to Sephiroth before...

Like the song though

[Master Warder Z_]

Martyr1777 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Oh no i agree whole heartedly we need far more moderates in both camps.

I just don't count myself among Moderates because the situation has gone beyond Moderation; Not to say it cannot return to that position its just that something will have to occur to force that outcome.

Interesting when you keep in mind it was unltimately a moderate mage the made the call for war on their part. Had his reasons but still says something about the situation.

I'm honestly curious to see how this plays out though, because I can't see any real sensble way Bioware can write up a story once the conflict is resolved that works. I mean everyones looked down the road of the Circles, while it worked for a while they all know it would end in the same result at some point if they go back to it. But then there isn't really another route to go either that would be any more effective in my mind.

Rhys was an extremist for 90% of his Enchanter Days.

Becoming a Moderate for the last fifteen seconds of his life doens't make him "not an extremist".

Like Malcolm X magically not being a bigoted, Racist, Driven by thoughts of Hate, Genocide and Murder when he advocated all those things for decades and yet magically he isn't that when he died?

I'l quote Leia on Darth Vader here.

"Ten minutes of good doesn't make up for two decades of evil".

[Grieving Natashina]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Agreed that we need more moderates on both sides, but I disagree with your view that it's too late.


By the way, I hope you liked the track!

Never had myself compared to Sephiroth before...

Like the song though

It wasn't a direct comparison; even as an extreme Warden/Hawke, you don't strike me as that crazy.  I think your PCs would rather rule the world than destroy it. 

Personally, I'm more old school (my favorites are FFIV and FFVI,) but the song seemed to fit your description there.  I'm a huge fan of OCDremix, since they have remixes of so many games in various styles, so I try to spread the word where applicable.

[Master Warder Z_]

Starsyn wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Starsyn wrote...

Agreed that we need more moderates on both sides, but I disagree with your view that it's too late.


By the way, I hope you liked the track!

Never had myself compared to Sephiroth before...

Like the song though

It wasn't a direct comparison; even as an extreme Warden/Hawke, you don't strike me as that crazy.  I think your PCs would rather rule the world than destroy it. 

Personally, I'm more old school (my favorites are FFIV and FFVI,) but the song seemed to fit your description there.  I'm a huge fan of OCDremix, since they have remixes of so many games in various styles, so I try to spread the word where applicable.

...*Has occasionally pondered thoughts of world domination before*

._. 

fc02.deviantart.net/fs29/f/2008/147/f/d/Akatsuki_World_Domination_x3_by_yamapiggy.png

A few of My PC's fit that bill i guess.

A few just don't care for Mages running loose and a handful just like gutting people with pointy sticks made out of steel.

[Martyr1777]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Martyr1777 wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

Oh no i agree whole heartedly we need far more moderates in both camps.

I just don't count myself among Moderates because the situation has gone beyond Moderation; Not to say it cannot return to that position its just that something will have to occur to force that outcome.

Interesting when you keep in mind it was unltimately a moderate mage the made the call for war on their part. Had his reasons but still says something about the situation.

I'm honestly curious to see how this plays out though, because I can't see any real sensble way Bioware can write up a story once the conflict is resolved that works. I mean everyones looked down the road of the Circles, while it worked for a while they all know it would end in the same result at some point if they go back to it. But then there isn't really another route to go either that would be any more effective in my mind.

Rhys was an extremist for 90% of his Enchanter Days.

Becoming a Moderate for the last fifteen seconds of his life doens't make him "not an extremist".

Like Malcolm X magically not being a bigoted, Racist, Driven by thoughts of Hate, Genocide and Murder when he advocated all those things for decades and yet magically he isn't that when he died?

I'l quote Leia on Darth Vader here.

"Ten minutes of good doesn't make up for two decades of evil".

No way can I say Rhys was an extremeist. He wasn't always as moderate as he was at the end there obviously, but he was no where near the level of Fiona or Adrian.

He was upset about things but still collected, I mean the worst he ever did was be a little bit out spoken a couple times like during Wynne's speach. It even says he was never really comfortable with any of the Libertarians aside from Adrian, and when he saw that side of the extremism it even drove him away from her, who could arguably have been called his best friend at the start.

Rhys was by no means ever an extremist, just a moderate that spoke out a couple times and was unhappy with the situation.