8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

If the eluvians take you some place beyond the veil, then why have the two times they've been used, beings from the fade have come from them? The fade beast in DAO and the demon in DA2?

About the only time this didn't happen was witch hunt, and there was no indication as to whether a demon hadn't come out of the mirror before we arrived and morrigan simply defeated it.

[durasteel]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
So you know who you're supporting, their past ridiculouslness, and their intollerable way of discussion that borderlines trolling, and you're okay with that?

No, I just am aware of the fact that I'm a terrible person. You should all be terrified.

Or maybe that was terrific... I can't remember any more.

Maybe I should have been more specific, eg "I like you, at the moment."

I shrug.

[AresKeith]

LobselVith8 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Because Merrill is an idiot for not listening in the first place, everything that happened was the result of her actions because Merrill thought she could handle it

Marethari refused to take her clan and leave Sundermount, despite the fact that Merrill explicitly notes that Marethari should have done this years ago. It's not Merrill's fault that Marethari was played by Audacity, who is likely the source of Marethari's belief that it could escape from a restored Eluvian (which is unlikely, given what Morrigan says about the Eluvians leading to a place "beyond this world, and beyond the Fade").

AresKeith wrote...

I never claimed that Marethari's plan was perfect, but her reasons for doing it was to protect Merrill from the demon

You don't protect someone from a creature of the Beyond by setting it free, letting it possess you, and then trying to kill the person you wanted to keep safe.

1. what does that have to do with Merrill's actions?

2. I like how you keep ignoring that Marethari asked/told Merrill to kill to stop Audacity before the demon took full control and attacked. Most likely because you don't wanna place some of the blame on someone you romanced

[Xilizhra]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If the eluvians take you some place beyond the veil, then why have the two times they've been used, beings from the fade have come from them? The fade beast in DAO and the demon in DA2?

About the only time this didn't happen was witch hunt, and there was no indication as to whether a demon hadn't come out of the mirror before we arrived and morrigan simply defeated it.

No fade beast came out of the Eluvian in DAO. I know they have the same model as the fade rifter, but it was clearly labeled as a bereskarn; it came along with the darkspawn because of the taint in the Eluvian.

As for DA2... literally nothing ever comes out of the Eluvian, we only have the word of an abomination.

[Steelcan]

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

[LobselVith8]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If the eluvians take you some place beyond the veil, then why have the two times they've been used, beings from the fade have come from them? The fade beast in DAO and the demon in DA2?

No demons have come out of the Eluvians in Origins or Dragon Age II. Tamlen saw an underground city when he initially approached the mirror, and that was it. No creature in Dragon Age II ever came out of Merrill's constructed mirror.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

About the only time this didn't happen was witch hunt, and there was no indication as to whether a demon hadn't come out of the mirror before we arrived and morrigan simply defeated it.

Since it never happened in Origins or Dragon Age II, I'm not certain why you think it might have happened in "Witch Hunt".

[wcholcombe]

Xil,

This is why we shouldn't have discussions. You can't admit the faults of any mage ever in DA. I readily admit that there are failings of the Templars and Chantry, but I also hold Mages up to being just as responsible. Without your willingness to do the same I am afraid an intelligent discussion is not possible and we are both just wasting our time.

[TheKomandorShepard]

The Hierophant wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Depends on context. The slavery system is terrible.

Slavery isn't Tevinter's only problem. If someone doesn't approve of people being discriminated against and barred from positions power based on their birth and doesn't approve of a caste system, then what's there to defend?

Well it isn't only tevinter problem only thedas because well on such rule run mages in rest of thedas outside tevinter , low-born peoples in entire thedas or simple casteless.

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 février 2014 - 07:02 .

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

Which shows perfectly just how bad all their arguments are, since Merrill doesn't work either.

This is why we shouldn't have discussions. You can't admit the faults
of any mage ever in DA. I readily admit that there are failings of the
Templars and Chantry, but I also hold Mages up to being just as
responsible. Without your willingness to do the same I am afraid an
intelligent discussion is not possible and we are both just wasting our
time.

If you'll recall, I've faulted Marethari, Tahrone, Decimus and Quentin all in this very discussion, and them and a few others like Uldred and Irving in past ones. Believe me, there are certainly mages who can do wrong.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 février 2014 - 07:03 .

[Veruin]

wcholcombe wrote...

Xil,

This is why we shouldn't have discussions. You can't admit the faults of any mage ever in DA. I readily admit that there are failings of the Templars and Chantry, but I also hold Mages up to being just as responsible. Without your willingness to do the same I am afraid an intelligent discussion is not possible and we are both just wasting our time.

Xilizhra wrote...
Congratulations, you figured out which side is in the right! Have an admittedly delayed cookie.

