8640 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

OnionXI wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

wcholcombe wrote...

Or, Merril could have just listened to Marethari who knew a great deal more than she did and avoided the whole thing, but what happened her pride led her back to a pride demon. So yes, it was Merrils fault.

Merrill extrapolated information from the shard and studied the lore on the Eluvians. What exactly did Marethari do to prove she knew more than Merrill, aside from jump from one baseless conclusion to another between Acts II and III? And considering that Marethari is the one who let Audacity free, I'm not going to blame Merrill for the Keeper's actions when Merrill refused to let Audacity free for years.

Marethari claimed she let Audacity free to protect Merrill, then proceeded to try to kill Merrill as an abomination. You don't see the flaw in Marethari's logic?

So add Marethari to the list of stupid mages?

I don't think Marethari's solution was all that great but I have a hard time trusting Merrill to know what she's doing. Night Terrors showed that she's susceptible to pride demons. Her repeated assurances that she's in control in her dealings with the demon is pure pride.

And everyone who criticizes her in the party also fall victim. If Merrill isn't in the party, it's Fenris who wants power to rival the magisters. If neither Merrill or Fenris is in the party, it's Varric who is offered revenge against Bartrand. Isabella and Aveline fall victim to a Desire Demon.

The only one who doesn't get tricked is Justice, since Anders isn't there mentally at all and Justice is already a spirit. 

I won't deny that Merrill has a lot of pride, she trumps everyone when it comes to the Pride Demon making an offer, but this quest can't be used against her while not being used against every one else who joins Hawke's party as well. 

Not to mention Merrill actively gives solid advice on how to resist demons. She recognizes Torpor as a Sloth Demon and tells Hawke to think active thoughts like running and jumping as a way to resist. She can tell if Kerren is possessed or not by examining his blood, whereas Anders simply blasts him with magic and figures since he didn't fight back he's not possessed. 

She is probably one of the most knowledgable people we meet in the game when it comes to spirits and the Fade. Add in that people who use her falling to the Pride demon in Feynriel's dream often overlook her apology later, and how she learned her lesson. And her explanation that she, and everyone else who explains why they betrayed Hawke, lost control. They couldn't control themselves. The demons were mind controlling them to a certain extent. 

[AresKeith]

LobselVith8 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

1. what does that have to do with Merrill's actions?

Considering you're blaming Merrill because Marethari set Audacity free and became an abomination, I'm not certain what any of this actually has to do with Merrill, since she isn't responsible for the actions of another adult.

AresKeith wrote...

2. I like how you keep ignoring that Marethari asked/told Merrill to kill to stop Audacity before the demon took full control and attacked. Most likely because you don't wanna place some of the blame on someone you romanced.

No, Marethari told Merrill that in order for her to be stopped (since she was now an abomination), she needed to be killed; this is why the Champion can explicitly mentioned during the deception scene that she said that she needed to die in order to defeat the abomination.

1, I'm blaming both Merrill and Marethari, but Merrill does get most of the blame for being naive and refusing to listen

2. Which is what she said before she even attacks them

[Steelcan]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

An intelligent mage who shows her proficiency with magic across several years, is able to identify whether a person is possessed or not, refuses to abuse her blood magic abilities, and is willing to protect men, women, and children from genocide (even if it means she'll die in the process) is an example for the Chantry controlled Circles?

I respectfully disagree.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA


oh that was funny, that was just great


please, keep that stuff coming

[TK514]

wcholcombe wrote...
 Without your willingness to do the same I am afraid an intelligent discussion is not possible and we are both just wasting our time.

You can remember this in the future and save yourself some typing, because this is going to be the end result, every single time.

[Xilizhra]

And empirically observed events. The veil being so much weaker at the mirriors site in DAO then it is anywhere else, even with the strangeness of the forests.

I don't think the Veil is abnormally thin at that spot. All we see is undead, and we see a lot more in the Brecilian Forest.

