8640 réponses à ce sujet

[Master Warder Z_]

ThisOnesUsername wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

Well, she's better than Anders.

That I agree with 

Yeah but being glassed in the face is still better than Anders.

This is true.

[Mistic]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Misticsan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

When you consider that the Dalish prohibit schools of magic that involve spirits, and how Marethari doesn't approve of the restoration of the Eluvian, than it seems like Audacity made a smart play. Teach Merrill blood magic so she could cleanse the shard, which would allow her to continue with her efforts to restore the Eluvian, and manipulate nearby Marethari in the process. 

I didn't know that piece of information. Did it appear in World of Thedas? (Damn, that means that if I roleplay a Dalish mage I'll have to forget about spirit spells).

Yes, it was mentioned in WoT, since they view all spirits as dangerous. Dalish magic has also adapted to their current way of life among nature.

Merrill does mention that the clans kill abominations if a mage gets possessed, so the People are aware of the dangers of possession. It doesn't seem to change their view on mages, though, since magic is seen as a gift of the Creators. I suppose that might factor into the decision of what some elven mages might do in post-Asunder Thedas, since an elven mage found sanctuary with Ariane's clan (and Aneirin was rescued by Zathrian's clan when he fled the Circle as a boy).

That's pretty interesting, actually. I intend to play at least once as a Dalish mage in Inquisition, since it's said that it will be one of the backgrounds available, and this information gives good tips for roleplaying a character. Merrill was an exception, not the rule, so that would mean a proper Dalish mage would distrust spirits and wouldn't use spirit spells.

I wish there was a way to stop posessions. That would solve most problems. The Rite of Tranquility, according to Asunder, only makes the potential targets unappetizing for demons, it doesn't actually stop the person from being possessed if a demon wished to do so.

[Master Warder Z_]

Misticsan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Misticsan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

When you consider that the Dalish prohibit schools of magic that involve spirits, and how Marethari doesn't approve of the restoration of the Eluvian, than it seems like Audacity made a smart play. Teach Merrill blood magic so she could cleanse the shard, which would allow her to continue with her efforts to restore the Eluvian, and manipulate nearby Marethari in the process. 

I didn't know that piece of information. Did it appear in World of Thedas? (Damn, that means that if I roleplay a Dalish mage I'll have to forget about spirit spells).

Yes, it was mentioned in WoT, since they view all spirits as dangerous. Dalish magic has also adapted to their current way of life among nature.

Merrill does mention that the clans kill abominations if a mage gets possessed, so the People are aware of the dangers of possession. It doesn't seem to change their view on mages, though, since magic is seen as a gift of the Creators. I suppose that might factor into the decision of what some elven mages might do in post-Asunder Thedas, since an elven mage found sanctuary with Ariane's clan (and Aneirin was rescued by Zathrian's clan when he fled the Circle as a boy).

That's pretty interesting, actually. I intend to play at least once as a Dalish mage in Inquisition, since it's said that it will be one of the backgrounds available, and this information gives good tips for roleplaying a character. Merrill was an exception, not the rule, so that would mean a proper Dalish mage would distrust spirits and wouldn't use spirit spells.

I wish there was a way to stop posessions. That would solve most problems. The Rite of Tranquility, according to Asunder, only makes the potential targets unappetizing for demons, it doesn't actually stop the person from being possessed if a demon wished to do so.

My Query to you would be.

Why would the Demon possess a rock over a living breathing fade conductor?

The Rite serves its purpose.

[Mistic]

Master Warder Z wrote...

My Query to you would be.

Why would the Demon possess a rock over a living breathing fade conductor?

The Rite serves its purpose.

I'd prefer to find a way in which the demon can't possess neither a rock nor a living breathing fade conductor, whether the demon likes it or not. Because they are the true menace behind the mages' "unique" danger (power abuse too, but since history is full of humans abusing their power without having magic in the equation, I think that's a more "normal" danger).

[LobselVith8]

Misticsan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Yes, it was mentioned in WoT, since they view all spirits as dangerous. Dalish magic has also adapted to their current way of life among nature.

Merrill does mention that the clans kill abominations if a mage gets possessed, so the People are aware of the dangers of possession. It doesn't seem to change their view on mages, though, since magic is seen as a gift of the Creators. I suppose that might factor into the decision of what some elven mages might do in post-Asunder Thedas, since an elven mage found sanctuary with Ariane's clan (and Aneirin was rescued by Zathrian's clan when he fled the Circle as a boy).