Veruin wrote...
The right side of anything is whatever Xil says it is.  Anything else is wrong.

Modifié par Veruin, 20 février 2014 - 07:04 .

[shit's fucked cunts]

Merrill is delicious. Did I mention that? Yeah. That's my argument.

[LobselVith8]

AresKeith wrote...

1. what does that have to do with Merrill's actions?

Considering you're blaming Merrill because Marethari set Audacity free and became an abomination, I'm not certain what any of this actually has to do with Merrill, since she isn't responsible for the actions of another adult.

AresKeith wrote...

2. I like how you keep ignoring that Marethari asked/told Merrill to kill to stop Audacity before the demon took full control and attacked. Most likely because you don't wanna place some of the blame on someone you romanced.

No, Marethari told Merrill that in order for her to be stopped (since she was now an abomination), she needed to be killed; this is why the Champion can explicitly mentioned during the deception scene that she said that she needed to die in order to defeat the abomination.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

Which shows perfectly just how bad all their arguments are, since Merrill doesn't work either.

I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually possessed by a Demon of Stupidity or something, I mean how can someone be so dumb and still be breathing?

[durasteel]

The Sundermount demon never comes from the eluvian. Marethari claims that it could have, but she released it from a statue without the mirror ever being involved.

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

Which shows perfectly just how bad all their arguments are, since Merrill doesn't work either.

A naive mage who does blood mage, listened to a demon about a mirrior and became obsessed with it, refused to listen to anyone without thinking of the consequences of those actions

That's a pretty good argument

[Veruin]

Steelcan wrote...

I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually possessed by a Demon of Stupidity or something, I mean how can someone be so dumb and still be breathing?

Because DA2 and because ditsy is considered cute and innocent.

[durasteel]

Steelcan wrote...
I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually possessed by a Demon of Stupidity or something, I mean how can someone be so dumb and still be breathing?

I assume you're talking about Marethari.

[LobselVith8]

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

An intelligent mage who shows her proficiency with magic across several years, is able to identify whether a person is possessed or not, refuses to abuse her blood magic abilities, and is willing to protect men, women, and children from genocide (even if it means she'll die in the process) is an example for the Chantry controlled Circles?

I respectfully disagree.

[KaiserShep]

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

Not really. Granted, her position is far more precarious because of her blood magic, but mages like Quentin, Idunna, Gascard, etc. are much better reasons to have a system like the Circle, whereas Merrill has been nothing but benign, as far as we know.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 20 février 2014 - 07:07 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

If the eluvians take you some place beyond the veil, then why have the two times they've been used, beings from the fade have come from them? The fade beast in DAO and the demon in DA2?

About the only time this didn't happen was witch hunt, and there was no indication as to whether a demon hadn't come out of the mirror before we arrived and morrigan simply defeated it.

No fade beast came out of the Eluvian in DAO. I know they have the same model as the fade rifter, but it was clearly labeled as a bereskarn; it came along with the darkspawn because of the taint in the Eluvian.

As for DA2... literally nothing ever comes out of the Eluvian, we only have the word of an abomination.

And empirically observed events. The veil being so much weaker at the mirriors site in DAO then it is anywhere else, even with the strangeness of the forests.

I would be cautious to trust any such mirrior if one contained darkspawn taint, and the other a demon.

[Steelcan]

Veruin wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually possessed by a Demon of Stupidity or something, I mean how can someone be so dumb and still be breathing?

Because DA2 and because ditsy is considered cute and innocent.

I'm only disappointed there wasn't a "Hand over Merrill to the Templars/Her own Clan/wandering clowns/Danarius/anybody but me, option

Modifié par Steelcan, 20 février 2014 - 07:07 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Xilizhra wrote...
If you'll be kind enough to read the full quote, it was "not wanting to see humans suffer IRL."

I'll elaborate, you seem pretty defensive of certain fictional characters, but are directly hostile to fictional characters who don't follow your reasoning 100%. Again GG.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

Well, aside from the inherent irony of "reatrded," it was the choice of her clan to attack and no one else's. And she hasn't actually destroyed anything ever apart from enemies, so... I don't really know where you're coming from.

A naive mage who does blood mage, listened to a demon about a mirrior and became obsessed with it, refused to listen to anyone without thinking of the consequences of those actions

None of her actions did anything bad directly; it was all other peoples' reactions to them, out of fear and pride, that did the damage.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Merrill isn't retarded; she has her own agenda, and it isn't her fault if her fellow flower-pickers get involved or not.

[Cainhurst Crow]

KaiserShep wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

Not really. Granted, her position is far more precarious because of her blood magic, but mages like Quentin, Idunna, Gascard, etc. are much better reasons to have a system like the Circle.

And Conner.