I would be cautious to trust any such mirrior if one contained darkspawn taint, and the other a demon.

The taint is gone, which Anders can confirm, and anything about a demon is complete speculation.

I'll elaborate, you seem pretty defensive of certain fictional characters, but are directly hostile to fictional characters who don't follow your reasoning 100%. Again GG.

I'm sorry; that did go too far. My blood was already up from those launching numerous direct attacks when I came in.

[TheKomandorShepard]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

An intelligent mage who shows her proficiency with magic across several years, is able to identify whether a person is possessed or not, refuses to abuse her blood magic abilities, and is willing to protect men, women, and children from genocide (even if it means she'll die in the process) is an example for the Chantry controlled Circles?

I respectfully disagree.

Yes person who was puppet for pride demon twice and was very intelligent she was one of the dumbest characters we saw in da universe her plot armor was only thing that was preventing her from becoming abomnation...

Modifié par TheKomandorShepard, 20 février 2014 - 07:11 .

[LobselVith8]

Steelcan wrote...

I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

The clan dies if they try to commit cold-blooded murder.

Steelcan wrote...

I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually possessed by a Demon of Stupidity or something, I mean how can someone be so dumb and still be breathing? 

Merrill has culture shock in human civilization, but I've often seen people consider newcomers to a different society as dumb for not instantly understanding an entirely different culture. Merrill demonstrates her intellect time and again throughout the narrative, from her mastery of magic (and blood magic) to her ability to identify if Kerran is possessed and the nature of the Profane Abomination.

[Cainhurst Crow]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Merrill is single handedly the best argument for the circle the Chantry could ever come up with

An intelligent mage who shows her proficiency with magic across several years, is able to identify whether a person is possessed or not, refuses to abuse her blood magic abilities, and is willing to protect men, women, and children from genocide (even if it means she'll die in the process) is an example for the Chantry controlled Circles?

I respectfully disagree.

Is that why hawke had to remind her that Marethari was possessed?

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 20 février 2014 - 07:10 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...


Well, aside from the inherent irony of "reatrded," it was the choice of her clan to attack and no one else's. And she hasn't actually destroyed anything ever apart from enemies, so... I don't really know where you're coming from.

None of her actions did anything bad directly; it was all other peoples' reactions to them, out of fear and pride, that did the damage.

Wasn't sure whether it was blocked or not and I didn't feel like just * a vowel, deal with it

She managed to create a situation where her mentor was killed, her clan was slaughtered, all because she can't fix a mirror that she probably shouldn't have been messing with

[AresKeith]

I miss DAO Merrill

[Steelcan]

LobselVith8 wrote...


The clan dies if they try to commit cold-blooded murder.

Merrill has culture shock in human civilization, but I've often seen people consider newcomers to a different society as dumb for not instantly understanding an entirely different culture. Merrill demonstrates her intellect time and again throughout the narrative, from her mastery of magic (and blood magic) to her ability to identify if Kerran is possessed and the nature of the Profane Abomination.

The clan dies if they try to avenge the death of their keeper at the hands of a dittering moron.

Yes her mastery of getting other people possessed.... She is an inspiration to us all

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Well, aside from the inherent irony of "reatrded," it was the choice of her clan to attack and no one else's. And she hasn't actually destroyed anything ever apart from enemies, so... I don't really know where you're coming from.

None of her actions did anything bad directly; it was all other peoples' reactions to them, out of fear and pride, that did the damage.

Wasn't sure whether it was blocked or not and I didn't feel like just * a vowel, deal with it

She managed to create a situation where her mentor was killed, her clan was slaughtered, all because she can't fix a mirror that she probably shouldn't have been messing with

Her mentor got herself possessed and the clan chose to attack of their own accord. Merrill's decisions do not predetermine the decisions of others.

[Veruin]

LobselVith8 wrote...


Merrill has culture shock in human civilization, but I've often seen people consider newcomers to a different society as dumb for not instantly understanding an entirely different culture. Merrill demonstrates her intellect time and again throughout the narrative, from her mastery of magic (and blood magic) to her ability to identify if Kerran is possessed and the nature of the Profane Abomination.