That's pretty interesting, actually. I intend to play at least once as a Dalish mage in Inquisition, since it's said that it will be one of the backgrounds available, and this information gives good tips for roleplaying a character. Merrill was an exception, not the rule, so that would mean a proper Dalish mage would distrust spirits and wouldn't use spirit spells.
I wish there was a way to stop posessions. That would solve most problems. The Rite of Tranquility, according to Asunder, only makes the potential targets unappetizing for demons, it doesn't actually stop the person from being possessed if a demon wished to do so. 

I don't think it would be fair to say that Merrill trusted spirits, either. She was willing to gleam information from them, but she also cautioned that spirits were dangerous - which is exactly what Hawke can do by getting information from the Profane Abomination about the Deep Roads, and from Torpor about the situation with Feynriel, without making any deal with either one of them.

Merrill does say: "Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." However, her use of blood magic would be an example of what a typical Dalish mage wouldn't engage in, so she was atypical in that regard (although she does seem to avoid using the more controverisal aspects of blood magic, like mind control, and using the life force of another person to enpower them). I think Dalish mage might have healing, and possibly other schools that involve other aspects of their magic, like nature. Commanding Sylvans would be interesting.

As for possessions, in my humble opinion, I don't think the Chantry controlled Circles help prevent them, but rather aid in enabling the situations that would create them.

[Master Warder Z_]

Misticsan wrote...

Master Warder Z wrote...

My Query to you would be.

Why would the Demon possess a rock over a living breathing fade conductor?

The Rite serves its purpose.

I'd prefer to find a way in which the demon can't possess neither a rock nor a living breathing fade conductor, whether the demon likes it or not. Because they are the true menace behind the mages' "unique" danger (power abuse too, but since history is full of humans abusing their power without having magic in the equation, I think that's a more "normal" danger).

Note i am a defender of the rite and personally don't view it as anything utterly horrorifying; My reference to the Tranquil as stone was merely a turn of phrase used due to how demons precieve them in our world and their own.

I personally do not think this is possible save completely draining a mage of his presence within the fade while somehow maintaining the connection;  Ultimately i think no easier answer will present it self to this problem.

[durasteel]

While I realise the general inapplicability of my perspective to la vida demon, I think if I had been trapped in a statue for as long as Audacity had, I might be willing to teach you blood magic just to have someone to talk to. Sure, I might try to get out at first, but if that didn't look like it was gonna happen I'd be pretty likely to just play along and see how it played out.

I mean, I'm trapped in a statue--what do I have to lose?

[Mistic]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Merrill does say: "Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't." However, her use of blood magic would be an example of what a typical Dalish mage wouldn't engage in, so she was atypical in that regard (although she does seem to avoid using the more controverisal aspects of blood magic, like mind control, and using the life force of another person to enpower them). I think Dalish mage might have healing, and possibly other schools that involve other aspects of their magic, like nature. Commanding Sylvans would be interesting.

Makes sense. The codex says the Spirit School is opposed by the Primal School, so that's an idea (seems the Spirit School is also distrusted by others, not just the Dalish). Also, the Creation School is sometimes called the School of Nature, sounds fitting. No idea about the Entropy School, though. However, it's difficult to try to join gameplay and story, since spell trees have changed from one game to the other.

Master Warder Z wrote...

I personally do not think this is possible save completely draining a mage of his presence within the fade while somehow maintaining the connection;  Ultimately i think no easier answer will present it self to this problem.

Sadly, I have to agree. It's an impossible problem since the setting is like that. As far as we know, you would have to change the very rules of the universe (in Thedas) to find that ideal solution.

Modifié par Misticsan, 20 février 2014 - 10:05 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Steelcan wrote...

I don't know, a reatrded mage running around getting her own clan slaughtered because she f*cks up everything she touches?

I wouldn't be surprised if she was actually possessed by a Demon of Stupidity or something, I mean how can someone be so dumb and still be breathing?

I can ask the same question of you.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
1) Really? I always understood it as akin to real world Crusades, which were church-led wars.

Common misconception. Learn a bit of history.
The Church was never in command of the armies. The Church would call for the Crusades and gave an objective. People would answer and go about completing in their own way.

Kings would raise an army and volonteers would join in. But it was not the pope or the priest who led that army. It was the kings and generals. And if they decided to sack a town on the way to their objective or if they decided to kill everyone, ti was their command, not the churches.
If anything, you'd find that there was not that much difference in how willing people were to listen to preists then and now. Priest say "stop, dont' do that!"? Priest ends up "tragicly killed by heatens".

I know history.

I mean I always saw the church leading the Crusades in the same way as now say a President is the Commander and Chief of modern militaries. Both are in charge of the whole thing and set objectives, yet leave how to obtain those objectives to their generals since they can't personally lead from the front lines.

[durasteel]

I see you have a few pages of catching up to do, LDS...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

durasteel wrote...

I see you have a few pages of catching up to do, LDS...

No, I got the gist of it. It became ten pages of arguing about whether Merrill was stupid or not. I am of the latter, but will not enter the argument since that is not the purpse of this thread.

[Arcanis]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
1) Really? I always understood it as akin to real world Crusades, which were church-led wars.

Common misconception. Learn a bit of history.
The Church was never in command of the armies. The Church would call for the Crusades and gave an objective. People would answer and go about completing in their own way.

Kings would raise an army and volonteers would join in. But it was not the pope or the priest who led that army. It was the kings and generals. And if they decided to sack a town on the way to their objective or if they decided to kill everyone, ti was their command, not the churches.
If anything, you'd find that there was not that much difference in how willing people were to listen to preists then and now. Priest say "stop, dont' do that!"? Priest ends up "tragicly killed by heatens".

I know history.

I mean I always saw the church leading the Crusades in the same way as now say a President is the Commander and Chief of modern militaries. Both are in charge of the whole thing and set objectives, yet leave how to obtain those objectives to their generals since they can't personally lead from the front lines.

That depends on the Crusade. Some (espicially the early one) had a "religious" leadership (as far as I remember,
been a while..) on the other hand, the infamous fith crusade (the sacking of Constantinople) was not really in the
hand of the pope. He called it for another reason and tried to stop it, but his messengers where murdered by the
wordly leaders (mostly venetians) - he then excommunicated the ENTIRE crusade.
Also: Most leaders of the catholic church at that time where nobles (mostly second or third sons) and thus a great
example of the rather wordly desires.. (aside from the first crusade, that one REALLY was called to allow pilgrims to
reach the holy city)

But this talk is moot, since Thedas uses real world history as a basic inspiration, thus they can be pretty inaccurate.
(I'm looking at you Tevinter oO) It is actually more inspirate with cliches now that I think about it...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Chaoticos wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
1) Really? I always understood it as akin to real world Crusades, which were church-led wars.

Common misconception. Learn a bit of history.
The Church was never in command of the armies. The Church would call for the Crusades and gave an objective. People would answer and go about completing in their own way.

Kings would raise an army and volonteers would join in. But it was not the pope or the priest who led that army. It was the kings and generals. And if they decided to sack a town on the way to their objective or if they decided to kill everyone, ti was their command, not the churches.
If anything, you'd find that there was not that much difference in how willing people were to listen to preists then and now. Priest say "stop, dont' do that!"? Priest ends up "tragicly killed by heatens".

I know history.

I mean I always saw the church leading the Crusades in the same way as now say a President is the Commander and Chief of modern militaries. Both are in charge of the whole thing and set objectives, yet leave how to obtain those objectives to their generals since they can't personally lead from the front lines.

That depends on the Crusade. Some (espicially the early one) had a "religious" leadership (as far as I remember,
been a while..) on the other hand, the infamous fith crusade (the sacking of Constantinople) was not really in the
hand of the pope. He called it for another reason and tried to stop it, but his messengers where murdered by the
wordly leaders (mostly venetians) - he then excommunicated the ENTIRE crusade.
Also: Most leaders of the catholic church at that time where nobles (mostly second or third sons) and thus a great
example of the rather wordly desires.. (aside from the first crusade, that one REALLY was called to allow pilgrims to
reach the holy city)

But this talk is moot, since Thedas uses real world history as a basic inspiration, thus they can be pretty inaccurate.
(I'm looking at you Tevinter oO) It is actually more inspirate with cliches now that I think about it...

Very true. Though when someone says Crusade, most think of the first three.

[Arcanis]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Chaoticos wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LDS Darth Revan wrote...
1) Really? I always understood it as akin to real world Crusades, which were church-led wars.

Common misconception. Learn a bit of history.
The Church was never in command of the armies. The Church would call for the Crusades and gave an objective. People would answer and go about completing in their own way.

Kings would raise an army and volonteers would join in. But it was not the pope or the priest who led that army. It was the kings and generals. And if they decided to sack a town on the way to their objective or if they decided to kill everyone, ti was their command, not the churches.
If anything, you'd find that there was not that much difference in how willing people were to listen to preists then and now. Priest say "stop, dont' do that!"? Priest ends up "tragicly killed by heatens".