Culture shock is only a valid excuse for the first year she's there.  

[LobselVith8]

AresKeith wrote...

1, I'm blaming both Merrill and Marethari, but Merrill does get most of the blame for being naive and refusing to listen

Merrill didn't have to listen to Marethari; she did extensive research on the Eluvian, and sought to create her own. Marethari's refusal to accept Merrill's decision, and her dangerous actions that followed, don't condemn Merrill.

AresKeith wrote...

2. Which is what she said before she even attacks them

Because they need to kill Marethari in order to stop her, which is the entire point that's brought up when the abomination tries to deceive them once Merrill and Hawke have weakened it.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Merrill is intelligent; she just has a mad sense of humour. We could obviously beat those guards, so ruining the "fire" trick was inconsequential.

[Xilizhra]

Culture shock is only a valid excuse for the first year she's there.

Conveniently, that's the only time she demonstrates it to any significant extent.

[AresKeith]

Zazzerka wrote...

Merrill is intelligent; she just has a mad sense of humour. We could obviously beat those guards, so ruining the "fire" trick was inconsequential.

Go home Zazz you're drunk

[KaiserShep]

The Dalish clearly don't want vengeance for the keeper's death enough to attack Hawke if he/she takes responsibility for what happened.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 20 février 2014 - 07:13 .

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...


Her mentor got herself possessed and the clan chose to attack of their own accord. Merrill's decisions do not predetermine the decisions of others.

Her decisions are what got Marethari possessed because she stupidly messed with demons, thats like lesson one in the Circle, don't mess with demons it bites you in the ass.

[wcholcombe]

She is considered dumb by her own clan.

[LobselVith8]

Steelcan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

An intelligent mage who shows her proficiency with magic across several years, is able to identify whether a person is possessed or not, refuses to abuse her blood magic abilities, and is willing to protect men, women, and children from genocide (even if it means she'll die in the process) is an example for the Chantry controlled Circles?

I respectfully disagree. 

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA


oh that was funny, that was just great


please, keep that stuff coming 

You mean my examples of Merrill's intelligence and proficiency with magic from the actual story? Sure, no problem.

[Xilizhra]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Her mentor got herself possessed and the clan chose to attack of their own accord. Merrill's decisions do not predetermine the decisions of others.

Her decisions are what got Marethari possessed because she stupidly messed with demons, thats like lesson one in the Circle, don't mess with demons it bites you in the ass.

She did not summon a demon to force it to possess Marethari, so this denial of responsibility doesn't really work.

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Slavery isn't Tevinter's only problem. If someone doesn't approve of people being discriminated against and barred from positions power based on their birth and doesn't approve of a caste system, then what's there to defend?

Precisely my complaint with the templars. They're mirrors of each other.

I'm fairly sure what I defended was their vast store of magical knowledge that shouldn't be destroyed.

So this is an admission that you defend a peerless tyranical regime who employs discriminatory policies that you decried in others because they have magic?

If so, i see nothing wrong. Carry on.

[His Name was HYR!!]

To be fair, Merrill did take a precaution of sorts by having Hawke accompany her.

If she was possessed, she could be slain then and there, by someone who has slain Pride Demons before.

Though the fact remains that she would have been possessed had Marethari not figured out the demon's plan (unlike Merrill) and predicted Merrill would take the bait. So YES, Merrill is very much an example of what Templars are worried about.

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 20 février 2014 - 07:15 .

[AresKeith]

LobselVith8 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

1, I'm blaming both Merrill and Marethari, but Merrill does get most of the blame for being naive and refusing to listen

Merrill didn't have to listen to Marethari; she did extensive research on the Eluvian, and sought to create her own. Marethari's refusal to accept Merrill's decision, and her dangerous actions that followed, don't condemn Merrill.

And look where that got her

GG Merrill