I know history.

I mean I always saw the church leading the Crusades in the same way as now say a President is the Commander and Chief of modern militaries. Both are in charge of the whole thing and set objectives, yet leave how to obtain those objectives to their generals since they can't personally lead from the front lines.

That depends on the Crusade. Some (espicially the early one) had a "religious" leadership (as far as I remember,
been a while..) on the other hand, the infamous fith crusade (the sacking of Constantinople) was not really in the
hand of the pope. He called it for another reason and tried to stop it, but his messengers where murdered by the
wordly leaders (mostly venetians) - he then excommunicated the ENTIRE crusade.
Also: Most leaders of the catholic church at that time where nobles (mostly second or third sons) and thus a great
example of the rather wordly desires.. (aside from the first crusade, that one REALLY was called to allow pilgrims to
reach the holy city)

But this talk is moot, since Thedas uses real world history as a basic inspiration, thus they can be pretty inaccurate.
(I'm looking at you Tevinter oO) It is actually more inspirate with cliches now that I think about it...

Very true. Though when someone says Crusade, most think of the first three.

For ..personal reasons I often think of the fith =/
But as far as I remember, the first three were rather ..sincere (though I absolutly disagree with
the medieval interpretation) and a lot of the bad "press" comes from the later ones.
Well.. and the fact that we judge them with modern eyes and modern (and ancient actually) view
of christianity -but I fear that might do the germanic lifestyle a bit unjustice.
But my field of studies (I'm a historien) is old rome and greece, not mediavistic so I will stop now

Thanks for reading my rambling

[leaguer of one]

Master Warder Z wrote...

Misticsan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Misticsan wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

When you consider that the Dalish prohibit schools of magic that involve spirits, and how Marethari doesn't approve of the restoration of the Eluvian, than it seems like Audacity made a smart play. Teach Merrill blood magic so she could cleanse the shard, which would allow her to continue with her efforts to restore the Eluvian, and manipulate nearby Marethari in the process. 

I didn't know that piece of information. Did it appear in World of Thedas? (Damn, that means that if I roleplay a Dalish mage I'll have to forget about spirit spells).

Yes, it was mentioned in WoT, since they view all spirits as dangerous. Dalish magic has also adapted to their current way of life among nature.

Merrill does mention that the clans kill abominations if a mage gets possessed, so the People are aware of the dangers of possession. It doesn't seem to change their view on mages, though, since magic is seen as a gift of the Creators. I suppose that might factor into the decision of what some elven mages might do in post-Asunder Thedas, since an elven mage found sanctuary with Ariane's clan (and Aneirin was rescued by Zathrian's clan when he fled the Circle as a boy).

That's pretty interesting, actually. I intend to play at least once as a Dalish mage in Inquisition, since it's said that it will be one of the backgrounds available, and this information gives good tips for roleplaying a character. Merrill was an exception, not the rule, so that would mean a proper Dalish mage would distrust spirits and wouldn't use spirit spells.

I wish there was a way to stop posessions. That would solve most problems. The Rite of Tranquility, according to Asunder, only makes the potential targets unappetizing for demons, it doesn't actually stop the person from being possessed if a demon wished to do so.

My Query to you would be.

Why would the Demon possess a rock over a living breathing fade conductor?

The Rite serves its purpose.

Being that there more possessed trees and corpes over Abominations among the dalish points out how aoften it's needed.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 20 février 2014 - 11:30 .

[Grieving Natashina]

At least I understood why the Merrill debate just happened. Some folks were using her as an example of either why the Circle system (as stood anyhow) should stay in existence or why the Circles aren't needed.

I am not a huge fan of Merrill, though I did try her (friend) romance on my first male Hawke. She's alright, though I won't be romancing her again. Too much of the "kid sister" vibe for my taste.

To me, her and Bethany both exemplify why the Circles weren't needed. Prior to her falling out with the Keeper, Merrill had a really good teacher. She was obviously taught how to have tight control over her will (it's not perfect, but nothing is) and how to look out for others. Bethany Hawke was taught much the same thing. With Kirkwall looking so unbalanced, I thought those two characters showed the flip side of not being raised in a Circle. The better side of it.

Sadly, we saw little of this coming from the Templars. Most of the sympathetic templars were killed during DA2 and none of them were in our party. I think a templar companion in Inquisition could go a long way to understanding both sides of this stupid conflict. For the record, no, it doesn't have to be any established NPC. It could be someone brand new, but I think a non-fanatical standpoint is sorely needed.

Sometimes DA2 felt a little overwhelming. Either you had Fenris complaining about magisters, or Anders complaining about templars. Am I the only one that wanted to shout, "Shut the F*ck up for 5 minutes!" to both of them?

Speaking of which, I was floored the first time I did MotA. It was after the quest Justice and I had Anders with me. Right after the opening sequence, when Varric explains that the Carta was actively hunting Hawke (and Carter too,) Anders had the flavor dialog, "Why are we wasting our time with this when Meredith is hunting the mages right now?" (or something to that affect.) I do like Anders, but that was one of the few times in the games I wanted to donkey punch him across Thedas.

In short, it's all in how you are raised.  Having a bad or neglectful parent can screw a kid up and usually leads them down a life filled with awful, dangerous and possible fatal consequences.

[MisterJB]

Didn't one of the devs specifically say that fixing the mirror was a "bad call"?
I think it's on the DA2 forums, I remember TEWR and I discussing it...

Well, in Merril's defense, she at least never attempted to sell a slave to a Magister. I'm looking at you, Anders.

Modifié par MisterJB, 21 février 2014 - 12:23 .

[The Hierophant]

Starsyn, that's another example of Anders showing his true colors. He only cares about his cause and feigns empathy towards Hawke as he seeks to manipulate them.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 21 février 2014 - 12:25 .

[Hellion Rex]

MisterJB wrote...

Didn't one of the devs specifically say that fixing the mirror was a "bad call"?
I think it's on the DA2 forums, I remember TEWR and I discussing it...

Well, in Merril's defense, she at least never attempted to sell a slave to a Magister. I'm looking at you, Anders.

It was Mike Laidlaw who said that fixing the mirror was a "bad call". I saw that quite recently, although I can't remember where. Even though Merrill might have repaired the mirror, she couldn't make it work, at least during DA2.

Modifié par eluvianix, 21 février 2014 - 12:34 .

[Grieving Natashina]

MisterJB wrote...

Didn't one of the devs specifically say that fixing the mirror was a "bad call"?
I think it's on the DA2 forums, I remember TEWR and I discussing it...

Yeah, I'll go look that up.

Well, in Merril's defense, she at least never attempted to sell a slave to a Magister. I'm looking at you, Anders.

Hence one of the other times I wanted to donkey punch Anders.

@Hierophant  That's your opinion on the character.   That doesn't make either of us right or wrong and I certainly can see where you're coming from.

I feel much differently.  I think Anders truly did care about Hawke and wasn't just trying to play him/her.   Especially as a mage Hawke, I think Anders honestly had the best intents at heart.  After about a baker's dozen worth of playthroughs, my opinion hasn't changed. 

Please bare in mind, I'm not, nor will I ever, agree to his methods.  I think he was just as out of line blowing up the Chantry as Meredith was for calling the RoA.  Rather than try to address the problem directly, they both used that as an excuse to start a war.  

This is why more balance is needed in the story among the mages and templars.  No matter who's "side" you're on, both sides ended up looking utterly disgusting by the end of DA2.  There is a few exceptions, though YMMV of course.  

Me?  I'm on the side of compromise.  Now that the old system is largely fractured, perhaps it's time to start over.  I know it's not a very popular opinion and I won't go into that debate in this thread.  Not really on topic.

[Grieving Natashina]

eluvianix wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Didn't one of the devs specifically say that fixing the mirror was a "bad call"?
I think it's on the DA2 forums, I remember TEWR and I discussing it...

Well, in Merril's defense, she at least never attempted to sell a slave to a Magister. I'm looking at you, Anders.

It was Mike Laidlaw who said that fixing the mirror was a "bad call". I saw that quite recently, although I can't remember where. Even though Merrill might have repaired the mirror, she couldn't make it work, at least during DA2.

Found it here:

http://ladyinsanity....ioware-pax-east

[*]Mike Laidlaw, Creative Director (DA3): Merrill fixing the mirror was a ‘bad call’

[/list]

[The Hierophant]

Starsyn if playing as a non mage Hawke with Bethany in the CoM, Anders instigates Act 3's conflict knowing full well that Bethany could end up as a casualty. Regardless of anyone's opinion on the matter this clearly shows his complete disregard for Bethany's safety and Hawke's feelings towards his surviving family.

[Jaison1986]

So they say about blowing up the Chantry, or stealing a tome that ultimately triggers an all out war. Merrill surely was not the first companion to make an mistake.

[MisterJB]

Tragic, Merrill's mistakes cost her clan so much. She should have know fixing the mirror was a bad call.